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F&D Defense Ar10????

6.5Madman

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 15, 2017
25
3
ON a Cold Mountain Top.
Has any one had first hand experience with these. Was doing some surfing and see them. Wanting a New AR10 in 6.5CM. The gas system seems great for running suppressed. Just don't want to drop $3k on a gun with out More info, and first hand INFo.

Thanks
Jeff
 
I have been shooting an F & D with both 6.5 and 308 uppers for a couple years now and could not be more pleased. Accuracy, function and fit/finish are all fantastic. I wrote up a substantial review back when I first did a bit of shooting with it and the time since has been just as good...and even better as the 308 upper is ridiculously accurate. Admittedly, as a Jersey resident I do not shoot suppressed, but my understanding from friends who do is that the FD shines there as well.
 
I have been shooting an F & D with both 6.5 and 308 uppers for a couple years now and could not be more pleased. Accuracy, function and fit/finish are all fantastic. I wrote up a substantial review back when I first did a bit of shooting with it and the time since has been just as good...and even better as the 308 upper is ridiculously accurate. Admittedly, as a Jersey resident I do not shoot suppressed, but my understanding from friends who do is that the FD shines there as well.

Thanks,
do you hand load for it, or use Factory ammo?
If you hand load what bullets does it like ? 6.5cm wise that is.
Thanks for the info
 
I have been shooting an F & D with both 6.5 and 308 uppers for a couple years now and could not be more pleased. Accuracy, function and fit/finish are all fantastic. I wrote up a substantial review back when I first did a bit of shooting with it and the time since has been just as good...and even better as the 308 upper is ridiculously accurate. Admittedly, as a Jersey resident I do not shoot suppressed, but my understanding from friends who do is that the FD shines there as well.

Hey, 19Scout77, Do you ever go to Wicens Farm in PA to shoot? I remember I met someone there with some really nice gear, shooting an F&D 308, I may have met you. I was shooting the desert camo REPR, a few lanes over.

I'm also curious about F&D, they look great, especially for the larger bore rifles.

Scott
 
Hey Scott- Yup, that was me. While not the ideal range, Wicen's serves its purpose when we really need a place to shoot!
 
Oh I'd like to write a few pages but I don't have the time. I bought a FD 308 with a 16" barrel at the end of last year. I read every word of their marketing and manual. I was really sold on the gas system and the "infinite adjustability" it supposedly had since I planned on running a TBAC Ultra7 most of the time. I'm really fussy about precision machining so their marketing on their website caught me hook line and sinker.

First thing when I got it I went to cleaning and inspecting just to get familiar with it. My Sinclair bore guide wouldn't fit in the upper. The bore is substantially smaller so I'm guessing they are running a proprietary bolt carrier size. I haven't looked into that one further but I have a feeling they manufactured a lot of the parts a little off standard so you are stuck with them.

Next thing I found I couldn't pull the bolt all the way back to lock with an empty mag in it. LONG story short, the bolt catch was moving up behind the bolt lug and stopping it dead since there wasn't enough angle on the catch - or - it was machined so that it reached an improper position. Their advice was to yank the bolt back harder and/or just shoot it till it breaks in. Well no way in hell I was doing that since I knew this wasn't right and could likely hurt something. I bought a Seekins bolt catch to replace. Wouldn't fit. The slot in the receiver is machined about .010 too small. The Seekins along with other brands I had around all had ramp angles that wouldn't allow this problem to happen. So I remachined the angles on the FD catch and all was fixed there. Silky smooth like you would expect.

As I'm fiddling with this catch and bolt, I see the bolt carrier has tiny little dings all over it. I recognize it as being caused by a tumble deburr operation where too many parts were loaded into the tumbler and all the bolts beat against each other. FD's official response was they are aware of it but most people don't notice it. A subcontractor handled them rough and they couldn't just scrap the batch because of it.

Next, the bolt has areas that are very rough with a pitted like appearance. Particularly so on the lower half of the bolt face. I recognize this as being caused by lack of controls during the heat treat process. No official response from FD on that one. It might have fell in the same category as the bolt carrier.

On to changing the muzzle brake to the TBAC unit. It didn't just break free. It took a good turn before it freed up. After getting it off I saw why. The threads weren't machined far enough in their brake so when they torqued it home it peened the fist thread over on the barrel and now has a sharp burr protruding forward of the crown. UGH!!! You've got to be kidding me! FD's response - complete denial. Just not possible. Must be carbon or something.

So I get everything in good working order and proceed to working up a load. Starting off light and working up. I've got the suppressor on and I figured I'd set the gas to "OFF" till I got it shooting, then work with tuning the gas system. To my surprise, the bolt cycles and locks back in the off position. Every time! (I've got to jump over all the investigating. No time for it now). Summary: The adjustment needle is not machined to seal off the gas when bottomed. When bottomed there is still a large opening at least on the largest gas port position. There are gas sealing rings on each side of the gas ports. The largest of the gas holes, "HIGH" setting, was machined breaking into the gas ring groove so when it's in the "OFF" position where there is no gas hole at all, the gas just travels around the ring groove and through the big hole and cycles the bolt. FD's official response - just shoot it - then crickets.

I've got lots of pics to prove what I'm saying if needed. There are a lot of things that impressed me too. It's a damn shame because I think this design has a lot of potential.


 
Oh I'd like to write a few pages but I don't have the time. I bought a FD 308 with a 16" barrel at the end of last year. I read every word of their marketing and manual. I was really sold on the gas system and the "infinite adjustability" it supposedly had since I planned on running a TBAC Ultra7 most of the time. I'm really fussy about precision machining so their marketing on their website caught me hook line and sinker.

First thing when I got it I went to cleaning and inspecting just to get familiar with it. My Sinclair bore guide wouldn't fit in the upper. The bore is substantially smaller so I'm guessing they are running a proprietary bolt carrier size. I haven't looked into that one further but I have a feeling they manufactured a lot of the parts a little off standard so you are stuck with them.

Next thing I found I couldn't pull the bolt all the way back to lock with an empty mag in it. LONG story short, the bolt catch was moving up behind the bolt lug and stopping it dead since there wasn't enough angle on the catch - or - it was machined so that it reached an improper position. Their advice was to yank the bolt back harder and/or just shoot it till it breaks in. Well no way in hell I was doing that since I knew this wasn't right and could likely hurt something. I bought a Seekins bolt catch to replace. Wouldn't fit. The slot in the receiver is machined about .010 too small. The Seekins along with other brands I had around all had ramp angles that wouldn't allow this problem to happen. So I remachined the angles on the FD catch and all was fixed there. Silky smooth like you would expect.

As I'm fiddling with this catch and bolt, I see the bolt carrier has tiny little dings all over it. I recognize it as being caused by a tumble deburr operation where too many parts were loaded into the tumbler and all the bolts beat against each other. FD's official response was they are aware of it but most people don't notice it. A subcontractor handled them rough and they couldn't just scrap the batch because of it.

Next, the bolt has areas that are very rough with a pitted like appearance. Particularly so on the lower half of the bolt face. I recognize this as being caused by lack of controls during the heat treat process. No official response from FD on that one. It might have fell in the same category as the bolt carrier.

On to changing the muzzle brake to the TBAC unit. It didn't just break free. It took a good turn before it freed up. After getting it off I saw why. The threads weren't machined far enough in their brake so when they torqued it home it peened the fist thread over on the barrel and now has a sharp burr protruding forward of the crown. UGH!!! You've got to be kidding me! FD's response - complete denial. Just not possible. Must be carbon or something.

So I get everything in good working order and proceed to working up a load. Starting off light and working up. I've got the suppressor on and I figured I'd set the gas to "OFF" till I got it shooting, then work with tuning the gas system. To my surprise, the bolt cycles and locks back in the off position. Every time! (I've got to jump over all the investigating. No time for it now). Summary: The adjustment needle is not machined to seal off the gas when bottomed. When bottomed there is still a large opening at least on the largest gas port position. There are gas sealing rings on each side of the gas ports. The largest of the gas holes, "HIGH" setting, was machined breaking into the gas ring groove so when it's in the "OFF" position where there is no gas hole at all, the gas just travels around the ring groove and through the big hole and cycles the bolt. FD's official response - just shoot it - then crickets.

I've got lots of pics to prove what I'm saying if needed. There are a lot of things that impressed me too. It's a damn shame because I think this design has a lot of potential.



Dam. That sucks. I hadn't heard anything but positive thus far.
I guess I'll have to keep searching.
I did find a good write up from the old sight about them.
Seems pretty mixed on reviews
 
Ideal Joe- sorry to hear of your issues. This is the first time I have ever heard of issues with the manufacturing quality. There have been no shortage of personality complaints and commentary related to same from folks with no actual hands on experience...but this is the first time I have heard of a manufacturing issue. All function and related accuracy complaints I have seen reported were resolved favorably.

6.5Madman, I suggest you put your hands on one before you dismiss F & D. Feel free to shoot me a pm and we can take this discussion offline.
 
I too had the same condition with gas off and the gun still cycled, but my experience was suppressed.

That said, the gun shot at 1/2 MOA or better.

Reloads worked best on that gun, as any other anyway.

Great gun and design. Brian was also very good at providing support and info.

Good luck!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ideal Joe- sorry to hear of your issues. This is the first time I have ever heard of issues with the manufacturing quality. There have been no shortage of personality complaints and commentary related to same from folks with no actual hands on experience...but this is the first time I have heard of a manufacturing issue. All function and related accuracy complaints I have seen reported were resolved favorably.

6.5Madman, I suggest you put your hands on one before you dismiss F & D. Feel free to shoot me a pm and we can take this discussion offline.



Im a 8-12 months out on this purchase. I've got lots of time to throughly check them out.
A fellow range member is getting one in the next 2-3 weeks hope to put my hands on it.
 
Got my hands on a 6.5cm 22" F&D yesterday.
Sorry to say I am SOLD‼️‼️‼️
Sorry because it going to cost me $3100 and sorry because it's going to take some time to get the $$$.
Gun shot great less then 3/4 Moa group with factory ammo.
we used Fed. American Eagle 140gr open tip. Not bad for cheaper 6.5cm.
Fit and finish was nice. Smooth as butter action.
this gun had a National Match trigger.

Once we zeroed it it we ran it out to 350yrds, was a chip shoot.
looking at 2-3 weeks to stretch it out to 1k.
so far I like what I say.
 
Some guys will date a bitch if she's a nice piece of arse.

I'm wondering if they may not have new management. Weren't they originally in TX? I see now that they're in OK. Am I remembering that right?
 
I'm wondering if they may not have new management. Weren't they originally in TX? I see now that they're in OK. Am I remembering that right?

My recollection is that Brian was Corby's financial backer and Brian eventually forced Corby out. And isn't Brian now in charge? Assuming folks had them identified correctly in the threads, both were spectacular posters here and appeared to me to be of a like mind. I think the Internet wayback machine has the pages if you are keen to be reminded. A couple of us preserved the PDFs as well. But I'm not inclined to dig through hard drives looking for them as I doubt Frank wants it rehashed here anyway as I think at least one of them threatened the site to have the pages taken down.

IIRC, Corby did, in fact, sue a couple of posters here, and claimed he was the one who did most of the design of LWRC's REPR and/or its predecessor. Which also resulted in litigation. I don't know how any of the litigation played out.

Feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong.
 
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My recollection is that Brian was Corby's financial backer and Brian eventually forced Corby out. And isn't Brian now in charge? Assuming folks had them identified correctly in the threads, both were spectacular posters here and appeared to me to be of a like mind. I think the Internet wayback machine has the pages if you are keen to be reminded. A couple of us preserved the PDFs as well. But I'm not inclined to dig through hard drives looking for them as I doubt Frank wants it rehashed here anyway as I think at least one of them threatened the site to have the pages taken down.

IIRC, Corby did, in fact, sue a couple of posters here, and claimed he was the one who did most of the design of LWRC's REPR and/or its predecessor. Which also resulted in litigation. I don't know how any of the litigation played out.

Feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong.

That sounds about right, and you remembered quite a bit more than I did. There was a point when any thread relating to F&D would be locked and in some cases deleted and anyone posting in those threads faced potential ban IIRC. That's why I was curious if this thread was going to stay up.

Once it had run for a bit with no Moderator intervention I figured things had calmed down a bit.

All that BS could've been settled if Corey or whoever had shot Lowlight's challenge
 
I think it went beyond a shooting challenge. If I remember correctly there were a lot of claims, counterclaims, and severe insults. Websites and their owners sure don't need litigation. The process becomes the punishment. I don't fault Frank for not wanting to deal with it.
 
I think it went beyond a shooting challenge. If I remember correctly there were a lot of claims, counterclaims, and severe insults. Websites and their owners sure don't need litigation. The process becomes the punishment. I don't fault Frank for not wanting to deal with it.

Agreed. Once it reached full-retard I really kind of avoided the threads and apparently missed some of the worst of it.

At the end of the day, whether it's TR, or F&D, or a few of the others that I can't remember, it all comes down to the product and the guy who buys one. If it's a good product made by an asshole then what does it really matter. If it's a shitty product and the company decides to start suing people into silence rather than fixing the problem then of course that's something entirely different.

I really hope hope that the F&Ds are solid rifles now and the guys who buy them have nothing but happy bugholes.
 
Madman did you buy an F&D? Which one? Whadda think now???? How did the long range trial go?

I am pretty sure I'm going to buy one. I have one headed this way to try. Brian suggested the same ammo you used Madman. Have a case coming....

My primary use will be long range. Have a bolt gun in 260 Remington & 300WM that I have been shooting out to 1200, 1300 this Saturday. I want to see how it keeps up.

Plan is to shoot a few groups at 100 then go to steel at 300, 500, 800, 1050, and 1200.

Except for the one well written comment here by someone who knows their way around a machine shop, I have only heard good things about the product. Like Bogeybrown said I also don't care about personalities, I want the best rifle I can purchase for the best price.

I have been dealing with Brian and he is outstanding! Lots of emails and a long phone call. I was never hurried and all my questions were fully answered.

If you are interested I will let you know how the F&D shoots in 6.5.

Thanks,
Steve