F T/R Competition F-T/R Rules questions?

[QuietShootr]

These are just hypothetical questions, no similarity to actual persons or events are implied.

1) Dude cuts a long chamber for his .308 so he can use unbelievably long COALs to shoot heavier bullets with more powder. Legal in F/TR?

2) Dude builds a custom rifle with said chamber on a custom action that requires the bolt to be completely pulled out to load or extract a fired case. Legal in F/TR, or no?

3) Dude goes to a declared State F-T/R match in a state that he doesn't live in. Can Dude be declared a winner of the match, or is he ineligible for the actual win - IOW, is he posted as "High score" but not the match winner, since he is not from the state the match was declared in?

 

[Denys]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

1- Yes. (Lots of F-T/R shooters use very long bullets, especially at long range.)

2- Yes. (It won't be good for keeping position or fast shooting as conditions warrant.)

3- Yes, but. The dude will be the match winner but there may be some clubs that also keep track of member achievements and only members may be recognized as "club champions."

 

[ryanjay11]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

1) The throat can be as long as you want. The body must be a standard 223 or 308.

2) That would be a huge disadvantage. Why would anyone do that?

3) It depends on the State sanctioning body. At the Missouri Championship, we gave out plaques for High Score and the high residents attend a later banquet to collect the State Champion plaque.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

I see no reason that #1 and #2 would be a problem. I need to pull the bolt on my short action 7WSM to remove a loaded round from the rifle. No one blinks if I done so.

without going and checking, I do not recall anything in the rules that limits COAL of a specific chamber design. the TR limitation is, in part, based upon the cartridge, but I do not recall anyone ever attempting to push one of my .308s into an AI Magazine to make sure it was only 2.86" COAL.

If memory serves palma or something similar was the only discipline that used to requires a specific chamber design. I recall they also used to issue ammunition to the competitors.

JEffvn

 

[XTR]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

As stated above n the case of No's 1 and 2 as long as the chamber is w/i SAAMI spec for a 308 case you can cut the neck as long as you want. No 308AIs or any other blown out chamber sizes allowed.

In the case of #3, I took home the TN F-TR championship plaque at the ORSA State Championship shoot last yr but was actually the second highest score. The actual match high score was a guy from Alabama.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

Quiet,

1. As has been mentioned before, the limitation is on the case itself. I, and others will be checking random fired cases to ensure that they fit in a standard .308 case gauge to ensure that no "custom .308" chambers make their way on to the line. For right now though, extending the throat is legal. I will be proposing rule changes in the next year to cap bullet weight for F-T/R to 201 grains, this should also put a cap on how long people can legitimately throat their chambers.

2. I have run some of the heaviest .308 bullets out there, I've never come close to having to remove the bolt in order to chamber a round. To remove it again, with the case head secured in the extractor, is a different story. Having to unload a live round is fairly unusual, that shouldn't be a problem to remove the bolt. Having to completely re-arrange your position between every shot to LOAD, would not be an accuracy aid.

3. Awarding an out-of-state person the 'Match Winner' title, and then awarding a native the 'State Champion' title is not that unusual

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If memory serves palma or something similar was the only discipline that used to requires a specific chamber design. I recall they also used to issue ammunition to the competitors.
JEffvn </div></div>

This was primarily to ensure that chambers of Palma shooters that would possibly be traveling to Bisley, England to shoot would not have problems with the "Bisley 150 Rule", which essentially attempted to compensate for rather unpredictable quality/dimensions of the RG issued ammo that was prevalent at the time. That manufacturer of issued ammo is long gone, but the rule persists.

Hope this helps,

Darrell

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quiet,

1. As has been mentioned before, the limitation is on the case itself. I, and others will be checking random fired cases to ensure that they fit in a standard .308 case gauge to ensure that no "custom .308" chambers make their way on to the line. For right now though, extending the throat is legal. I will be proposing rule changes in the next year to cap bullet weight for F-T/R to 201 grains, this should also put a cap on how long people can legitimately throat their chambers.

2. I have run some of the heaviest .308 bullets out there, I've never come close to having to remove the bolt in order to chamber a round. To remove it again, with the case head secured in the extractor, is a different story. Having to unload a live round is fairly unusual, that shouldn't be a problem to remove the bolt. Having to completely re-arrange your position between every shot to LOAD, would not be an accuracy aid.

3. Awarding an out-of-state person the 'Match Winner' title, and then awarding a native the 'State Champion' title is not that unusual.

Hope this helps,

Darrell
</div></div>

Helps a lot.

As to the case limitation, I suppose it depends on how you read both Section 22s, but <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> would read it that if I can't drop your round into a USGI chambered 7.62mm rifle and close the bolt on it, you're wrong (taking out the sizing issue, I mean. Obviously neck sizing only would usually prohibit actually doing that.)

As to why someone would do that with a rifle, I expect it's because (I did not look closely at this hypothetical gun) the action is tubular with no ejection port. To me (and everyone else's mileage may and probably will vary) a gun like that is a game gun and belongs in F-Open, regardless of its chambering. I know that's going to be an unpopular view, but IMO F-T/R should be for practical field rifles.

Questions were answered, though. That's what I needed to know. Thanks so much.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuietShootr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that's going to be an unpopular view, but IMO F-T/R should be for practical field rifles.</div></div>

I can understand the feeling behind this, but at the end of the day, it's a balancing act. The target we run is a small one, and whereas it's *possible* to do with a 24" barreled (with muzzle break) rifle with magazine fed rounds, with a folding-style "tacti-cool" bipod, it is a lot more difficult. I've done it, against some National class F-T/R shooters with their 'race' F-T/R rifles, and done pretty well, but the point remains, it is a lot harder.

What we have to balance is keeping guys able to tweak and innovate (within bounds intended to keep F-T/R from turning into F-Open-lite), basically: indulge their passion for extreme precision, while keeping the game 'limited' enough that it remains a shooter vs. shooter competition primarily.

My vision of F-T/R has always been that you should be able to bring a 'more or less' factory rifle to the range, and with GOOD quality handloads, be very competitive if you know what the wind is doing. To that end, I (and the rest of the Team Savage guys) have been running bone stock production rifles for the past 6+ years now. I've tested a bunch of bullet weights, but at least for right now, my go-to competition load is a *fast* 155.5 grain bullet (~3125 fps).

Even there, my 155.5 handloads won't fit in a magazine, and that is in a factory chambered rifle (jumping ~.025"). By giving folks a limited range to innovate, you keep the sport interesting, but not too expensive, thus attendance keeps growing.

Darrell

 

[RStewart]

Re: F-T/R Rules questions?

In Louisiana, we do not require the State Match winner to be a resident. The F-TR champion last year was from Mississippi. The trophy goes to the best overall shooter.