I have a friend that wants to shoot with me and we are interested in shooting F T/R team matches. Is there such a thing? If so, how does it work? I'm new to this sport so I apologize if this is a dumb question or asked on the daily. TIA
F T/R Competition F T/R Team matches?
- Thread starter BigtimeAub
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Re: F T/R Team matches?
yes were shooting team matches this next week at the SOA. They are also shooting some in Lodi in a week or 2
yes were shooting team matches this next week at the SOA. They are also shooting some in Lodi in a week or 2
Re: F T/R Team matches?
Generally... or at least around here (PNW) there aren't very many F-class team matches. Not so much because of a lack of venues, but just can't get people together to shoot in them. Part of the reason I ended up shooting with the guys on Team Savage was because I couldn't scrape together enough people in Washington interested to form one team, much less two so there'd be competition. But, we have to start some where...
Usually you'll be shooting along side the Palma/sling shooters in their team matches. Depending on the range/tournament, you may shoot the whole match (different yard lines and all) one day between or after the individual stages, or you might shoot one yard line per day (again, after the individual matches).
The teams are usually four-person teams. You get a pretty long block of time for all four shooters to fire their shots at a given yard line, and if there is no pit service, there should be an organized pit change period as well. Assuming there *is* pit service for the team match (fairly common), your team gets something like an hour and a half (varies) to get all four shooters thru, two sighters and how ever many shots for record each. Plenty of time.
What we (Team Savage) usually do is have one person act as primary wind coach. They shoot first, so they don't have to move around and lose track of the conditions there after. Someone acts as 'coach' for the first shooter, sitting up in a chair with a spotting scope to one side of the shooter. The next shooter is 'on deck', set up on the other side of the coach. Often your team has to provide a 'register keeper' or 'check scorer' for another team (i.e. so you don't end up keeping your own score and conveniently winning... though local matches will often skip that formality).
We cycle thru the shooters fairly quickly, though we have the option to hold up and wait if the conditions get just completely weird out there. Usually the team has a pre-agreed-upon code for wind corrections... calling the edge of the x-ring @ 3 o'clock as 'one right', 10-ring @ 9 o'clock as 'two left', etc. seems to work pretty well and is simple enough to keep everybody on the same page. If there is a need for a large base windage correction, the coach will tell you 'put 6 minutes left on the scope/gun', and then give you hold-offs as previously described.
Depending on the individuals involved, you may want to go thru a formal cadence... 'Target One Six... one and a half left... send it.' Whether you have the shooter repeat back the target number and hold-off before you say 'send it' to make sure he's actually paying attention and/or heard you is up to you. After the shot, its *critical* the shooter give the coach accurate feedback, whether its 'one and a half left, waterline' or 'broke closer to two left, little high @ 10 o'clock' or 'I lost focus and can't say exactly where it broke'. *Accurate* feedback is the key, not telling the coach what you think he wants to hear to keep him from getting mad at you. Most coaches I know would rather you admit you didn't break the shot clean than tell them lies - they can work around the first, the latter just screws everybody.
Most coaches that are used to sling shooters expect a 3-8 second delay between 'send it' and the shot going down range - enough time for them to say 'hold up' if they see a sudden change. Most coaches that are used to F-class shooters expect that when they say 'send it', the shot is gone within 1-3 seconds tops. Often our sequence goes like 'Half right - Bang!' because the shooter and coach are seeing the same thing, and the shooter was already holding somewhere between the center and the right edge of the X-ring and had taken up the majority of the trigger weight in anticipation. If the coach instead said 'Three left'... the shooter would have to relax the trigger, shift his aim, check his breathing, and start over on the trigger... which takes several seconds... by which time the coach is thinking 'Hurry up already!' but breaking a clean shot if you can, and then giving accurate feedback on where the shot broke, take priority over breaking the shot RIGHT NOW.
Anywho, probably way overkill
Find a couple-three friends, find a match that has a team stage to it, enter and shoot. Even if you're the only F-class team, or even if you have to shoot half F and half sling, and shooting only for the heck of it... shooting coached is very very educational. First, if you are a new shooter, seeing where the coach would have you hold and the bullet going in the middle teaches you a *lot* about wind reading. Second, shooting in a coached environment, where you are simply a human gun platform, with no other job than to break the most perfect shot you possibly can, and the whole wind reading mess is off-loaded to someone else's brain... its absolutely amazing sometimes how much your vertical on the target may shrink. Third, if you get stuck coaching
you gain a whole new appreciation for the art. Finally, if you're an experienced shooter and get a newbie wind coach giving you funky calls... you get a lesson in patience as you put them where you're told
Go do it and have some fun!
Generally... or at least around here (PNW) there aren't very many F-class team matches. Not so much because of a lack of venues, but just can't get people together to shoot in them. Part of the reason I ended up shooting with the guys on Team Savage was because I couldn't scrape together enough people in Washington interested to form one team, much less two so there'd be competition. But, we have to start some where...
Usually you'll be shooting along side the Palma/sling shooters in their team matches. Depending on the range/tournament, you may shoot the whole match (different yard lines and all) one day between or after the individual stages, or you might shoot one yard line per day (again, after the individual matches).
The teams are usually four-person teams. You get a pretty long block of time for all four shooters to fire their shots at a given yard line, and if there is no pit service, there should be an organized pit change period as well. Assuming there *is* pit service for the team match (fairly common), your team gets something like an hour and a half (varies) to get all four shooters thru, two sighters and how ever many shots for record each. Plenty of time.
What we (Team Savage) usually do is have one person act as primary wind coach. They shoot first, so they don't have to move around and lose track of the conditions there after. Someone acts as 'coach' for the first shooter, sitting up in a chair with a spotting scope to one side of the shooter. The next shooter is 'on deck', set up on the other side of the coach. Often your team has to provide a 'register keeper' or 'check scorer' for another team (i.e. so you don't end up keeping your own score and conveniently winning... though local matches will often skip that formality).
We cycle thru the shooters fairly quickly, though we have the option to hold up and wait if the conditions get just completely weird out there. Usually the team has a pre-agreed-upon code for wind corrections... calling the edge of the x-ring @ 3 o'clock as 'one right', 10-ring @ 9 o'clock as 'two left', etc. seems to work pretty well and is simple enough to keep everybody on the same page. If there is a need for a large base windage correction, the coach will tell you 'put 6 minutes left on the scope/gun', and then give you hold-offs as previously described.
Depending on the individuals involved, you may want to go thru a formal cadence... 'Target One Six... one and a half left... send it.' Whether you have the shooter repeat back the target number and hold-off before you say 'send it' to make sure he's actually paying attention and/or heard you is up to you. After the shot, its *critical* the shooter give the coach accurate feedback, whether its 'one and a half left, waterline' or 'broke closer to two left, little high @ 10 o'clock' or 'I lost focus and can't say exactly where it broke'. *Accurate* feedback is the key, not telling the coach what you think he wants to hear to keep him from getting mad at you. Most coaches I know would rather you admit you didn't break the shot clean than tell them lies - they can work around the first, the latter just screws everybody.
Most coaches that are used to sling shooters expect a 3-8 second delay between 'send it' and the shot going down range - enough time for them to say 'hold up' if they see a sudden change. Most coaches that are used to F-class shooters expect that when they say 'send it', the shot is gone within 1-3 seconds tops. Often our sequence goes like 'Half right - Bang!' because the shooter and coach are seeing the same thing, and the shooter was already holding somewhere between the center and the right edge of the X-ring and had taken up the majority of the trigger weight in anticipation. If the coach instead said 'Three left'... the shooter would have to relax the trigger, shift his aim, check his breathing, and start over on the trigger... which takes several seconds... by which time the coach is thinking 'Hurry up already!' but breaking a clean shot if you can, and then giving accurate feedback on where the shot broke, take priority over breaking the shot RIGHT NOW.
Anywho, probably way overkill
Find a couple-three friends, find a match that has a team stage to it, enter and shoot. Even if you're the only F-class team, or even if you have to shoot half F and half sling, and shooting only for the heck of it... shooting coached is very very educational. First, if you are a new shooter, seeing where the coach would have you hold and the bullet going in the middle teaches you a *lot* about wind reading. Second, shooting in a coached environment, where you are simply a human gun platform, with no other job than to break the most perfect shot you possibly can, and the whole wind reading mess is off-loaded to someone else's brain... its absolutely amazing sometimes how much your vertical on the target may shrink. Third, if you get stuck coaching
Go do it and have some fun!
Re: F T/R Team matches?
Thanks for the detailed explanation. You actually answered much more than what I was asking, but definitely brought way more to my attention than I actually knew to ask for. Very much appreciated.
I am the Vice President of the Auburn Shooting Club at Auburn University. We are trying to put together a few teams for different matches.
We could use all the help that we could possibly get. We are a brand new organization on campus but already have a pretty strong level of interest. If there is anything else that you could help us out with, we would most greatly appreciate it. Mostly, we need direction and understanding most of all. We've got several ranges around to compete at.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. You actually answered much more than what I was asking, but definitely brought way more to my attention than I actually knew to ask for. Very much appreciated.
I am the Vice President of the Auburn Shooting Club at Auburn University. We are trying to put together a few teams for different matches.
We could use all the help that we could possibly get. We are a brand new organization on campus but already have a pretty strong level of interest. If there is anything else that you could help us out with, we would most greatly appreciate it. Mostly, we need direction and understanding most of all. We've got several ranges around to compete at.
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