Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

D

DUCKSHOT

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Mar 30, 2009
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#1
I apologize if the question has been asked before.
I would like to get an accurate .308 (AR TYPE) rifle and have been looking at the Precision AR-10 but whats the MOA difference I will see between the GAP rifle and a factory .308 rifle? I thought I used to see .5 MOA with the rifle at GAP but don't see it now.
I want the best but if most shots will be less than 500 meters then do I really need the GAP rifle for that distance or will I still hit my target?
So does anyone know the MOA difference between a Factory .308 vs GAP.
I will be new to long range shooting (over 100 meters) so whats ya'lls thoughts?
$1,000 vs $2,450 is a big difference!
 
#2
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

I bet the GAP is sweet, but be prepared to wait- probably about 1 year. I called them the other day and asked. I am getting a POF, but it seems like Noveske is another good choice that is available. There are other custom ar-10 builders out there.

This one guarantees 1/2moa-

http://www.extremefirepower.com/rs.html

disclaimer- I know nothing about this company. I spoke with the owner the other day. He seemed very knowledgeable and easy going.
 
#4
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

I am really not trying to be a Smart a$$ but Can you shoot well enough, especially an AR platform to Distinguish between a $1000.00 and a $2450.00 rifle? More often than not it is a very small line and many a $ have been spent in vain.

That extra $ will provide a lot of glass and powder.

If I miss steel @ 500 with my DPMS Lr 308 it is my fault...every time. But the same is true with my GAP or My Patriot Arms Or TRG or Preadator Arms or the Bartline Build.....Just Say'n
 
#5
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really not trying to be a Smart a$$ but Can you shoot well enough, especially an AR platform to Distinguish between a $1000.00 and a $2450.00 rifle? More often than not it is a very small line and many a $ have been spent in vain.

That extra $ will provide a lot of glass and powder.

If I miss steel @ 500 with my DPMS Lr 308 it is my fault...every time. But the same is true with my GAP or My Patriot Arms Or TRG or Preadator Arms or the Bartline Build.....Just Say'n


</div></div>

Like I said, "it will be my first long range rifle" but I do know the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and I am by no means a sniper.
What I would like to know is whats the difference at 100 meters with each rifle with the average shooter.
 
#6
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

Stick with the bolt gun and get the AR10 later. Develope some marksmanship skills and then determine what best fits you.

Rich
 
#7
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

As an average shooter you wont be up the the level that a DPMS of other off the shelf brand is capable of. Besides that you can get the gun shoot it until you learn it and get to the potential that the rifle is capable of. When you get to that point you'll have a pretty good idea of what you like and dont like and what you'll want and dont want.

Then you can get a hold of GAP APA or any other custom builder you want and have them turm your rifle into what you'll want.

JMC
 
#8
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUCKSHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really not trying to be a Smart a$$ but Can you shoot well enough, especially an AR platform to Distinguish between a $1000.00 and a $2450.00 rifle? More often than not it is a very small line and many a $ have been spent in vain.

That extra $ will provide a lot of glass and powder.

If I miss steel @ 500 with my DPMS Lr 308 it is my fault...every time. But the same is true with my GAP or My Patriot Arms Or TRG or Preadator Arms or the Bartline Build.....Just Say'n


</div></div>

Like I said, "<span style="color: #CC0000">it will be my first long range rifle</span>" but I do know the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and I am by no means a sniper.
What I would like to know is whats the difference at 100 meters with each rifle with the average shooter. </div></div>


Try this and save money and head aches for your first rig.

Remington SPS Tactical 308 Black Hogue Stock 20" Heavy Barrel Price: $629.99
http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700842073.html

NightForce Remington 700 One-Piece 20MOA Base $114.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-remington-700-20moa-one-piece-bases.html

NightForce ULTRALITE 30mm Titanium / Alloy Ring Set $152.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-ultralite-30mm-titanium-alloy-ring-set.html

SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope (HD model) $799.95
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P42527.aspx

So there ya go...... For $1,695.94 you have a complete package that I'm more than sure will be a great shooter.
 
#10
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stick with the bolt gun and get the AR10 later. Develope some marksmanship skills and then determine what best fits you.

Rich </div></div>

Like I said, I have basic marksmanship skills but never tried a shot that far yet. I would like to have the ability for multiple and faster target acquisition so that's why I think that the AR10 is the way. I have also read that if you don't have a spotter an AR10 makes it easier.
I know a bolt gun is more accurate but I have and AR15 and love it.
 
#11
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adjuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUCKSHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really not trying to be a Smart a$$ but Can you shoot well enough, especially an AR platform to Distinguish between a $1000.00 and a $2450.00 rifle? More often than not it is a very small line and many a $ have been spent in vain.

That extra $ will provide a lot of glass and powder.

If I miss steel @ 500 with my DPMS Lr 308 it is my fault...every time. But the same is true with my GAP or My Patriot Arms Or TRG or Preadator Arms or the Bartline Build.....Just Say'n


</div></div>

Like I said, "<span style="color: #CC0000">it will be my first long range rifle</span>" but I do know the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and I am by no means a sniper.
What I would like to know is whats the difference at 100 meters with each rifle with the average shooter. </div></div>


Try this and save money and head aches for your first rig.

Remington SPS Tactical 308 Black Hogue Stock 20" Heavy Barrel Price: $629.99
http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700842073.html

NightForce Remington 700 One-Piece 20MOA Base $114.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-remington-700-20moa-one-piece-bases.html

NightForce ULTRALITE 30mm Titanium / Alloy Ring Set $152.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-ultralite-30mm-titanium-alloy-ring-set.html

SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope (HD model) $799.95
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P42527.aspx

So there ya go...... For $1,695.94 you have a complete package that I'm more than sure will be a great shooter. </div></div>

I would take his advice, that package will get you a great starting point. Shoot as much as possible and get familiar.

Excellent rifles don't make excellent shooters, excellent shooters make excellent rifles.
 
#13
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

the gas guns take a lot of skill to shoot well, and consistently well. There are more variables, as well as recoil impulses to worry about. I ran two GAP AR10s, as well as a factory Amalite AR10T, I put in my trigger time, and competed with them. After the smoke cleared I had learned a lot, and realized in the world of competitive long range shooting, the bolt gun has the edge, accuracy and reliability. The bolt gun is far more forgiving if your not on your game.

If your planing on running a AR10, GAP is the choice IMO

Kirk R
 
#14
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

I had a Armalite AR10 that had a few upgrades in a match trigger and ss match barrel. It (I) shot MOA with it on most days.

I don't know what you are going to be using it for, but those things add up quick with weight. As long as you aren't lugging it all over the country side, they sure are fun.
 
#16
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adjuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUCKSHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really not trying to be a Smart a$$ but Can you shoot well enough, especially an AR platform to Distinguish between a $1000.00 and a $2450.00 rifle? More often than not it is a very small line and many a $ have been spent in vain.

That extra $ will provide a lot of glass and powder.

If I miss steel @ 500 with my DPMS Lr 308 it is my fault...every time. But the same is true with my GAP or My Patriot Arms Or TRG or Preadator Arms or the Bartline Build.....Just Say'n


</div></div>

Like I said, "<span style="color: #CC0000">it will be my first long range rifle</span>" but I do know the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and I am by no means a sniper.
What I would like to know is whats the difference at 100 meters with each rifle with the average shooter. </div></div>


Try this and save money and head aches for your first rig.

Remington SPS Tactical 308 Black Hogue Stock 20" Heavy Barrel Price: $629.99
http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700842073.html

NightForce Remington 700 One-Piece 20MOA Base $114.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-remington-700-20moa-one-piece-bases.html

NightForce ULTRALITE 30mm Titanium / Alloy Ring Set $152.00
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-ultralite-30mm-titanium-alloy-ring-set.html

SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope (HD model) $799.95
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P42527.aspx

So there ya go...... For $1,695.94 you have a complete package that I'm more than sure will be a great shooter. </div></div>

I would rather stick with the gas gun but if I did go to a bolt gun then whats the differnce between the
Remington SPS Tactical and the Remington 700 LTR?
 
#17
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KRock459</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the gas guns take a lot of skill to shoot well, and consistently well. There are more variables, as well as recoil impulses to worry about. I ran two GAP AR10s, as well as a factory Amalite AR10T, I put in my trigger time, and competed with them. After the smoke cleared I had learned a lot, and realized in the world of competitive long range shooting, the bolt gun has the edge, accuracy and reliability. The bolt gun is far more forgiving if your not on your game.

If your planing on running a AR10, GAP is the choice IMO

Kirk R </div></div>

What can I read to learn about the variables and recoil impulses you mentioned? I know the farther out my target is the better off I'll be with a bolt gun but how far off where you shooting with the gas gun? Like I said I'm looking at about 500 meters.
I guess I should also mention I was planning on using my current AR15 with a dedicated .22lr upper as a trainer. I do know that some folks don't believe in trainers, it's all about using the same rifle NO TRAINER.
 
#18
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

Thats a reasonable question bro, do not know why folks can not just answer your question instead of trying to guess what they "think" you really meant.....

I do not know this firsthand myself so:

1) If you own a stock DPMS or AR10 what typical groups do you get at 100 yards with match ammo?

2) If you own a GA or APA class DPMS or AR10 what typical groups do you get at 100 yards with match ammo?

3) If you do not have first hand knowledge of either #1 or #2, please leave space for those that do.....
 
#19
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

First off, I would think it appropriate to be a bit more accurate with your price range. Figure around 1400 for a base ar-10 vs. the 2500 for the Gap. With that having been said, I would without a doubt buy the stock version and spend the rest of your money on a course at a quality shooting school. You are in Texas, so go to Rifles Only. A stock heavy barrel DPMS/ar-10 should get you at a minimum 1.5 moa with the right ammo combo. More than likely, it will be 1.25 moa or better. Nothing wrong with this at all.

Assuming you can drive it, the gap is every bit as accurate as everyone here claims them to be. IE 1/2 inch 5 shot groups "All Day Long" as the saying goes. Of course with such an accurate system, it is difficult to come up with good excuses for the uninitiated observers when you are getting freaking owned by a complex wind problem on a 2moa target @ 600. Ah, the good times...

Good luck with you choice.
 
#20
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

If you want an AR platform rifle it is pretty hard to beat a DPMS LR308. They are an excellent performer especially at their price point, put a decent trigger in them and they become even better.
 
#21
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

I agree with the "go out and shoot" principle, but it sounds like you want a gas gun. If that's the case, spend money wisely, ONCE!.

TOP 7.62 AR'S.....my opinion...and not in any order of better/worse,

GA Precision
Knights Armament
Iron Ridge Arms
Noveske

YMMV. S/F Jeff
 
#22
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I had a Armalite AR10 that had a few upgrades in a match trigger and ss match barrel.</span> It (I) shot MOA with it on most days.

I don't know what you are going to be using it for, but those things add up quick with weight. As long as you aren't lugging it all over the country side, they sure are fun. </div></div>

That's exactly what GAP recommended as upgrades to my stock AR10A4B. And yeah, they're a lot of fun as long as you're not packing them... heavy as hell. Honestly, if you think you want an AR10, I'd buy one stock, shoot the heck out of it until you can't shoot it any better, and then send it to GAP for upgrades.


Edited to add: IIRC, I thought GAP was guaranteeing 3/4 MOA from the AR10 platforms... but I could be wrong.
 
#23
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

I have owned them all, I owned a GAP AR-10, 2- Armalite AR-10's T's, a DPMS 24" gun, a JP LR, and 2- Noveske .308's I can say for me personally, like someone else stated semis are hard to drive well all the time. At least for me. I mean Every one of them above could shot 1/2 moa, if I was dead on with my technique. If not, they turned into 1 moa guns. Like another person stated, a bolt gun is more forgiving. I can shoot all my bolt guns 1/2 moa consistantely.

The GAP, Noveske and JP rifles were more accurate then the others, however unless you are very good at shooting gas guns you could potentially not notice much of a difference. Hope that makes sense. Its still early!

I would get a stock DPMS or AR-10 T, and shoot it for awhile then upgrade later if you decide to. Espically if you are shooting at 600 and under. A 6" group at 600 yds is still great. Is a 3 1/2- 4" group better.... yeh but unless you are shooting comps what is the difference in practical accuracy. My 2 cents.
 
#24
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have owned them all, I owned a GAP AR-10, 2- Armalite AR-10's T's, a DPMS 24" gun, a JP LR, and 2- Noveske .308's I can say for me personally, like someone else stated semis are hard to drive well all the time. At least for me. I mean Every one of them above could shot 1/2 moa, if I was dead on with my technique. If not, they turned into 1 moa guns. Like another person stated, a bolt gun is more forgiving. I can shoot all my bolt guns 1/2 moa consistantely.

The GAP, Noveske and JP rifles were more accurate then the others, however unless you are very good at shooting gas guns you could potentially not notice much of a difference. Hope that makes sense. Its still early!

I would get a stock DPMS or AR-10 T, and shoot it for awhile then upgrade later if you decide to. Espically if you are shooting at 600 and under. A 6" group at 600 yds is still great. Is a 3 1/2- 4" group better.... yeh but unless you are shooting comps what is the difference in practical accuracy. My 2 cents. </div></div>

Thanks alot for the reply, this is exactly what I'm going to do. I will however contact GAP and see if they recommend a specific model from DPMS that they find easier to modify or if it matters.
If anyone could mention some good reading for shooting AR10 at long distcances I would appreciate it!
 
#25
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

Resurrecting because I'm in a similar boat: happy with bolt, but want a semi. My budget dictates the DPMS, but I cringe thinking about sub-standard parts or reliability issues. I'm sure it is more accurate than I, but I'd hate to buy it, then have to ship it back to the factory (or to GAP) to get it tuned right. Then again spending twice as much for a GAP build makes me think again about the FNAR...Any issues out there with stock DPMS 308s?
 
#27
Re: Factory AR10 or other .308 VS GA Precision AR1

I wouldn't get an FNAR. Have a buddy with one and it just plain doesn't want to shoot well for him. Not a lot of aftermarket parts for them either.
I have a LR-308 with a JP muzzle brake that GAP installed for me. Darn rifle shoots sub 3/4 moa with 10 shot groups with the occasional 1/2 moa group for 5 rounds and this is with Fed GMM 175 ammo. Believe me, run the Magpul mags - they function flawlessly. I used to be a LR-308 skeptic until I owned one, for $1000 it is a bargain and a half. Shoot the heck out of it then go re-barrel it with a barrel from GAP or Chanlynn or ?
 
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