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Fat Leonard... Maybe this is why our ships keep getting rammed?

sirhrmechanic

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 23, 2010
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The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N
#1
In case everyone missed it due to the fake news and gushing over the latest Hollywood starlet...

The Navy released the results of the ship ramming investigations. In both cases, called them 'avoidable' and blamed training and failure to adhere to procedure. No doubt, this is going to throw lots of junior officers and NCO's under the bus... while the Admirals polish their chairs with their butts and say "But we told them to train...." Conspiracy theorists will still say that "this is what the report would read if the Chinese were driving our ships with Nintendo-controllers and playing Bumper Cars with them... so I won't go there.)

But perhaps instead of turning PacFlt into a giant Manilla-on-shore-leave Kegger.... the Admirals and flag officers should have been, I dunno, being professional Navy Officers? Then again, they probably all got their flags and promotions for giving the right answer to litmus test questions like "Are you ok with gay sailors?" and "Will you have women on your Seal teams?"

Meh, probably all fake news... It is the Washington Post after all...

How many sailors died in those two incidents while the brass hats were partying?

Sirhr
 
#2
Hard to make even the most remote connection between logistics-related embezzlement/corruption and deckplate operational fuckups.

Try again
 
#4
It may be a stretch to go from "pay to play" to "failure to navigate" but its all part and parcel of the rot in the system resulting from the general lack of accountability starting from on high "trickling down" through us all creating a general consensus of "Fuck it, look what that mother fuckers doing!"

Our entire society sees this going on and with no good structural example to follow it does not bode well that the next generational period is going to be a good one.
 
#6
pmclaine said:
its all part and parcel of the rot in the system resulting from the general lack of accountability starting from on high "trickling down" through us all creating a general consensus of "Fuck it, look what that mother fuckers doing!"
Click to expand...
I can see that, yes
 
#7
well after the bergdahl sentencing.....or lack thereof....expect the decline of the military even further. trump needs to collect some heads and remove a whole bunch of shitbirds and bring accountablity back. until that happens, get ready for more of the same.

but on the upside.....i see the american people more ready than i ever have seen before in my life. there are still a good many sheep, but i seem more and more folks waking the fuck up.
 
#9
myronman3 said:
well after the bergdahl sentencing.....or lack thereof....expect the decline of the military even further. trump needs to collect some heads and remove a whole bunch of shitbirds and bring accountablity back. until that happens, get ready for more of the same.

but on the upside.....i see the american people more ready than i ever have seen before in my life. there are still a good many sheep, but i seem more and more folks waking the fuck up.
Click to expand...

We tend to stay too close to our own.

There are still a great lot that have their heads up their ass.

On Halloween night I walked with my son, his friend and friends Dad. Friends Dad is a good guy. He is smart and a hard worker. He is the "me" of about 15 years ago - informed but not understanding.

Anyway we picked up another friend and his parents as we walked. Dad of the new friend was dressed in orange jump suit, orange wig and MAGA hat. First friends dad said great costume. I said nothing but the contractor hat in multicam with Velcro US flag on front DTOM banner in back should have indicated my position except as in their ignorance of reality they would be ignorant to my details.

How do they have the ignorance in light of all that has happened in the last two weeks to think it possible Trump would be in the jumpsuit and not some democrat of the many to choose from that should be in jail.

The mom of my sons friend is a very nice women but ubersheltered. stay at home Mom that does charitable work to occupy herself. She got a big kick out of the Trump costume. I could sense the anger from people incapable of getting slightly miffed at much more obscene crimes committed or allowed to be committed by libs.

They have full confidence that government will protect them, no idea that MS13 members live illegally within 15 miles of the house and for fun they chop up people with machetes yet Trump is bad for wanting to enforce the law.

Do they not see how this ends?

I think their fear has captured them and willful ignorance is their defence.

Im with them I have the same fear. The difference is I realize that what I fear will only get worse if not confronted now.
 
#10
I really think the Navy is going about this all wrong. The personnel responsible should take a rip, but not have their careers ended over it. I'm guessing they are the last fucking people who will have ANOTHER collision. The learning value of a fuckup cannot be overestimated, as many of us know first hand.

Keep the sailors, and make them guest speakers at OCS, Command School, wherever seamanship and navigation are taught. Put them in charge of safety or whatever. The guy who taught pursuit driving in my police academy was assigned because he'd wrecked more cop cars in more creative ways than pretty much anyone else. He'd learned most of the ways to do something "wrong" so he taught us how to do it "right".
 
#11
Agree, Bogey. The problem, IMHO, is not with the sailors or Jr. officers. But with a command structure that spent more time training on diversity and which bathrooms to use, instead of how to drive ships, shoot guns and kill enemies.

Hyman Rickover, who was truly a SOB from what I understand, used to say that there is no job too small and that everything required perfection. The smallest detail. Whether sweeping the floor of an office, or welding a reactor. No officer or sailor on 'his' subs or in his commands and nuclear engineering program could be allowed to overlook anything. And he was ruthless with shortcomings. The nuc Navy didn't have a perfect operational record... but damn sure that they did a lot of dangerous stuff and made it home! Because noone was allowed to go lax for a moment.

I sure hope that Mattis is not overwhelmed undoing the giant mongassa knot left behind for him... by the complete idiots who recently sat in his chair.

Sirhr
 
#13
sirhrmechanic said:
Hyman Rickover, who was truly a SOB from what I understand, used to say that there is no job too small and that everything required perfection. The smallest detail. Whether sweeping the floor of an office, or welding a reactor. No officer or sailor on 'his' subs or in his commands and nuclear engineering program could be allowed to overlook anything. And he was ruthless with shortcomings. The nuc Navy didn't have a perfect operational record... but damn sure that they did a lot of dangerous stuff and made it home! Because noone was allowed to go lax for a moment.
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I never met Admiral Rickover. He had already retired 2 years by the time I took the bus from Annapolis to DC to interview at Naval Reactors. I got to sit in front of his immediate successor, Admiral Kinnaird McKee, and he was only slightly less intimidating.

Everything you say about the nuke Navy, I'm here to validate. It's a culture that accepts nothing but flawless performance and expects nothing but extreme strain to achieve it.

I was also a Surface Warfare Officer (since being a nuke is an officer subspecialty code and I didn't volunteer for submarine duty), which means I did the very same things that the officers of the deck on McCain and Fitzgerald fucked up so bad. And when I read the summaries posted by jrassy I can only shake my head in absolute disbelief and disgust at what the surface navy has been allowed to decay to, at least in 7th Fleet.

This, this just makes my blood boil......this is the shit that would get you summarily dismissed from the nuke Navy:
In particular, McCain’s commanding officer disregarded recommendations from his executive officer, navigator and senior watch officer to set sea and anchor watch teams in a timely fashion to ensure the safe and effective operation of the ship. With regard to procedures, no one on the Bridge watch team, to include the commanding officer and executive officer, were properly trained on how to correctly operate the ship control console during a steering casualty.”
Click to expand...

NOBODY HAD A FUCKING CLUE WHAT TO DO when shit fell apart.
 
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#16
The bungling by DoD of the Texas loser's court martial and incarceration materials is proving beyond epic... and apparently endemic. The DoD is scrambling to send the FBI stuff from all branches, apparently. All hands evolution that is going to cause embarrasments.... How many other whack-jobs are out there?

And in the mean time... the O6's and up get lap dances... and the sailors drown in their bunks....

Sirhr
 
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