I picked up some once fired Federal brass marked 07, and I was able to load it four more times before the stretch ring and step showed up. Is that good, average, or otherwise? Full length, neck, neck, full length, done. Considering I was able to get 5, sometimes 6 out of Lapua brass for a 338, I guess I may have answered my own question. Even still, I have heard stories of people loading their brass 10-12, even 20 times.
Federal 300 WM brass, 5 loadings, good or bad...
- Thread starter Ryguy
- Start date
I just discarded some (200) WW brass for a 300 WM that I had ten firings on. Not all of it was bad, primer pocktes were getting loose. I try to keep everything at the same number of firings and anneal every three firings, so when some went south I canned it all and started over. It took two years to get to the ten firings, so I'm pleased with it. Five loadings seems a bit shy, but loading habits, charges etc play a role as well.
Excess head clearance is what causes brass to stretch, this applies to new brass and also your resized brass. When resizing, head clearance corresponds to the amount of shoulder bump meaning how far the shoulder of the case is pushed back during resizing.
Below, head clearance is the "air space" between the bolt face and the rear of the case and the distance the case can stretch.
Below is an animated image of a cartridge being fired, on a bolt action rifle the general thumb rule is .001 to .002 shoulder bump when resizing your cases. Brass is elastic and when the head clearance is held to a minimum the brass will stretch slightly and then spring back "without" stretching.
It all boils down to NOT following the instructions for setup that comes with you dies, meaning having the die make hard contact with the shell holder and the press reaching cam over. With the exception of the people using competition shell holder of varying heights.
Below is a exaggerated image of shoulder bump and is labeled "shoulder setback" and adjusting your dies means looking at the blue, red and green dotted lines below. YOUR shoulder setback (shoulder bump) is controlled by your die setup and the person pulling the handle of the press.
The instructions that come with your die sets are to ensure any resized case will fit in any chamber. Controlling shoulder bump (shoulder setback) is the "fine" tuning you do to your cases for your rifle that can extend case life.
Case life varies with chamber pressure and the type rifle you are shooting, I have 30-30 cases over 30 years old and only die with split necks. I also have 30-06 cases fired in my M1 Garand that I'm lucky to get five reloads from. The quality of your cases, the size of your chamber also have a great deal to do with case life, military chamber are longer and fatter than their civilian SAAMI counterparts and can stretch brass a great deal and nothing is written in stone.
The .308 cases below were shot in a brand new Savage rifle and full length resized with the press reaching cam over. This information below is "ball park" meaning the actual headspace of the rifle was not given nor was the amount of shoulder bump.
Below is an example of a civilian SAAMI cartridge case being fired in a British .303 Enfield military chamber and similar to your problem with your belted cases.
Once your belted cases are fire formed to your chamber you forget the belt and use the shoulder to control your head clearance.
On rimmed and belted cases you never know where the factory is going to put the shoulder of the case.
Buy a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure your fired cases and then adjust your dies for minimum shoulder bump and longer case life.
The above message was brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rifle Brass.
Below, head clearance is the "air space" between the bolt face and the rear of the case and the distance the case can stretch.
Below is an animated image of a cartridge being fired, on a bolt action rifle the general thumb rule is .001 to .002 shoulder bump when resizing your cases. Brass is elastic and when the head clearance is held to a minimum the brass will stretch slightly and then spring back "without" stretching.
It all boils down to NOT following the instructions for setup that comes with you dies, meaning having the die make hard contact with the shell holder and the press reaching cam over. With the exception of the people using competition shell holder of varying heights.
Below is a exaggerated image of shoulder bump and is labeled "shoulder setback" and adjusting your dies means looking at the blue, red and green dotted lines below. YOUR shoulder setback (shoulder bump) is controlled by your die setup and the person pulling the handle of the press.
The instructions that come with your die sets are to ensure any resized case will fit in any chamber. Controlling shoulder bump (shoulder setback) is the "fine" tuning you do to your cases for your rifle that can extend case life.
Case life varies with chamber pressure and the type rifle you are shooting, I have 30-30 cases over 30 years old and only die with split necks. I also have 30-06 cases fired in my M1 Garand that I'm lucky to get five reloads from. The quality of your cases, the size of your chamber also have a great deal to do with case life, military chamber are longer and fatter than their civilian SAAMI counterparts and can stretch brass a great deal and nothing is written in stone.
The .308 cases below were shot in a brand new Savage rifle and full length resized with the press reaching cam over. This information below is "ball park" meaning the actual headspace of the rifle was not given nor was the amount of shoulder bump.
Below is an example of a civilian SAAMI cartridge case being fired in a British .303 Enfield military chamber and similar to your problem with your belted cases.
Once your belted cases are fire formed to your chamber you forget the belt and use the shoulder to control your head clearance.
On rimmed and belted cases you never know where the factory is going to put the shoulder of the case.
Buy a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure your fired cases and then adjust your dies for minimum shoulder bump and longer case life.
The above message was brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rifle Brass.
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I have the Hornady case gauge and was bumping the shoulder .002 with a full length Redding Type S, then neck sized twice followed by a final full length before they were done. The brass came fired and was really hard to get into the die, some of them would not go in no matter what lube, which makes me think whichever guns they were fired out of had very generous chambers. This "ballooning" just above the belt was so bad most of the brass pieces got a slight shaving from the belt inlet on the bottom of the die. Interestingly enough, I only trimmed the brass once and measured a .007 stretch before they were done. I trimmed to 2.610 and at 2.617 they were done. Also, i have them running at absolute max pressure with moderate primer flattening, and some primer cratering.
Bigedp51.'s post is right on the money especially when it comes to belted cases. If you follow the die manufactures instructions for setting up your dies there is a high probability you will be over sizing the cases resulting in shortened case life and potentially dangerous case failure. Set up your dies so the case head spaces off the shoulder and not the belt. This will require some method of adjusting the die which in most cases is a comparator such as the Hornady, RCBS Precision Mic or Innovative Technologies model. For my 300 WM I try to hold head space in the .001-.0015 range. One issue that may be encountered when setting up to headspace off the shoulder it that the die may not resize down to the belt and can result in tight clambering. This can be corrected with the use of a collet die. I anneal after every firing FL size with bushing dies and use a collet die to size down to the belt. Brass is segregated by number of firings and generally goes to the trash due to loose primer pocket.
Also your sizing steps of FL sizing, NS then FL sizing is probably overworking the brass which in itself will reduce case life. Based on the "ballooning" you mentioned on the cases you need to carefully inspect the brass and think twice before running max loads.
Also your sizing steps of FL sizing, NS then FL sizing is probably overworking the brass which in itself will reduce case life. Based on the "ballooning" you mentioned on the cases you need to carefully inspect the brass and think twice before running max loads.
The first brass I got for my 300WM was Hornady. I was a dealer at the time. I got 10 loadings on it before I retired it. I use a long wire to feel deep inside for cracks or other separations. These were mild loads shooting 175 Bergers.
The ballooning or "pressure ring" as bigedp51's picture calls it, came from which ever rifle fired them first since they were once fired when I got them. My rifle does not do that hence the ability to neck size twice before bumping the shoulder .002. Head spacing at the shoulder gives me 2.272 and they stay there for two firings before they get to 2.274 at which time I bump them back to 2.272. Can you please explain to me how neck sizing in between FL sizing works the brass more than always full length sizing? For instance, if I FL size every time and bump the shoulder .001, after 5 firings, that is .005, where as FL, neck, neck, FL even at .002 is still only .004 of "working". The base of the case above the belt never gets tight in the chamber and does not expand enough for my micrometer to measure it so I doubt a collet die will be necessary, at least after 5 firings. I am wondering if the chambers the brass initially came from were so loose, the initial FL size worked the brass enough to only get 5 firings from. I mean, it was bad, so bad they would be very difficult to squeeze into the die while some required enough force for me to give up.
I misunderstood your post and thought your were doing the neck and FL sizing after each firing. Personally, I don't neck size any more and FL size with a bushing die. Again based on what you stated about the condition of the brass when you received it as well as the difficulty in initially sizing it you need to inspect each case carefully and be cautious about shooting max loads. A case failure could potentially not only damage your rifle but cause serious bodily harm. Give some serious consideration on why you are shooting max loads. Your goal should be to find the load that is most accurate for your rifle. What is the purpose of trying to max MV if the distances you are shooting don't require it. The only thing you will achieve is shortening the life of your barrel and components.
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