granted this maybe a case of too much caffiene and the hamster wheel in my head spinning too fast but here goes. im a newish reloader. i have reloaded some .308, .223, and now this week begun .45auto for the pistol. when i was setting up dies it ocurred to me that i was using same shellholders for .308 as .45 auto and then came the proverbial lightning bolt. if one were so inclined and properly motivated with the correct hand tools it seems it might be possible to cut down a .308 casing to .45auto length and end up with pistol brass that has a .308 headstamp. i did a little measuring and the glaring differnce dimensionally so far is the extractor rebate is longer on the .45 leaving a thinner rim but not sure this is enough to cause a stoppage. anyone ever heard or know if this works?
field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
- Thread starter marduk185
- Start date
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
While a Pain in the balls, it used to be the main source for .44 auto mag cases which were in very short supply a few years ago.
I don't have any first hand experience as to whether it was a practical substitute. A friend who thought of buying one backed off due to unavailability, and high price, of factory ammo. I was more than happy to prep a few test cases for him though!
While the case heads are dimensionally similar, there are usually so many dumb asses, er, I mean, donors... leaving once fired pistol cases laying around, I have never had trouble finding .45 brass. Not to mention .40, 9mm, etc.
While a Pain in the balls, it used to be the main source for .44 auto mag cases which were in very short supply a few years ago.
I don't have any first hand experience as to whether it was a practical substitute. A friend who thought of buying one backed off due to unavailability, and high price, of factory ammo. I was more than happy to prep a few test cases for him though!
While the case heads are dimensionally similar, there are usually so many dumb asses, er, I mean, donors... leaving once fired pistol cases laying around, I have never had trouble finding .45 brass. Not to mention .40, 9mm, etc.
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
I have to agree with the three of you, and here's how:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">granted this maybe a case of too much caffiene and the hamster wheel in my head spinning too fast but here goes.</div></div> Spray some water on that there axle, it's starting to overheat.
People way smarter than me have figured out the in's and out's of "how to design ammunition" and I know what I don't know.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sir,
It can get you hurt.
John</div></div>
Then, considering the cost and availability, let alone:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the time to cut it all down, why bother.</div></div>
I have to agree with the three of you, and here's how:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">granted this maybe a case of too much caffiene and the hamster wheel in my head spinning too fast but here goes.</div></div> Spray some water on that there axle, it's starting to overheat.
People way smarter than me have figured out the in's and out's of "how to design ammunition" and I know what I don't know.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sir,
It can get you hurt.
John</div></div>
Then, considering the cost and availability, let alone:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the time to cut it all down, why bother.</div></div>
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
There are issues such as reaming the thick necks to accept the bullet, etc.
The only advantage would be to have the thick web area over the unsupported ramp area so you can soup up the .45acp. This became the .45 Super. Thick .45 Super brass is now available from Starline.
Would not even think of converting rifle brass.
Sherlok
There are issues such as reaming the thick necks to accept the bullet, etc.
The only advantage would be to have the thick web area over the unsupported ramp area so you can soup up the .45acp. This became the .45 Super. Thick .45 Super brass is now available from Starline.
Would not even think of converting rifle brass.
Sherlok
G
Guest
Guest
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
Been doing it for 35+ years, an still doing it. I pick up everything .308 base size and turn most all into 45acp shot shells, but I have also reamed an trimed a few for 45acp ball ammo as well. Not worth the time reaming/triming, but the shot shells are a blast to shoot.
If your wanting to try it, winchester brass works the best if your making ball ammo, Remington works best in the long run for the shot shells. You can get the 45acp shot shell kit from RCBS, as they have had them for years. Back when I first started I had to use forming dies I made. Trust me, for the money buy the RCBS kit, unless you have your own lathe, and lots of time to play.
If you want to get into it, start saving very thin cardboard, for over powder wads, an styrofoam coffee cups for over shot wads. Although the styroform will work for both, the cardboard with correct loading will allow the weapon to cycle the next round. Other wise you have to single load, which sucks.
Been doing it for 35+ years, an still doing it. I pick up everything .308 base size and turn most all into 45acp shot shells, but I have also reamed an trimed a few for 45acp ball ammo as well. Not worth the time reaming/triming, but the shot shells are a blast to shoot.
If your wanting to try it, winchester brass works the best if your making ball ammo, Remington works best in the long run for the shot shells. You can get the 45acp shot shell kit from RCBS, as they have had them for years. Back when I first started I had to use forming dies I made. Trust me, for the money buy the RCBS kit, unless you have your own lathe, and lots of time to play.
If you want to get into it, start saving very thin cardboard, for over powder wads, an styrofoam coffee cups for over shot wads. Although the styroform will work for both, the cardboard with correct loading will allow the weapon to cycle the next round. Other wise you have to single load, which sucks.
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been doing it for 35+ years, an still doing it. I pick up everything .308 base size and turn most all into 45acp shot shells, but I have also reamed an trimed a few for 45acp ball ammo as well. Not worth the time reaming/triming, but the shot shells are a blast to shoot.
If your wanting to try it, winchester brass works the best if your making ball ammo, Remington works best in the long run for the shot shells. You can get the 45acp shot shell kit from RCBS, as they have had them for years. Back when I first started I had to use forming dies I made. Trust me, for the money buy the RCBS kit, unless you have your own lathe, and lots of time to play.
If you want to get into it, start saving very thin cardboard, for over powder wads, an styrofoam coffee cups for over shot wads. Although the styroform will work for both, the cardboard with correct loading will allow the weapon to cycle the next round. Other wise you have to single load, which sucks.
</div></div>
+1...
I agree. Huntington die makes the special purpose dies for making the 45acp shot shells from 308 / 7.62. They even carry a trim die to cut the brass to acp length.
If you have the money, the time and the energy to do it... good luck. It can be fun. But just remember, it's nothing new.
I think I would water the axle again and wait for it to cool.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been doing it for 35+ years, an still doing it. I pick up everything .308 base size and turn most all into 45acp shot shells, but I have also reamed an trimed a few for 45acp ball ammo as well. Not worth the time reaming/triming, but the shot shells are a blast to shoot.
If your wanting to try it, winchester brass works the best if your making ball ammo, Remington works best in the long run for the shot shells. You can get the 45acp shot shell kit from RCBS, as they have had them for years. Back when I first started I had to use forming dies I made. Trust me, for the money buy the RCBS kit, unless you have your own lathe, and lots of time to play.
If you want to get into it, start saving very thin cardboard, for over powder wads, an styrofoam coffee cups for over shot wads. Although the styroform will work for both, the cardboard with correct loading will allow the weapon to cycle the next round. Other wise you have to single load, which sucks.
</div></div>
+1...
I agree. Huntington die makes the special purpose dies for making the 45acp shot shells from 308 / 7.62. They even carry a trim die to cut the brass to acp length.
If you have the money, the time and the energy to do it... good luck. It can be fun. But just remember, it's nothing new.
I think I would water the axle again and wait for it to cool.
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
cool thanks guys think youve answered my question. sounds like it is doable which confirms my hunch. as for doing it sounds like more work than i wanna fool with right now. just out of curiosity though, why must be reamed? is it that the case wall thickness is too much to seat the bullet? and does the rebate have to be turned further?
cool thanks guys think youve answered my question. sounds like it is doable which confirms my hunch. as for doing it sounds like more work than i wanna fool with right now. just out of curiosity though, why must be reamed? is it that the case wall thickness is too much to seat the bullet? and does the rebate have to be turned further?
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are usually so many dumb asses, er, I mean, donors... leaving once fired pistol cases laying around, I have never had trouble finding .45 brass. Not to mention .40, 9mm, etc. </div></div>
Hey now, those are the best kind of guys to have at the range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are usually so many dumb asses, er, I mean, donors... leaving once fired pistol cases laying around, I have never had trouble finding .45 brass. Not to mention .40, 9mm, etc. </div></div>
Hey now, those are the best kind of guys to have at the range
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sherlok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Thick .45 Super brass is now available from Starline.
Sherlok </div></div>
45 Super and 460 Rowland brass from Starline are no thicker in web or sides than Starline 45acp brass... despite what Joe's website says.
The Starline 45acp +P is much heavier and much thicker on the sides, and allows me to shoot 45 Super loads with a pistol that has feed ramp intrusion to .235" from the breech face. You can't do that with 45 Super brass.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For 98 years, lots of people have made 45acp brass from 1889 Mauser type case heads with large Boxer primer pockets.
The first 45acp was made by John Browning from 30-06 brass, when he was working on the 1911.
Lots of people have found out that it is too much work.
It is harder to trim than you think.
It is harder to ream than you think.
And what does it save you?
4 cents each.
http://oncefiredbrass.com/
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sherlok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Thick .45 Super brass is now available from Starline.
Sherlok </div></div>
45 Super and 460 Rowland brass from Starline are no thicker in web or sides than Starline 45acp brass... despite what Joe's website says.
The Starline 45acp +P is much heavier and much thicker on the sides, and allows me to shoot 45 Super loads with a pistol that has feed ramp intrusion to .235" from the breech face. You can't do that with 45 Super brass.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For 98 years, lots of people have made 45acp brass from 1889 Mauser type case heads with large Boxer primer pockets.
The first 45acp was made by John Browning from 30-06 brass, when he was working on the 1911.
Lots of people have found out that it is too much work.
It is harder to trim than you think.
It is harder to ream than you think.
And what does it save you?
4 cents each.
http://oncefiredbrass.com/
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
Gunfighter14e2 and Victor beat me to it. While I wouldn't waste the time to make 45 ACP brass for ball ammo, it can be fun to do for birdshot. IIRC there was an article a few years ago in Handloader magazine detailing the process, Ill see if I can find it laying around.
Gunfighter14e2 and Victor beat me to it. While I wouldn't waste the time to make 45 ACP brass for ball ammo, it can be fun to do for birdshot. IIRC there was an article a few years ago in Handloader magazine detailing the process, Ill see if I can find it laying around.
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
I found a link at THR that goes over a bit of the article.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367379
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature1001.html
RCBS makes case forming dies specifically for this project, item number 58378.
I found a link at THR that goes over a bit of the article.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367379
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature1001.html
RCBS makes case forming dies specifically for this project, item number 58378.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
Those are both, good reads. Although my powder of choice is 700X an I use different over powder an over shot wads. One thing I did see, is most of the photos were showing way to much crimp. All you need is enough to feed 100% of the time and hold the over shot wad, with it's material make up an size being the most important factor.
Back when I started making my own shotshells I was still making shot for them as well. Oh, the late nights making shot drippers, those were the days. I'd like to have a buck for every dripper I screwed up an had to remake, before I found out Babbit was plugging them up. After I learned that lesson an switched to auto brake fluid the shot making went well.
Those are both, good reads. Although my powder of choice is 700X an I use different over powder an over shot wads. One thing I did see, is most of the photos were showing way to much crimp. All you need is enough to feed 100% of the time and hold the over shot wad, with it's material make up an size being the most important factor.
Back when I started making my own shotshells I was still making shot for them as well. Oh, the late nights making shot drippers, those were the days. I'd like to have a buck for every dripper I screwed up an had to remake, before I found out Babbit was plugging them up. After I learned that lesson an switched to auto brake fluid the shot making went well.
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
For the record, somebody (I think it could even have been J.M. Browning) invented the .45ACP by cutting off the base of a .30-'06 case. Nominally, the .308 Win's spec should be effectively identical, but the 7.62x51 NATO should have several additional grains of brass incorporated in the base to accomodate GI requirements for machine gun usage.
Personally, I think that would be an awful waste of perfectly good .308 cases. But inventing something new? Naah.
Greg
For the record, somebody (I think it could even have been J.M. Browning) invented the .45ACP by cutting off the base of a .30-'06 case. Nominally, the .308 Win's spec should be effectively identical, but the 7.62x51 NATO should have several additional grains of brass incorporated in the base to accomodate GI requirements for machine gun usage.
Personally, I think that would be an awful waste of perfectly good .308 cases. But inventing something new? Naah.
Greg
Re: field expedient 45auto from 7.62?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the record, somebody (I think it could even have been J.M. Browning) invented the .45ACP by cutting off the base of a .30-'06 case. </div></div>
My local smith told me it was Browning.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the record, somebody (I think it could even have been J.M. Browning) invented the .45ACP by cutting off the base of a .30-'06 case. </div></div>
My local smith told me it was Browning.
