Re: Field Precision Rifle Class Concept Approved!
Hello Darrell,
While I appreciate your comments regarding 223 and low recoil with a heavy rifle, part of this discussion is being able to use your current tactical rifle to shoot F-Class. My wife has both a 223AI she has shot in tactical matches and a 6mm she currently shoots. These are her rifles, they weight 11 pounds, not 18. She is not interested in shooting an "18 pound F-class" tactical rifle. If she was interested in that, or I for that matter, this discussion would not be happening. We would have dedicated F-class rifles and shoot an appropriate caliber...
I still have to ask, why is the NRA concerned with the breaks??? Flash hiders on XC AR's and MIA are legit...and they are breaks.
So... this is a nice touchy issue... If I choose to shoot F-Class, then I will play by the current rules. If you want a new class, thus the potential for new shooters and those shooters prefer breaks and the new rage tactical rifles, then something needs to give. If as a current F-Class shooter you don't want to be on the line with a break next to you, then Vu's clubs MD has the right solution, squad them separately.
To those with comments regarding the blast, I have spent lots of time on the ground next to large bore rifles with breaks, and have had them shot over my shoulder. Yep, it is loud, and they do throw stuff around.
It appears to me the problem isn't the breaks, it is a change and an alteration to the status quo. That is fine.
We will continue to shoot with breaks, F-Class won't. I hope to be see you ladies and gents on the line somewhere sometime.
Good Luck,
Eric
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they want my wife and little girls to shoot in the future, breaks will need to be allowed. </div></div>
Considering that I've seen a number of small women and girls shoot (very well, in fact) with a .223 Rem in F/TR for mid-range matches, I say you might want to reconsider that. A 17-18lb. .308 doesn't have much recoil; a .223 has almost none. </div></div>
I'll take this one step further, I've personally watched a 16 year old girl that *might* weigh 90# soaking wet shoot a 20 round match with a 300 Win Mag with <span style="font-weight: bold">no brake at all</span>. She did very well with it. The rifle might have weighed 14# total, including scope, and was shot "sling and irons", ie. no front rest.
That said, it is silly for a "F-Tactical" class to be restricted to no muzzle breaks. I think I have shot closer to a (very aggressive) muzzle break than most, and find that while annoying, it is quite possible to do in competition. In my case, it involved a sniper match in Canada that required the shooter to fire a string using their spotter's shoulder as a support, leaving the muzzle break about 8" from the spotter's head. Loud? yes, even with double ears, but hardly "concussive".
As far as the proposed new class, as much as I'd love a new division in F-Class to get more shooters involved, I think your concept has some issues. The vast majority of shooters in it would likely be using some form of .308. The way you have your concept outlined now, you are basically turning it into F-Open on bipods right out of the gate. I can't think of a way to turn off new shooters quicker than to have 80% of them shooting stock .308's and have them constantly getting demolished by the couple of guys with their hyper-modified 6.5-284 "sniper rifles". The massive differences in ballistic efficiency between the different calibers will dictate that those that are truly interested in excelling in the new class will be driven to the crazy barrel-killing calibers that are currently in vogue with the F-Open crowd. You want to unscrew your insanely accurate barrel and turn it into a tomato stake at 700-1000 rounds? Run a 7mm "ultra-mag", or 6.5-284. The expense of constant barrel changes alone will turn off many of the same shooters that you are trying to attract.
Just my .02,
Darrell
</div></div>
Hello Darrell,
While I appreciate your comments regarding 223 and low recoil with a heavy rifle, part of this discussion is being able to use your current tactical rifle to shoot F-Class. My wife has both a 223AI she has shot in tactical matches and a 6mm she currently shoots. These are her rifles, they weight 11 pounds, not 18. She is not interested in shooting an "18 pound F-class" tactical rifle. If she was interested in that, or I for that matter, this discussion would not be happening. We would have dedicated F-class rifles and shoot an appropriate caliber...
I still have to ask, why is the NRA concerned with the breaks??? Flash hiders on XC AR's and MIA are legit...and they are breaks.
So... this is a nice touchy issue... If I choose to shoot F-Class, then I will play by the current rules. If you want a new class, thus the potential for new shooters and those shooters prefer breaks and the new rage tactical rifles, then something needs to give. If as a current F-Class shooter you don't want to be on the line with a break next to you, then Vu's clubs MD has the right solution, squad them separately.
To those with comments regarding the blast, I have spent lots of time on the ground next to large bore rifles with breaks, and have had them shot over my shoulder. Yep, it is loud, and they do throw stuff around.
It appears to me the problem isn't the breaks, it is a change and an alteration to the status quo. That is fine.
We will continue to shoot with breaks, F-Class won't. I hope to be see you ladies and gents on the line somewhere sometime.
Good Luck,
Eric
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they want my wife and little girls to shoot in the future, breaks will need to be allowed. </div></div>
Considering that I've seen a number of small women and girls shoot (very well, in fact) with a .223 Rem in F/TR for mid-range matches, I say you might want to reconsider that. A 17-18lb. .308 doesn't have much recoil; a .223 has almost none. </div></div>
I'll take this one step further, I've personally watched a 16 year old girl that *might* weigh 90# soaking wet shoot a 20 round match with a 300 Win Mag with <span style="font-weight: bold">no brake at all</span>. She did very well with it. The rifle might have weighed 14# total, including scope, and was shot "sling and irons", ie. no front rest.
That said, it is silly for a "F-Tactical" class to be restricted to no muzzle breaks. I think I have shot closer to a (very aggressive) muzzle break than most, and find that while annoying, it is quite possible to do in competition. In my case, it involved a sniper match in Canada that required the shooter to fire a string using their spotter's shoulder as a support, leaving the muzzle break about 8" from the spotter's head. Loud? yes, even with double ears, but hardly "concussive".
As far as the proposed new class, as much as I'd love a new division in F-Class to get more shooters involved, I think your concept has some issues. The vast majority of shooters in it would likely be using some form of .308. The way you have your concept outlined now, you are basically turning it into F-Open on bipods right out of the gate. I can't think of a way to turn off new shooters quicker than to have 80% of them shooting stock .308's and have them constantly getting demolished by the couple of guys with their hyper-modified 6.5-284 "sniper rifles". The massive differences in ballistic efficiency between the different calibers will dictate that those that are truly interested in excelling in the new class will be driven to the crazy barrel-killing calibers that are currently in vogue with the F-Open crowd. You want to unscrew your insanely accurate barrel and turn it into a tomato stake at 700-1000 rounds? Run a 7mm "ultra-mag", or 6.5-284. The expense of constant barrel changes alone will turn off many of the same shooters that you are trying to attract.
Just my .02,
Darrell
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