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Rifle Scopes Finally, some news from IOR

LibertyOptics

LibertyOptics

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Jan 20, 2004
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Kalispell Montana
www.libertyoptics.com
#1
Hiders,

Two new arrivals.

1) A "Gen 4" 3-18x42 FFP. Scott @ Valdada has assured me these have completely new, redesigned internals and are made to completely withstand all rifle recoil and hold up as they should. To be fair, the "Gen 3" model has been the best yet but wasn't up to our standards. The word is that the guys in Bucarest were/are stung by the criticism they've received and pulled out all the stops on this one. This all remains to be seen. However, this scope always had a winning laundry list of features <span style="font-style: italic">sans</span> the reliability. The bad news, is the price has gone up. I personally do not think the scope has earned the right to command more money until proven but it is what it is. Delivered with rings the price is $1549 delivered.

2) Perhaps the real news is the arrival of the new 2.5-10x42 FFP! Here's a list of some changes compared to the older model:

<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]A new reticle copied/adapted directly from the MP-8 A5 reticle from the 3-18 FFP

[*]A new 11-position rheostat that eliminates the "too bright" lowest settings; Scott @ Valdada tells me that they are NV compatible!

[*]Illumination is in the center dot of the reticle ONLY

[*]New, 1/10 mil exposed knobs with 5mils per turn, a new turret mechanism, and 24mils of travel (85moa+)

[*]Brand new lens coatings, an IOR first in many years
[/list]

Price on these has climbed too, gone are the days of the under $1000 FFP. However, the 2.5-10x42 has easily the best track record of any IOR variable, in our experience. I'm actually pretty excited about the potential of this scope to fill a lower cost niche. I've got 'em on the way now. MAP price is $1275 but you know what to do for Hide pricing.

Thanks for your consideration.

Scott
 
#3
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the news Scott.

I'm very interested in this new 2.5-10x model. Awaiting pics and more info on this "new turret mechanism".

ETA? </div></div>

My understanding is they had to redesign the turrets to fit the smaller 2.5-10 housing. As long as it tracks like all the other exposed knob IOR scopes, it will be fine.

ETA? Both items above can ship Monday. I've got the 2.5-10x42 enroute, but haven't seen the darn things yet.

Scott
 
#4
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

That would be great, if IOR could get a durable consistent product out there they'd be in a region of the tactical market price range $1000-1500 that has little to no competition in FFP. Might take them a bit to recover from their reputation from previous versions but I still feel at that price point the market is ripe for someone to come in with a solid offering.
 
#5
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott @ Valdada has assured me these have completely new, redesigned internals and are made to completely withstand all rifle recoil and hold up as they should.....</div></div>
Well, tell Scott @ Valdada if he wants to put his money where his mouth is, I would be willing to do some free durability testing on my rifle known as "The IOR Killer." It broke three of them, including a 3rd Gen, so if they want to get their rep back, a scope living on that rifle for a while would go a long way toward that.

And since it's pretty clear they do no severe recoil testing at the factory it's not a bad deal for them as I'm sure building a real "chugga-chugga" machine is quite expensive.

Just figured I should offer. It is a fantastic scope at a great price...if it just wouldn't break....
 
#6
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Hopefully these two models will be the start of IOR developing a reputation for durability. Wish I had the funds for that 2.5-10x. Sounds like a winner.

Any word on the new coatings? What in particular are they trying to achieve, better brightness, clarity, resolution, etc?
 
#7
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott @ Valdada has assured me these have completely new, redesigned internals and are made to completely withstand all rifle recoil and hold up as they should.....</div></div>
Well, tell Scott @ Valdada if he wants to put his money where his mouth is, I would be willing to do some free durability testing on my rifle known as "The IOR Killer." It broke three of them, including a 3rd Gen, so if they want to get their rep back, a scope living on that rifle for a while would go a long way toward that.

And since it's pretty clear they do no severe recoil testing at the factory it's not a bad deal for them as I'm sure building a real "chugga-chugga" machine is quite expensive.

Just figured I should offer. It is a fantastic scope at a great price...if it just wouldn't break.... </div></div>

WOW, Sounds like IOR should give you a 4th gen for free for your troubles!
 
#8
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Scott, IOR seems to not even want to address the #2 issue with the 3-18, the length of the tube behing the turret housing. Which gives this scope a funky eye relief. The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing.
 
#10
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, IOR seems to not even want to address the #2 issue with the 3-18, the length of the tube behing the turret housing. Which gives this scope a funky eye relief. The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing. </div></div>

Agreed.

If they would only consider giving their 4-14x50mm the same features as the 3-18x SH edition, they'd literally mop the floor in the sub 2k tactical scope market.

Leupold is ultimately going to do it with their 4.5-14x one of these days, and then it will be too late for IOR.
 
#11
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

What is breaking on all these previous generation scopes ? I have an earlier generation on my .308 and haven't had any troubles with it but am curious what I should be looking for if the thing decides to crap out on me .
 
#12
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

This is good news, I'm down to try the new generation of the 3-18x42 model. I like my 3rd generation for the most part. Hopefully the 4th generation has corrected the previous problems.
 
#13
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

scott i am interested in one of the 2.5-10 quick couple of questions. is there a zero stop or an option for a zero stop. next is the illuminated reticle bright enough to see in bright daylight.
 
#14
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, IOR seems to not even want to address the #2 issue with the 3-18, the length of the tube behing the turret housing. Which gives this scope a funky eye relief. The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing. </div></div>

Agreed.

If they would only consider giving their 4-14x50mm the same features as the 3-18x SH edition, they'd literally mop the floor in the sub 2k tactical scope market.

Leupold is ultimately going to do it with their 4.5-14x one of these days, and then it will be too late for IOR. </div></div>

The spacing of the turret/ocular is a bit different than most scopes, but I'll bet it makes for ideal mounting on top of ARs.
 
#15
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Jon et al.,

I completely agree. You should have been the first one they called for testing. What I was told is they've had these here for awhile and had some guys down south test them for several weeks on some wicked rifles. They didn't want to release these until they passed all the tests.

To rehash, 9 of 10 ever made are still going strong. When they go, the internals seem to shake loose and a common symptom is being able to see at 3x and 18x but blurry in between. You will know when the scope fails.

I doubt the illumination on the 2.5-10x42 wil lwork in daylight, but it would be awesome if it does. I'll know soon!!

Zero stop - I don't think so, so that's one "minus".

Anyway guys, no one is more sympathetic about the past SH 3-18 failures than me, if this one doesn't pan out, I promise you'll never see me mention them here for sale again.

Scott
 
#16
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

When does LL get his to do "The Test"? The new Sniper's Hide review videos are the business, and letting them attempt to trash one on video would be a great way to get business back (if it can take it).

Josh
 
#17
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

I really liked the 2.5-10 IOR, but had problems with the lack of parallax adjustment in certain situations. If they would have added that along with the other stuff I'd be more interested.
 
#19
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">That would be great, if IOR could get a durable consistent product out there they'd be in a region of the tactical market price range $1000-1500 that has little to no competition in FFP.</span> Might take them a bit to recover from their reputation from previous versions but I still feel at that price point the market is ripe for someone to come in with a solid offering. </div></div>

That will change soon.......
 
#20
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Uh huh...

Vortex has a long way to go to take over <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> price point in the optics world.

If Leupold put something in that slot ahead of Vortex, Vortex might as well sell the tooling, because shooters are awfully brand loyal lot.

The true tactical shooters, of which I am no longer one, is a tiny fraction of the folks who buy optics. There are former tactical shooters and tactical shooter wannanbes, but I would submit out of the number of people who buy rifle scopes that's still a small number compared to all rifle scope purchasers. When contemplating a new scope purchase, the vast number of people don't research their purchase; they look around them, where they live, and who they associate with to decide which deer rifle scope scope to buy. A lot buy what the police use. I'm not sure how many look beyond that, brand loyalty, and the scope their Daddy or best friend uses.

Good luck to anyone trying to break in at any price point in any shooting market, and compete with the scopes that have the big L in the name.

I'm really surprised anyone is contemplating trying to break into the 1K+ scope market in this economy. Sure, some of us can purchase a scope here or there, and there are a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">very few</span></span> who are more fortunate and are able to buy what they want. Everyone one else is hurting, or, are one layoff or shut down from hurting, so they're saving for things like food, a mortgage, electricity, vehicle payments...etc...
 
#21
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uh huh...

Vortex has a long way to go to take over <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> price point in the optics world.

If Leupold put something in that slot ahead of Vortex, Vortex might as well sell the tooling, because shooters are awfully brand loyal lot.

The true tactical shooters, of which I am no longer one, is a tiny fraction of the folks who buy optics. There are former tactical shooters and tactical shooter wannanbes, but I would submit out of the number of people who buy rifle scopes that's still a small number compared to all rifle scope purchasers. When contemplating a new scope purchase, the vast number of people don't research their purchase; they look around them, where they live, and who they associate with to decide which deer rifle scope scope to buy. A lot buy what the police use. I'm not sure how many look beyond that, brand loyalty, and the scope their Daddy or best friend uses.

Good luck to anyone trying to break in at any price point in any shooting market, and compete with the scopes that have the big L in the name.

I'm really surprised anyone is contemplating trying to break into the 1K+ scope market in this economy. Sure, some of us can purchase a scope here or there, and there are a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">very few</span></span> who are more fortunate and are able to buy what they want. Everyone one else is hurting, or, are one layoff or shut down from hurting, so they're saving for things like food, a mortgage, electricity, vehicle payments...etc... </div></div>

I think a lot of what you say is true. However, I thank heaven that the folk at Vortex, Nightforce, USO, etc., etc. have chosen to get into the mix & compete with "Big L." While Leupold does build a great product and has a lot of variety in their lineup, they are getting outflanked by the aforementioned companies when it comes to innovation in the tactical scope market segment. This has allowed companies like Vortex to gain a foothold in the market & at some point they'll start to grab some market share formerly dominated by Big L.

I'm not saying that Leupold is going downhill as they still dominate every market niche and produce a good product. What I am saying is that these other companies has chosen the tactical niche in which to innovate and us, the shooters, are benefitting. Hopefully Leupold will put their resources in addressing the desires of a larger tactical shooter segment (ie--those who want the features of a $1,800+ scope but have a sub $1,000 wallet). Then everybody will be signing Big L's praises, saying, "they're back" etc...
 
#22
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ceylonc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uh huh...

Vortex has a long way to go to take over <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> price point in the optics world.

If Leupold put something in that slot ahead of Vortex, Vortex might as well sell the tooling, because shooters are awfully brand loyal lot.

The true tactical shooters, of which I am no longer one, is a tiny fraction of the folks who buy optics. There are former tactical shooters and tactical shooter wannanbes, but I would submit out of the number of people who buy rifle scopes that's still a small number compared to all rifle scope purchasers. When contemplating a new scope purchase, the vast number of people don't research their purchase; they look around them, where they live, and who they associate with to decide which deer rifle scope scope to buy. A lot buy what the police use. I'm not sure how many look beyond that, brand loyalty, and the scope their Daddy or best friend uses.

Good luck to anyone trying to break in at any price point in any shooting market, and compete with the scopes that have the big L in the name.

I'm really surprised anyone is contemplating trying to break into the 1K+ scope market in this economy. Sure, some of us can purchase a scope here or there, and there are a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">very few</span></span> who are more fortunate and are able to buy what they want. Everyone one else is hurting, or, are one layoff or shut down from hurting, so they're saving for things like food, a mortgage, electricity, vehicle payments...etc... </div></div>

I think a lot of what you say is true. However, I thank heaven that the folk at Vortex, Nightforce, USO, etc., etc. have chosen to get into the mix & compete with "Big L." While Leupold does build a great product and has a lot of variety in their lineup, they are getting outflanked by the aforementioned companies when it comes to innovation in the tactical scope market segment. This has allowed companies like Vortex to gain a foothold in the market & at some point they'll start to grab some market share formerly dominated by Big L.

I'm not saying that Leupold is going downhill as they still dominate every market niche and produce a good product. What I am saying is that these other companies has chosen the tactical niche in which to innovate and us, the shooters, are benefitting. Hopefully Leupold will put their resources in addressing the desires of a larger tactical shooter segment (ie--those who want the features of a $1,800+ scope but have a sub $1,000 wallet). Then everybody will be signing Big L's praises, saying, "they're back" etc... </div></div>

ceylonc,

Leupold was "innovative" in 1980 when they first released their Ultra line. Leupold pioneered scopes with MIL-Dot reticles and adjustable turrets. Can anyone name just one tactical innovation that Leupold has pioneered since then?

Today, Tactical scopes have three distinct features:

FFP
Mil Adjustments
Mil based Reticles

(Or MOA Adjustments, coupled with MOA reticle, for the Mil challenged)

Leupold is just starting to produce tactical scopes with those features, in 2009. Yet, Leupold has had two MIL based reticles for more than 15 years.

They have been producing a line of 30mm tubed European Models with 1 cm adjustments @ 100 meters since 1993. Yet from Leupold's own answer page I find the following:

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Why are target adjustments not available on European-30?</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Target style adjustments are not available on European-30 scopes because target adjustments are not very popular on the international market. Also, the adjustment increments are calibrated in a special increment for the international market and we cannot retrofit existing target dials.
</span>

So tactical scopes produced in the late 90's by S&B, Zeiss-Hensoldt, IOR, Kahles, and others with 1 cm @ 100M adjustable turrets, totally escaped their notice. But notice also Leupold had metric cams, in the correct mil scale! What they did not have was a correct metric marked dial? For the want of a figgen dial, Leupold has fallen 10 years behind the competition. Talk about corporate blunders.....

And during the Leupold-Premier Reticles partnership phase (before Leupold threw them under the bus), Premier was also converting Leupold variables to FFP since 1997 or so. So a small company like Premier could convert Leupold scopes to FFP, but the largest scope maker in the world, Leupold could not. Also the same European scope makers like Zeiss, S&B, and others were producing FFP variable scopes in the 60's and 70's. They only changed to SFP, in order to compete with Leupold, Redfield, B&L and Weaver in the US market. US shooters wanted SFP, and would not buy FFP. FFP was considered old technology in 1970, and SFP was the way to go. Now 40 years later, FFP is cutting edge, and SFP is old school.

Where does that leave Leupold in 2010? Could they introduce a MIL/MIL FFP Variable scope, and price it around $1k, and recapture the tactical market? Sure, maybe. But given their track record over the last 20 years of non-innovation and piss poor reading the tactical scope market, I'd say it's unlikely.

So in summary, Leupold has had mil-dot reticles, metric cams, and full access to FFP technology, for more than 15 years. Yet they have not seen fit to couple those three simple elements into a package that could compete with other smaller scope makers. That's what we mean when we talk about Leupolds downfall. They had all the pieces available, and misread the market, totally.

Thanks,

Bob
 
#23
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uh huh...

Vortex has a long way to go to take over <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> price point in the optics world.

If Leupold put something in that slot ahead of Vortex, Vortex might as well sell the tooling, because shooters are awfully brand loyal lot.

The true tactical shooters, of which I am no longer one, is a tiny fraction of the folks who buy optics. There are former tactical shooters and tactical shooter wannanbes, but I would submit out of the number of people who buy rifle scopes that's still a small number compared to all rifle scope purchasers. When contemplating a new scope purchase, the vast number of people don't research their purchase; they look around them, where they live, and who they associate with to decide which deer rifle scope scope to buy. A lot buy what the police use. I'm not sure how many look beyond that, brand loyalty, and the scope their Daddy or best friend uses.

Good luck to anyone trying to break in at any price point in any shooting market, and compete with the scopes that have the big L in the name.

I'm really surprised anyone is contemplating trying to break into the 1K+ scope market in this economy. Sure, some of us can purchase a scope here or there, and there are a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">very few</span></span> who are more fortunate and are able to buy what they want. Everyone one else is hurting, or, are one layoff or shut down from hurting, so they're saving for things like food, a mortgage, electricity, vehicle payments...etc... </div></div>


Woah woah woah I din say anything about Voretx
grin.gif
 
#25
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing. </div></div>

What do you mean? The thing is similar to a Leupold Mark-4 16x and that scope does not need an extended base.
 
#26
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing. </div></div>

What do you mean? The thing is similar to a Leupold Mark-4 16x and that scope does not need an extended base.</div></div>

The turret housing is very close to the ocular and thus precludes moving the scope closer to your eye except by using an extended base I had EGW design for us or by mounting the scope with both rings in front of the turrets.
 
#28
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the ocular does not need to be moved closer to your eye except maybe on A5 type stocks. </div></div>

It does on an A3 thats why I got rid of mine the eyerelief is very unforgiving.And as stated it can not be moved far enough back to get proper eye relief.Shooters that are a little taller or have longer necks probably didn't have a problem but I sure did.
 
#29
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, IOR seems to not even want to address the #2 issue with the 3-18, the length of the tube behing the turret housing. Which gives this scope a funky eye relief. The need to use a extended base to get proper eye relief is a deal breaker for me, and many others Im guessing.</div></div>

The 2.5-10 sounds great but like USMCj with me having a 14.25" LOP(McMillan A5) there was just too little eye relief and I couldn't get comfortable behind the rifle.

I even had the EGW extended base which is now just sitting in my safe as I sold the scope. The other thing with that base is that on the R700 I had to use Seekins rings and only them or the bolt handle would hit it in my experience. Even then the rings would block the ejection port for me.

I hope everything goes smooth for the Gen 4 and they earn a 100% reliability record.

 
#31
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

I didn;t have a problem with eye relief on my SH IOR on my A5. That said, I have a jacked up neck that has my head placement just forward of the average shooter's.
 
#32
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

I hope they thicken the walls of the scope tube on the Gen 4 3x18. I had one go down because the paint flaked off the inside of the tube. I think it was because the tubes were weak and when you torqed the rings (to spec) the tube flexed and paint on the inside of the tube lost it's mechanical adhesion properties and seperated.

There really are some nice features on the 3x18 but I'm a bit gun shy of IOR now. Just too many problems for me to really consider them as a serios player on the tactical optics market. My next purcase from Scott will be the new Vortex 5x20 tactical. I had the opourtunity to play with it for a few minutes at Rifle Only last week and I was very impressed.
 
#33
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm a bit gun shy of IOR now. Just too many problems for me to really consider them as a serios player on the tactical optics market. </div></div>

Interesting, last week you posted you had one and "love it"....


Anyone gun shy of their 3-18 SH IOR's, I've got a reliable 16X MK4 I'll trade you!
 
#34
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope they thicken the walls of the scope tube on the Gen 4 3x18. I had one go down because the paint flaked off the inside of the tube. I think it was because the tubes were weak and when you torqed the rings (to spec) the tube flexed and paint on the inside of the tube lost it's mechanical adhesion properties and seperated.

There really are some nice features on the 3x18 but I'm a bit <span style="color: #FF0000">gun shy</span> of IOR now. Just too many problems for me to really consider them as a serios player on the tactical optics market. My next purcase from Scott will be the new Vortex 5x20 tactical. I had the opourtunity to play with it for a few minutes at Rifle Only last week and I was very impressed. </div></div>


Gun shy? Or scope shy? yeah scope shy is better, LOL. BTW I'm really pleased to hear IOR is striving to fix all the issues with their products. And yeah you WONT be disappointed with the Razor either
wink.gif
 
#37
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Eye relief is a bit short on the previous versions, and some shooters can't get comfortable. I do not know if the eye relief has changed but I doubt it. The EGW rail has been a successful solution for many.

If I can be of assistance just let me know.

Scott
 
#39
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyhotfizzle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Scott needs to get off his butt and post some pics
grin.gif
</div></div>

Amen to that! My brother just ordered one from Scott last week. I don't get to see it until Thanksgiving. That's just not soon enough!
 
#40
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm really surprised anyone is contemplating trying to break into the 1K+ scope market in this economy. Sure, some of us can purchase a scope here or there, and there are a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">very few</span></span> who are more fortunate and are able to buy what they want. Everyone one else is hurting, or, are one layoff or shut down from hurting, so they're saving for things like food, a mortgage, electricity, vehicle payments...etc... </div></div>


No way man. Scope's way more important than food
 
#41
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

More new IOR scopes coming...
1) 3.5-18x50 FFP metric illuminated with the SH1 reticle
2) 6-24x56 FFP metric illuminated with the SH1 reticle
3) New version of the pit bull CQB with touch illumination
 
#43
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

I have an 2.5x10x42 IOR scope in first focal plane with MP-8 reticle.

I have a 2.5x10x42 IOR scope in second focal plane with MP-8 [illuminated dot] reticle.

I like the 2nd focal plane scope allot better. I don't use milliradians, and the FFP reticle is so fine at 2.5X, it almost goes invisible on a target. Certainly not fast acquisition, one of the goals of low power.

I do like the moa turret knobs, once they get adjusted. Sighting in the scope is a problem with the elevation adjustment disconnected from the dial. The elevation is easy to turn [and loose zero] while the clicks are hard to crank around.

The scopes on 10X are more clear than my MKIV Leupold on 10X.

I would buy another IOR, but it would have to be adjustable objective. My eyes are stuck in focus at 3', and the one adjustment on the eye piece will either focus the target or the reticle, but not both for me.
 
#44
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Clark,

Wow....Either I have a reading comprehension problem, or you have a writing problem or both.

Let's see, you own two 2.5-10 IOR's. One an FFP and one an SFP. You like the SFP better, because:

1) The reticle is too small @ 2.5x on the FFP one. Well sure that's a well known problem of sorts on all FFP scopes, not just IOR's.

2) Here's where I loose you: You don't use Miliradians? Great, so you bought the wrong scope, errr....twice? Because both your IOR's have the MP8 which is a Miliradian based reticle, which you apparently have no earthly use for.

3) You like the 1/2 MOA per turn on your SFP version: so I guess you don't like the 0.1 mil per turn on your FFP version, since you don't use miliradians at all?

4) You like the MOA knobs, except when you don't like them. OK... I agree that sighting in is a problem if your elevation adjustment is disconnected from the dial, how about when it's not disconnected? Oh then, the elevation is too easy to turn, but the clicks are hard to crank?? Say again over....

5) You would buy another IOR again, presumably if:

It's not FFP.
It has nothing to do with miliradians.
An elevation knob that works when disconnected from the turret, which would make sighting a real adventure....
An elevation knob that's harder to turn, but with clicks that are easier to "crank".

As long of course they don't crank in a language you don't speak, like miliradian. Which must be some obscure Romanian dialect, or a metric, foreign, Eur-a-peen thing.

And lastly you want a IOR that will unstick your eyeball focus which is stuck 3 feet (3') from the rifle.

Oh, and one that has adjustable parallax, instead of fixed parallax that is meant to be used @ 100 yds or greater.

Sterling review.
smile.gif


Thanks, I think,

Bob


 
#45
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would buy another IOR, but it would have to be adjustable objective. My eyes are stuck in focus at 3', and the one adjustment on the eye piece will either focus the target or the reticle, but not both for me. </div></div>

The eye piece adjustment is not made to focus the target. It is made to focus the reticle. You focus it to your eye and you do not need to adjust it again. They are not suppose to be constantly turned all the time. That is what is stupid about all these fast focus eye piece adjustments. That is one thing that Leupold has done very well, you adjust it lock it in place and that is it.
 
#46
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

Bob,

Successful people always blame themselves if they can, so they can find a way to do something better. You are right on the edge of success.

1) FFP small reticle on 2.5X?
It is like an ant on the wall waving at me.

2) I don't think IOR makes moa reticules.

3) Both scopes have moa turrets.

4) "Disconnected" is when two screws on the turret are loosened to make the "0" moa marking on the turret ring pointed at me and lined up with a mark, when the rifle is hitting point of aim at 200 yards. When the threaded elevation screw is disconnected from the moa marked ring and clicking mechanism, the screw must be held in place while the marking clicking is turned to zero. The screw changes position with ~0.1 inch pounds of torque, while the moa marked ring and clicker need ~2.0 inch pounds. If the elevation screw can be held still, and the moa marked ring rotated to zero, then the two screws can be tightened, and all is functional for reacting to different ranges.

The designers may have expected a person to set the ring on zero, loosen the two screws, and then sight in the rifle. When sighted in, the two screws were then tightened.
This does not help a guy who just sights the gun in by using the turret marks, and then wants to set the marker on zero.

5) I can ignore the busy milliradian markings on a reticle. I would not use the reticle, even if it were marked with moa.

LeicaCRF1200andchartfromQuickload.jpg

My system is to find the range with the range finder.
Then I dial elevation knob to what my chart says.
Then I shoot.
 
#47
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob,

Successful people always blame themselves if they can, so they can find a way to do something better. You are right on the edge of success.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I always liked living on the edge, thank you for making note of that...</span>

1) FFP small reticle on 2.5X?
It is like an ant on the wall waving at me.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I can see the ant now, waving Hi Clark, cool</span>

2) I don't think IOR makes moa reticules.

<span style="color: #FF0000">If you going to use MOA turrets, then a MOA reticle makes perfect sense</span>

3) Both scopes have moa turrets.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Ahh, I understand, I thought all the FFP IOR's had milradian based turrets, I stand corrected...</span>

4) "Disconnected" is when two screws on the turret are loosened to make the "0" moa marking on the turret ring pointed at me and lined up with a mark, when the rifle is hitting point of aim at 200 yards. When the threaded elevation screw is disconnected from the moa marked ring and clicking mechanism, the screw must be held in place while the marking clicking is turned to zero. The screw changes position with ~0.1 inch pounds of torque, while the moa marked ring and clicker need ~2.0 inch pounds. If the elevation screw can be held still, and the moa marked ring rotated to zero, then the two screws can be tightened, and all is functional for reacting to different ranges.

The designers may have expected a person to set the ring on zero, loosen the two screws, and then sight in the rifle. When sighted in, the two screws were then tightened.
This does not help a guy who just sights the gun in by using the turret marks, and then wants to set the marker on zero.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Understand. Now that makes much more sense, thank you</span>

5) I can ignore the busy milliradian markings on a reticle. I would not use the reticle, even if it were marked with moa.

<span style="color: #FF0000">This one still does not compute, for me. You bought two, but don't use the reticle; like MOA, but would not use one even if IOR offered one in MOA. OK whatever...

If I can hazard a guess, then ranging, holdovers/unders, and wind hold offs with any reticle is a useless endeavor for your purposes? </span>

My system is to find the range with the range finder.
Then I dial elevation knob to what my chart says.
Then I shoot. <span style="color: #FF0000">Got it Thank you</span></div></div>

Here's a picture of my IOR 3-18x42mm FFP @ 3x....

IOR3x-1-1.jpg


Hey the ant's waving at me too...What's up with that!!!!

Thanks for the dialog, all in good fun.

Have a sparkling day,

Bob

 
#48
Re: Finally, some news from IOR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunjunkie45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3.5-18x50 ffp illum? can anyone verify this? i'd love to pick one of those up. </div></div>

We can verify it being an IOR distributor in our country - news straight from IOR today.
 
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