First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

[Phylodog]

I've been reading through threads here and elsewhere about ultrasonic case cleaning and decided to give it a shot. I bought a Branson cleaner off of eBay for $110 shipped and it just showed up about an hour ago.

Not being the patient type I had to give it a quick test run just to see how it would do. I mixed up 2 cups water/2 cups vinegar & a few drops of dishsoap. I used a sugar dispenser like you'd find on the table at a diner and suspended it in the tank. Dropped 19 pieces of .308 brass into it and covered with the cleaning solution. Set the cleaner for 5 minutes and watched to see what happened.

Once it was done I rinsed the cases with hot tap water them covered them with a water/baking soda solution and back into the US cleaner for a 5 minute rinse. This is what I ended up with:

Dirty on the left, clean on the right, not much difference here

One of the cleaner pieces

A dirty case for comparison

The primer pockets were pretty decent, comparison pic

I've got a gallon of Citranox and a better beaker on order, should be in next week. I use ammo trays that I got from work to load ammo and I'm thinking about cutting one down to hold 25 pieces and lowering it directly into the tank rather than using a beaker suspended in the tank. It would seem that the vibrations would work better if they didn't have to "go through" a glass beaker. More cleanup would be involved but it might be worth it.

All in all I'm pleased so far. Primer pockets and case necks were the reason I wanted to give this a shot and they're definitely cleaner than my tumbler gets them.

Just thought I'd share...

 

[HotIce]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

I use IOSSO. It's not ultrasonic but a dive of 60 seconds makes the cases really clean.
After that I thoroughly rinse them in running water and let them dry in the oven at minimum temperature and with oven's door 1/3 open.
In 15 minutes (mostly the dry time) I can clean 500+ rounds.
Works very nice for me.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

The sugar shaker you used is almost assuredly too thick - attenuates too much of the US energy.

Directly suspending the cases in a rack will probably work... but your solution will get pretty foul fairly quickly. It'll keep working for a good while, though.

Took me a while, but I finally found a lid for mine (Bransonic 2510MTH) that had a hole for two 600ml beakers. I put 50/50 distilled water / white vinegar in the one, and the BC case prep solution in the other. I cycle cases through, 10 minutes in the first, dunk/rinse in tap water, then 10 minutes in the second, then a thorough rinse and let dry. Come out squeaky clean, inside necks and primer pockets. Took a while to figure out how to 'tune' the height of the fluid in the container vs. the tank level and the suspended height of the container to get the most 'boil' of the water inside the container i.e. maximum efficiency. BTW, I do tumble before hand to do the 'heavy lifting' and remove the big stuff off the outside - saves the US for the areas that really benefit from it.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[Phylodog]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Thanks Monte. I agree that the sugar shaker isn't optimal, I have another vessel coming but it won't be here until next week. The solution wasn't boiling at all when I had it running so I'm sure you're right.

Would you be willing to share what you've found to work well as far as the levels in the tank vs beaker?

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Trying to go from memory... and I'm about out the door to work to boot.

Tank level was at or right above the mark on the side, the one that says 'minimum fill' or something like that.

Level in the beakers is about the 300ml line, which works out to just above the case mouths, probably less than 1/4", for .308 Win.

Used rubber o-rings to adjust the height of the beaker in the main tank. I have the o-rings set but the tank and beaker are empty right now; I'd have to fill 'em back up to be able to say exactly how far down they were suspended into the tank solution.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Phylo, Monte's giving you great advice. And you are off to a great start.

My advice would be to first tune the tank/beaker combo. Simplest way to start that off, would be to establish a tank level (any level) and note what it is. Then take your beaker, with some liquid in it, and just hold it steady in the tank with both hands. With the unit on, slowly raise and lower the level of the beaker with your fingers. You will see visible differences in the liquid (in the beaker) and it will 'start to boil'.

Note the levels.

Then, you can experiment to accentuate the effect. Add/remove water from the tank, try again. Add/remove liquid from the beaker, try again. When you find the combo that your system likes, you will see a big difference! It's worth it in the beginning, to do this.

Secondly, I suggest the Birchwood Casey Case Cleaner, in one of the steps. Really makes things shine.

I have a thread here, from a few years ago where this is all drawn out. But I can't take any credit for the leadership of this, that goes to JB1000. I believe that he called it the "clean and shiny" method.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...9154#Post919154

Any questions, just ask.

 

[RL15]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

There was a article on ultra sonic cleaners on 6mmBR.com
Jason Bainey did the write up on the different solutions he tried, and I believe 50/50 water/ vinegar was the best.

I bought a US cleaner from harbor freight to try this out.
I did not use the beaker like most just filled it up and put 100 pieces of 223 in it. they looked great, took a while and then
wait for them to dry. I think my large dillon tumbler still has
the job for most of my reloading.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

As stated previous, it was Jason Baney(JB1000) who led this, and to which I'd referred to. Also, the 50/50 h2O-vinegar mix was only the FIRST soak, in a set of three. The BCCC was the second soak.

When done right, this works great.

You choose and decide for yourself.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

If you're cleaner doesn't have heat use boiling water. I use a mix of 50/50 water
and vinegar, teaspoon or two of lemishine (walmart) a liquid dishsoap with laurel
ammonia sulfate in it (it's the surfactant that helps not the soap) and the last thing
is about 7 drops of iodine. I found it was commonly used when searching brass cleaner patents. Use a canning jar instead of the sugar jar and add a blob of soap
to your tank water. Also adjust the amount of brass you clean at once, the magic
number for mine is 14 cases of 308. but they all differ. Also don't be afraid to run
it a little longer. I just do a rinse in cold water and baking soda and two rinses in
hot water. Tap the cases on a towel as they come out from the hot water and they
self dry pretty quickly..

 

[mattmcg]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

My setup includes a Crest US with top lid that holds 2 Kimax beakers. I use Citranox exclusively and blast the brass for 40 minutes. They come out shiny and new!

While this is slower than using a tumbler, it dispenses with the toxic dust in my garage. I'll take that tradeoff for sure....

 

[RL15]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Sean,

Its not about clean and shiny, or 50/50 water vinegar.
US cleaning takes to long to clean 1000 pieces of brass.
I shoot XTC as well as long range, as I have stated my Dillon has kept its job for most of my reloading.
If you think it make your ammo group better, then keep doing it.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

So, how does this Branson unit compare to the $79 HF unit? I know Monte has one of the higher end models, but it's quite a bit saltier too... like $480 on Egay...

 

[Phylodog]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, how does this Branson unit compare to the $79 HF unit? I know Monte has one of the higher end models, but it's quite a bit saltier too... like $480 on Egay... </div></div>

I'm not sure. I've never played with these so I have no point of reference unfortunately. The Branson seems to work well, stuck my fingers in there and it started pulling the dirt & grease out from around my fingernails. I guess it won't be a complete loss if the brass cleaning doesn't work out, lol.

The Citranox I ordered showed up today so I'm just waiting for a beaker to get rolling.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Kris,

It's like night and freakin' day. I have one of the digital Harbor Freight models with the 480 second timer, heater, etc. I don't have the units sitting in front of me, but the points I remember are... the 2510MTH and similar have two stout transducers, the little digital HF unit has only one. The heater on the 2510 is a bit more powerful as well. Just getting something other than that retarded 480 second digital timer is worth a fair amount of $$$ to me... no more babysitting the damn thing all the time. I'd hoped/planned on getting some more of the 'brand name' trays (specifically the perforated metal basket instead of the stock wire-mesh one), etc. but they seem all but impossible to find in stock anywhere.

The larger HF metal unit (and I believe it has a mechanical timer, not sure about heater) for $180-ish might be an option for ya. I got my 2510MTH for about $300 off ebay after a lot of patience

I know there are people out there who swear by their little digital ultrasonic units; all I did with mine was swear at it. Getting a 'proper' US unit changed my whole perspective on US cleaning from B.S. junk science to something that might actually be a viable (and valuable) addition to my reloading room.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Monte,

Yeah, I've had use of a friend's HF unit for a while... not really impressed with it. The load needs to be really small (~20 cases), otherwise it takes quite a few cycles to get the cases clean.

How big of loads (308 Win.) are you doing? And how long do they take? Any particular reason why you chose the model you did?

Kris

P.S. Lee Collet die does a nice job of unrolling the case mouths if they go for too long in ceramic. Pushes any burrs on the outside or inside forward and the Giraud takes care of them easily then.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

My HB ultrasonic cleaner works great for about 40 cases. But with that being said. It takes to long to do. I switched to stainless steel media in a thumbler model B. No more baby sitting the cases. Hot water dish soap and media. Four hours later and done.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Monte,

Thanks for sharing info (another thread) about Citranox. I tried it last night and it works extremely well. I can only do 25 pieces at a time but I'm usually not trying to get hundreds of rounds loaded and I have weeks between range trips so my little setup is going to work out very well for me.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

jrb572,

What do the primer pockets and insides of the neck look like after that?

Do you get any rolling of the case mouths?

 

[Jrb572]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

No real case mouth roll over. Maybe a quick hit with a debur tool. Necks and primer pockets clean. I think the post called tumbling media I posted some pics of .308 cases. Even beburs flash hole. The only other thing I found worked better with it was adding some degreaser from Sams. Just a touch of it maybe an ounce at most. Never realy measured it. But the only thing I use my ultrasonic cleaner for now is cleaning parts.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1268095&page=1

Looks nicer than my ceramic results... but it appears you still get the roll-over, which basically makes the case mouths look like they do on new cases.

 

[Suasponte]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

I used Citranox and a ultrasonic for a year or so until a buddy of mine told me about the Stainless steel media he had been using. I got 5lb off him and now have a ultrasonic cleaner that I use just to clean parts with.

The baby sitting is over and the results are better than the ultrasonic. I have had several guys on the forum that have switched to the SS media and all of them are extremely happy with the results. Maybe a few will chime in other than jrb572.

Terry

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Kris,

I think my HF unit was stretched pretty thin trying to do 20 cases at a time. Maybe if I did the umpteen-different 480s stages that Jason used in his article...

I chose the model I did based on it having the size tank I needed (3/4 gal), two transducers, mechanical timer (can set anywhere between 0-60 minutes, or to stay on indefinitely), heater, and basically from what I'd been reading the name brand units (Crest and Bransonic in particular) tend to live long enough to come up as used items on auction sites as ex-commercial units and still be serviceable. I know people who 'swear' by the small HF digital units... but they've also burned up one or two of them in the process.

I run two 600ml beakers - one with 50/50 distilled H20 and vinegar, the other BC Case Prep. I set the timer to 'continuous', turn on the heat, and set my little cooking timer to 10 minute cycles (generally I give the whole setup about 30 minutes to get up to temp and degas the solutions). I put 10 cases in the 1st beaker, let 'em go 10 minutes, then pull the beaker and pick them out using long tweezers from the hardware store, dunk 'em in a container of clean tap water, then set them in the 2nd beaker, and load the next 'batch' in the 1st beaker. Put both beakers back in, hit the timer and walk away for ten minutes - go prep brass or work on load notes or something. When the timer goes off, I pull the 2nd beaker, pick out each case and deposit them in a bowl. Pull the 1st beaker, dunk/rinse and transfer the cases to the 2nd, load the first again. Put 'em back in. Take the bowl with clean cases over to the deep sink, rinse them in *hot* water several times, set 'em in one of the big red MTM loading trays (I drilled little drainage holes in the center of each cavity). When I get a full tray, I go stick 'em in the kitchen oven @ 140F to dry. Rinse, lather, repeat as needed.

I've read about the stainless steel media elsewhere (Mid Tompkins reloading section in Nancy's book, I think) but I wasn't sure where to get the right size, etc. to make sure it gets the job done without getting stuck. Getting stuck was the deal killer for me with the ceramic media. The angle-cut ovoid sticks get stuck inside, broken pieces get wedged in the primer pockets, etc. The super fine spheres seemed to want to stick to the cases and were a PITA to get separated fully. If the stainless media is more user friendly, I might be willing to give it a try over the winter. I tumbled some cases way too long in the ceramic media and got a hellacious burr on the mouth - even deburring didn't seem to get rid of all of it. Ended up trimming the cases extra short - 2.000" - in the Giraud to get rid of it all.

YMMV,

MOnte

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Thanks Monte!

I don't see how the SS pins wouldn't do that either. I've done some experiment with tumbling the cases alone and it's happened. Although, maybe if the tumbler was full of water, it would dampen it and that wouldn't happen as much. Next time try a collet die, it will iron that burr right out if you size twice, turning the case a bit in between to the the area between the fingers of the collet.

Nice thing about the US is that it isn't even an issue. But, it seems a lot more time consuming.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

The additions and inputs are great here. There are definitely varying opinions as well. Everybody has 'em, and that's cool.

You can read this or skip over it, but my opinion is this:

I have used the Dillon vibratory case cleaning system for around 15 years. It works, it's ok, beats wiping/scrubbing/polishing individual brass by hand. But it has it's drawbacks as well.

Seeing as I already had the equipment, and most of the chemicals, I thought I'd give this a shot. As explained earlier, many times, this was a trail blazed by another who established a great baseline. I followed his lead.

The initial setup/tuning/organizing does take time. Sure. I'll grant you that. What doesn't? But the end result now, is worth it. (Remember, this is MY opinion) Now that I have a 'system' I can actually get quite a bit of brass done in a relatively short time. I also have intents of getting more done, with getting different beakers, and whatnot. Minor issue.

While there is some progress made with the 50/50 mix on the first cycle, the hugest majority of the work is done on/during the second cycle with the B.C.C.C. That stuff works wonders. And the chemical mixes are recyclable. I put each back into a container and then let the sediment settle. Clears right up, and use it again.

To add to this, I get the brass done, while I'm doing something else. Be it resizing, or cleaning/tweaking something, or whatever. Point being, it doesn't need to be constantly babysat or anything. When the timer goes off, change the beaker.

Is it perfect, no. Is it damn good, YES. The only perfect method of cleaning brass, is opening a brand new box of live ammo whenever you want to fire something. And that brings us to the 'perfect load' discussion which will take place somewhere else. It is the perfectest way for me at this moment. But like I said, I had the equipment to start with, and took the time to tune both it and the system.

Just another thing added to the memory/knowledge/ability banks. Is it for everyone, no. That isn't even implied. Neither is vibratory cleaning. In some cases, (pun intended) cleaning in general isn't needed. According to others, of course.

Enjoy, knock yourself out, go float your boats, and prosper. Whatever blows your hair back.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: First attempt at ultrasonic case cleaning

Monte,

I hate to call you a liar...

















...so, I'm really glad you aren't one!

I picked up a 2510MTH and WOW! It is a world of difference. It gets the cases clean in minutes. I just used a tea spoon of Lemishine in warm water.

I also tried using it to get the carbon off of my FTE, something the $79 HF unit couldn't do after numerous attempts in various solutions and solvents. Well this thing sure got the carbon off... AND HALF OF THE FINISH TOO!

Oh well, nothing a shot of bar-b-q paint can't fix.

Kris