First Bolt Action Build

[cjs88]

I have been lurking in various forums reading all kinds of information about each piece for a bolt action build and finally decided I would join and ask my own questions. I am building an elk hunting gun and have narrowed it to 300WM or 300RUM. (for now, open to others) Getting a Deviant hunter action, manners stock, and already have a triggertech special. I am still having trouble deciding on a barrel though. I am looking at a Proof Research CF barrel but then stumbled across an old post detailing how weak they are or were.

Gunsmithing - Carbon Wrapped Barrels, More PROOF

There's been a lot of debate surrounding barrels that are wrapped with Carbon Fiber. The claims are that they dissipate heat faster, last exponentially longer than non-wrapped barrels and are just plain "magic." I'm of the opinion that Carbon Wrapped barrels have their place on lighter weight...

www.snipershide.com

Are the problems mentioned in that post fixed or should I stay away from them? Price isn't really a factor because Proof offers a military discount. If those problems aren't fixed I was looking at Bartlein as an alternative.

I am open to all suggestions for all the parts in my build, except trigger because I already have it. Let me hear them!

 

[Steel head]

That was a good while ago and I believe they’ve come a long way since them in both materials and manufacturing.

I’m in the carbon composites industry and can tell you the resins available to not top secret types is a lot improved since then as well.

If I was wanting a really light rifle a CF proof would be 100% a consideration.

 

[goosed]

I have been lurking in various forums reading all kinds of information about each piece for a bolt action build and finally decided I would join and ask my own questions. I am building an elk hunting gun and have narrowed it to 300WM or 300RUM. (for now, open to others) Getting a Deviant hunter action, manners stock, and already have a triggertech special. I am still having trouble deciding on a barrel though. I am looking at a Proof Research CF barrel but then stumbled across an old post detailing how weak they are or were.

Gunsmithing - Carbon Wrapped Barrels, More PROOF

There's been a lot of debate surrounding barrels that are wrapped with Carbon Fiber. The claims are that they dissipate heat faster, last exponentially longer than non-wrapped barrels and are just plain "magic." I'm of the opinion that Carbon Wrapped barrels have their place on lighter weight...

www.snipershide.com

Are the problems mentioned in that post fixed or should I stay away from them? Price isn't really a factor because Proof offers a military discount. If those problems aren't fixed I was looking at Bartlein as an alternative.

I am open to all suggestions for all the parts in my build, except trigger because I already have it. Let me hear them!

Didn't read the full thread you linked, but proof barrels are squared away kit now and it looks like you have already have a solid build list going with some very nice components. I wouldn't change a thing as you have clearly done your homework.

Just a couple things to be aware of if you aren't already, carbon barrels are only lighter if you need a barrel with enough meat to run a suppressor(no mention of one?). Other wise sporter profile stainless barrels are actually lighter. The other is if you reload your own ammo there are others options with similar performance and a few less headaches. If you plan on using factory box ammo, stick with the easy to find options you already listed as the headaches only exist when reloading.

 

[Secant]

I only have 1 proof barrel, but it’s every bit as good as my bartleins & benchmark. Just a smidge over 1/2 MOA for 5 & 10 shot groups. That’s factory ammo out of a Ti/Ca magnum, and no doubt I’m the weak link. I’ll definitely buy more.

 

[cjs88]

Didn't read the full thread you linked, but proof barrels are squared away kit now and it looks like you have already have a solid build list going with some very nice components. I wouldn't change a thing as you have clearly done your homework.

Just a couple things to be aware of if you aren't already, carbon barrels are only lighter if you need a barrel with enough meat to run a suppressor(no mention of one?). Other wise sporter profile stainless barrels are actually lighter. The other is if you reload your own ammo there are others options with similar performance and a few less headaches. If you plan on using factory box ammo, stick with the easy to find options you already listed as the headaches only exist when reloading.

I have suppressor ordered from Larue but they have only tested it with 300WM and even then they aren't sure how many rounds it would last with the extra power of that caliber compared to regular .308 calibers it is designed for. I wouldn't mind finding a suppressor rated for the magnum calibers but not sure how it will affect the rifle. The barrel as it is will be 24" most suppressors are 6-8".

On the topic of muzzle devices, what are some good options for a bolt action?

 

[cjs88]

Also, for the calibers I am looking at, what is a respectable total rifle weight for minimizing recoil?

 

[fdkay]

Also, for the calibers I am looking at, what is a respectable total rifle weight for minimizing recoil?

Just a couple of things.
You have already discovered that the lighter the rifle, the more the apparent recoil.
I will tell you this, a suppressor significantly reduces recoil. Not as much as a good brake, but very close.
Your two cartridge selections are known to produce significant recoil, the RUM more so.
The .300 WM is an excellent cartridge, the .300 PRC is coming along nicely.

Now, there is NOTHING wrong with those selections, but I must ask, if you believe recoil might be a concern, why have you dismissed the 7mm Magnum option? Even on extreme range shots, the 7mm carries enough punch to drop an elk. remember, WDM Bell used the 7x57 mauser to kill over 1000 elephants. Admittedly, the shots were close, but the 7mm bore penetrates deeper and drops less than comparable .30 cal bullets with the benefit of lighter recoil. To really reap the benefits of the 7mm, you'll need to reload though. Manufacturers, for some reason love to load it with light weight, low BC bullets.
Also worthy of consideration is the 6.5 PRC. Keep in mind, the swedes have been using the 6.5x55 for over 100 years to take moose. The moose in their area are around the same size as our elk. My dad took two elk with the swede.

In regards to the suppressor, I run a 100% titanium .300 WM rated suppressor, it weighs in the neighborhood of 15 ounces.
There are several manufacturers that make good Ti cans, they weigh less than the inconel and stainless cans.

 

[cjs88]

Just a couple of things.
You have already discovered that the lighter the rifle, the more the apparent recoil.
I will tell you this, a suppressor significantly reduces recoil. Not as much as a good brake, but very close.
Your two cartridge selections are known to produce significant recoil, the RUM more so.
The .300 WM is an excellent cartridge, the .300 PRC is coming along nicely.

Now, there is NOTHING wrong with those selections, but I must ask, if you believe recoil might be a concern, why have you dismissed the 7mm Magnum option? Even on extreme range shots, the 7mm carries enough punch to drop an elk. remember, WDM Bell used the 7x57 mauser to kill over 1000 elephants. Admittedly, the shots were close, but the 7mm bore penetrates deeper and drops less than comparable .30 cal bullets with the benefit of lighter recoil. To really reap the benefits of the 7mm, you'll need to reload though. Manufacturers, for some reason love to load it with light weight, low BC bullets.
Also worthy of consideration is the 6.5 PRC. Keep in mind, the swedes have been using the 6.5x55 for over 100 years to take moose. The moose in their area are around the same size as our elk. My dad took two elk with the swede.

In regards to the suppressor, I run a 100% titanium .300 WM rated suppressor, it weighs in the neighborhood of 15 ounces.
There are several manufacturers that make good Ti cans, they weigh less than the inconel and stainless cans.

I have looked briefly at the 7mm. My main source of information is various articles on the internet and my dad’s former SWAT sniper buddy who uses the 300RUM. I did look at the 6.5 PRC this morning and it could be a possibility. Recoil isn’t too much of a factor, I just don’t want to make a super light rifle and have the recoil be out of control. The biggest recoil rifle I have now is my kar98k which is heavy and hits tour shoulder hard. I also heard 30.06 is a proven elk round and even saw a story that Teddy Roosevelt went safari hunting with one and his buddy took down an elephant with it.

I turned to posting here to look for more suggestions to help me build a quality rifle. I appreciate all of the feedback and suggestions so far.

 

[Chickentoast]

Been itching to try a short, fatty - might try the Sherman 300 Max, but the 300 WSM on a med/long action throated for 215's sounds great too.

And re: WDM Bell - 1000 elephants... what a dick.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

On the topic of muzzle devices, what are some good options for a bolt action?

Area 419, American Precision Arms, and Patriot Valley Arms all have excellent muzzle breaks. They all tame recoil in a significant way. This may be important if you plan on practicing with your rifle before a hunt (which you should be doing).

 

[Steel head]

Area 419, American Precision Arms, and Patriot Valley Arms all have excellent muzzle breaks. They all tame recoil in a significant way. This may be important if you plan on practicing with your rifle before a hunt (which you should be doing).

I’d also add the insite Heathen.
less blasty than most and would be awesome in a hunting application.

 

[TaylorBacon]

I have looked briefly at the 7mm. My main source of information is various articles on the internet and my dad’s former SWAT sniper buddy who uses the 300RUM. I did look at the 6.5 PRC this morning and it could be a possibility. Recoil isn’t too much of a factor, I just don’t want to make a super light rifle and have the recoil be out of control. The biggest recoil rifle I have now is my kar98k which is heavy and hits tour shoulder hard. I also heard 30.06 is a proven elk round and even saw a story that Teddy Roosevelt went safari hunting with one and his buddy took down an elephant with it.

I turned to posting here to look for more suggestions to help me build a quality rifle. I appreciate all of the feedback and suggestions so far.

If a 98k gives you any sort of trouble, stay away from a lightweight 300RUM. That's a significant increase in recoil if not braked.

 

[cjs88]

So after more reading, suggestions, and seeing other builds I think I am getting closer to solidifying my choices. Looking at 6.5PRC now and an AG Gladius stock. Anyone have experience with these options?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

6.5 PRC/SAUM (relatively the same/same +/- 50 fps) will kill elk at 400 yards easy. And that’s still a long shot for majority of hunters.

If you don’t yet own a suppressor, consider buying an Area 419 hellfire brake and then their suppressor adapter when you get your suppressor. That way you can shoot with the brake for a year while you wait for the tax stamp...

 

[cjs88]

6.5 PRC/SAUM (relatively the same/same +/- 50 fps) will kill elk at 400 yards easy. And that’s still a long shot for majority of hunters.

If you don’t yet own a suppressor, consider buying an Area 419 hellfire brake and then their suppressor adapter when you get your suppressor. That way you can shoot with the brake for a year while you wait for the tax stamp...

What suppressor would you recommend? I've been interested in the SilencerCo Hybrid for a while, for use on my pistols. I do have a Tranquilo order in for brake and suppressor.

 

[acudaowner]

be as nit picky as you can , look at all your options , have a blast with all the choices and options out there . and always remember the 5 d's of dodge ball .

 

[Secant]

What suppressor would you recommend? I've been interested in the SilencerCo Hybrid for a while, for use on my pistols. I do have a Tranquilo order in for brake and suppressor.

Thunderbeast is the current standard for a precision can - I’d go Ultra-7 for a hunting rifle. Some guys like the brake attach. A direct thread works great as well and avoids the costs of brakes for extra rifles.

for cartridge, everyone has an opinion. A 6.5 can do the trick, I prefer the 7’s.....and 30 magnums are for tourists & transplants, haha.

 

[MallNinja243]

I can't believe I haven't seen this yet, but... Any centerfire cartridge in NA can do the job depending on distance and shot placement. That being said, the larger calibers tend to expel the most energy inside the target (animal in this case). 6.5s and 7s are more ballistics friendly.

Whichever cartridge/barrel/suppressor/brake combo you choose, just make sure it is one you can get a few hundred well documented rounds down range with before putting the rubber on the road. Confidence and experience with the rifle outweighs the power for the most part.

If your personal ethical shot maximum is 400yd, shoot at smaller targets from 400 - 800 so the 250 - 400yd money shot is easy.

Not knowing where you are located, try to get some good range time near where you plan to hunt if it is at a substantial elevation change from where your home range is.

 

[cjs88]

Anyone have experience with the brakes for the Thunderbeast Ultra 7s? I think I'm going to go with that since they are rated for 6.5PRC. I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone. Keep them coming!

 

[fdkay]

I can't believe I haven't seen this yet, but... Any centerfire cartridge in NA can do the job depending on distance and shot placement. That being said, the larger calibers tend to expel the most energy inside the target (animal in this case). 6.5s and 7s are more ballistics friendly.

Whichever cartridge/barrel/suppressor/brake combo you choose, just make sure it is one you can get a few hundred well documented rounds down range with before putting the rubber on the road. Confidence and experience with the rifle outweighs the power for the most part.

If your personal ethical shot maximum is 400yd, shoot at smaller targets from 400 - 800 so the 250 - 400yd money shot is easy.

Not knowing where you are located, try to get some good range time near where you plan to hunt if it is at a substantial elevation change from where your home range is.

.17 hornet might be a little light, even for a head shot.

 

[goosed]

Anyone have experience with the brakes for the Thunderbeast Ultra 7s? I think I'm going to go with that since they are rated for 6.5PRC. I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone. Keep them coming!

I have both the Ultra 7 and a Hybrid. I like both for different reasons and both will work well for your needs.

I like the size and weight of the ultra 7 better for hunting. I also trust the build quality of the TB more for heavy round count situations.

I like the versatility of the Hybrid. The anchor brake actually cuts down on recoil quite a bit more than a flat end cap. It makes for a nice middle ground between suppressor and brake. Both in terms of recoil and sound.

As far as loudness I don't have a decibel meter to give any empirical data. To my ear though the ultra 7 gives off a slightly deeper tone that I find slightly more pleasing to my ear.


With that said my personal hunting preference is for barrels far shorter than you're looking at. A 7" can on a 24" barrel quickly becomes cumbersome in wooded areas. Not sure how you hunt, but if it's not in wide open areas I wouldn't recommend toting a 30" barrel/can combo around. If fact, not only would I not recommend, but I strongly advise against any barrel/suppressor combo over 26" if you will be hiking through any type of brush for more than 100yds at a time during the hunt.

 

[cjs88]

I have both the Ultra 7 and a Hybrid. I like both for different reasons and both will work well for your needs.

I like the size and weight of the ultra 7 better for hunting. I also trust the build quality of the TB more for heavy round count situations.

I like the versatility of the Hybrid. The anchor brake actually cuts down on recoil quite a bit more than a flat end cap. It makes for a nice middle ground between suppressor and brake. Both in terms of recoil and sound.

As far as loudness I don't have a decibel meter to give any empirical data. To my ear though the ultra 7 gives off a slightly deeper tone that I find slightly more pleasing to my ear.


With that said my personal hunting preference is for barrels far shorter than you're looking at. A 7" can on a 24" barrel quickly becomes cumbersome in wooded areas. Not sure how you hunt, but if it's not in wide open areas I wouldn't recommend toting a 30" barrel/can combo around. If fact, not only would I not recommend, but I strongly advise against any barrel/suppressor combo over 26" if you will be hiking through any type of brush for more than 100yds at a time during the hunt.

Appreciate the feedback. I'm not sure where I'll be hunting, somewhere in Idaho where my dad lives with his buddy who hunts. What would be the shortest barrel to keep the 6.5PRC as effective as possible?

 

[goosed]

Appreciate the feedback. I'm not sure where I'll be hunting, somewhere in Idaho where my dad lives with his buddy who hunts. What would be the shortest barrel to keep the 6.5PRC as effective as possible?

That's not a simple question...

Sectional density, retained weight, expansion rate, kinetic energy and velocity all play significant roles. In my experience bullet design is far more critical than anything other factor besides shot placement. Yet, hunting isn't something you can do with lab grade precision so I won't pretend to have the answer to "effective as possible".

In the end it's all a game of trade offs so don't get too caught up in trying to find the "best" or "fastest". If my out dated and obsolete 18" 30-06 can do it (and it has) an 18" suppressed 6.5PRC will do just fine with the right bullets.

 

[fdkay]

Appreciate the feedback. I'm not sure where I'll be hunting, somewhere in Idaho where my dad lives with his buddy who hunts. What would be the shortest barrel to keep the 6.5PRC as effective as possible?

The issue you're going to run into is this: the 6.5 prc is a short magnum. It is a relatively large powder charge that requires more barrel to burn the powder, couple that with the fact that it tends to be loaded with very slow powders to extend throat life. 26 inches is pretty typical though 24 is common.
I would think much of that can be mitigated by handloading with faster powders and going to 22 inches. Barrel life will suffer. A 7mm SAUM is less overbore, but reloading is the only option.

 

[MallNinja243]

.17 hornet might be a little light, even for a head shot.

Possibly. That could just turn into a big animal with a headache.

 

[cjs88]

When it comes to shank diameter and breech length, does that matter? I have options for my barrel of 1.2" or 1.25" shank and only 2.5" breech.