First post, first obvious question

[steelejones]

Hi everyone,

Im very new to the shooting community. And new to this forum. Ive been reading for a few days and am ready to embark on my this new to me sport of long range precision shooting. I purchased my first gun a few months ago. An AR15 with 16" barrel. Ive been addicted to target shooting every since. It has become quite apparent that im having trouble keeping up with my friends who are shooting factory winchester .223's with decent glass.

I know I need to spend that majority of my money in glass, but right now as most people I have a limited budget and plan to build this gun over the course of this winter in time to kick some ass this coming spring. My goal is to shock the hell out of everyone this spring with my new baby. I want to build this winter, and buy lots of ammo to zero in by myself in secrecy in the early spring, show up and kick butt!

Now with that being said and with my limited budget, ive been reading some posts about how great the Savage model 12 LRP's are out of the box and epecially with some good glass riding on top.

These guns are pushing 1k from what I can see and this is definately pushing my budget for my bench gun project. Right now we are only shooting 100 yard, but can forsee us moving these out to 200-300 yards.

Am I heading in the right directions with my limitations ? Please hold off on the talk of optics, ill cross that bridge wtih all of you when the time comes and Ill do whats nessessary in terms of optics this coming spring. Right now I want to really concentrate on the gun and get the best bang for my buck for what im trying to do.

I love this community and hope you can help.

Thanks again in advance.

 

[steelejones]

Re: First post, first obvious question

Also meant to add, ive seen at the local Wally World a Remington model 700 that alot of people are shooting. They are on sale right now for only $399. Any thoughts ?

 

[Get Hard Art]

Re: First post, first obvious question

Can't really go wrong with a 700 SPS TAC 20''. They go for pretty cheap anywhere. Score a H-S take-off from a 700P/PSS and that setup should be under $700. Or you can just go for the 700P straight away if you want a 26'' barrel. Good luck.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: First post, first obvious question

The 700 route will certainly be a safe one and you can get a lot of components, upgrades, etc. Good rifles and easy to turn into exactly what you want.

One suggestion... while you build your 700... invest in a quality Target-Grade .22. Get a good Bolt gun such as a Remington 541 or similar or a worked-over accurized 10-22 semi with a match barrel and quality trigger. Then buy about 10 bricks of quality (ie Rem, Winch, CCI, PMC, etc) ammo..

After shooting the .22 rifle with iron sights for a while... Put a decent scope on the it (ideally, w. the same style reticle as the scope on your 700).

Concentrate on trigger squeeze, scope hold, consistency, shooting position, cheek weld, etc. Shoot from 20 yards out to about 100 yards. Shoot a box every day if you can. On the days when you can't shoot... dry fire. You can do this in your house.

Then come spring, your shooting skills with both your new rifle (and your AR-15) will be top notch. I think I will speak for a lot of people here by saying: there is no substitute for rounds down range. And the rounds don't have to be .308's or 5.56's!

Your investment in a good .22LR will pay off many-fold.

Cheers and regards,

Sirhr

(PS. If you are in an area where you can't shoot a .22 often enough... there are some top-notch target-grade Air Rifles out there. Very, very accurate. Quiet. Safe. Rounds down range from a good air rifle... count!)

 

[subwofer2]

Re: First post, first obvious question

Great first post! Welcome to the community, folks here are extremely helpful, so long as you don't tell them you want to be "schooled" on which new "sniper" rifle you should get.

Again, judging by your first post, you won't be one of these guys. I'm certain, armed with what you'll learn here, you'll clean up come spring.

 

[aussiegolf89]

Re: First post, first obvious question

I personally like the savage 10's or 12's. I have a 10fp-sr .223 suppressed that shoots extreamly well. I have a 12 .204 that ive hit prarie dogs at 550yds, and a 110ba .338 lapua that will shoot a 2.75 group(so far) at 1000yds and i have hit a mile with it. I had a remington 700 sps tac. It was a great rifle but not as smooth in the bolt as the savages. Do some reading on the posts guys on here post and get what you think is the best. Good luck!

 

[FALex]

Re: First post, first obvious question

assuming you want to stick with the .223? The only issue I had with the Rem SPS-T's was the 1:12 twist, the AAC-SD has a 1:9 (stabilizing heavier bullets, maximizing distance). Of course, I have to do my sales pitch here...Savage has a beautiful factory rifle(since you mentioned the Model 12), it is a Model 10fcp-k. 24" Heavy, fluted and braked barrel feels like an actual .22. They are laser beams, you can find them for about 6-700. Another is the newer model 10fp-sr with the 20" barrel and threaded barrel, also a 9 twist. Some don't like the accutrigger but I love the damn thing! Savage, Savage!

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: First post, first obvious question

Welcome to the board. I can tell you that you will never learn or know enough about this hobby.

First bit of advise. You need to evaluate 4 things before you "shock the hell out of people" or "kick butt".

1. What type of rifle are you using?
Two mass produced, and most commonly used:
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Remington 700</span>- The small block chevy of rifles. Can be found in basic configurations for under $400. They also have the largest aftermarket when it comes to parts and accessories. Rigs built off of these can be done to a point as a DIY project. Headspacing, barrel replacements, and anything beyond bedding and painting should be done by a gunsmith. Good out of the box.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Savage 10/110/Stevens 200 </span>-Gained popularity in this particular field of shooting due to good out-of-the-box accuracy, ease of DIY work, and a growing aftermarket. Folks familiar with this particular rifle know what makes these rifles sing. Many guys like these because they can do their own barrel swaps with a few simple specialty tools. Can be had for as low as $200 if you look enough.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Winchester Model 70</span>- Recent models I hear are decent, with the pre-64 actions being the most wanted since QC took a bit of a dive after that. Very good rifles, long history like the 700, even the post-64 rifles fetch a decent price. Aftermarket is fair at best.

Then there are all the others. Sako and Tikka are popular. Then you have custom actions, which you really cant go wrong, but they may be out of your price range. If I didnt list it, that doesnt mean it isnt good. Just trying to keep it in perspective here.

2. Optics- we all have our preferences. The general consensus is to spend as much on optics as you do your rifle. However, there are some other budget alternatives. The list of good ones is long. Most shooters here prefer some sort of a milling reticle. One of the biggest preferences I see, and agree with is a reticle that matches the adjusments your scope makes. Example- Your reticle has 1/4 moa adjustments, then get a reticle that is graduated in moa. The same for mil/mil. Mil/mil is preferred because the mildot reticle and its decendants are more common. Just about all the scope makers have some form of a mildot reticle. I can honestly tell you that you WILL ABSOLUTELY spend more time learning about scopes and optics than you will deciding on the rifle they are for.

3. Ammo- Once you have picked a rifle, chose a scope, now you need ammo. This goes back to your choice of rifle, because when you pick the rifle, bare in mind that you need to have a caliber in mind. Everyone here will suggest their favorite, but there is no difinitive answer. Most common is the .308. Factors to help you determine this would be to simply visit a few gun shops and see whats available. Check online vendors. Don't pick a caliber so exotic that you need to search the whole North American continent, and when you find it, 20 rounds cost $65. Pick one that has a variety of ammo available. Some only come in a standard hunting or FMJ target load, with match ammo not even made, or only one ammo maker with one match grade offering of it. Thats the reason the .308Win is so popular. There is probably a dozen ammo makers that offer just as many loads for this round. Perhaps you may want to reload your own at some point. That can give you a bullet custom made to your needs.

4. This is perhaps the most important item that is, so often, overlooked in precision rifle shooting.... Yourself. You admitted you are very new to this. There are folks who have probably spent more time doing this than I have been alive. They have forgotten more shit than I have learned. With that said, even they miss the target once and a while. Time and experienced are not something you can squeeze in during the winter. Forget impressing anyone except yourself. The most experienced shooter will outshoot the best built rifle. This is where a decent .22lr will save you money and give you experience. Learn trigger squeeze, breathing, sight picture, bolt manipulation, shooting position....ect. This is something you need to commit yourself to. A good rifle with good optics, and quality ammo is a wad of shit if the person driving it cant drive. There is nothing impressive about a guy with a $7,000 rifle if he cant hit what he is aiming at, or his groups look like buckshot spread. Dont worry about shooting at 1k yards, learn to shoot at 100-300. Do it until you are so good you are bored. Push it out further, bring it back in. Anyone can set up a target at 1k yards and lob enough lead that some will eventually hit. Experienced shooters can set up with the ability to hit a target at 400yds if needed, back to 250, hit, then to 850, hit, and bring the scope back to a zero and group at 100. That is something impressive. That is what kicks ass.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: First post, first obvious question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
4. This is perhaps the most important item that is, so often, overlooked in precision rifle shooting.... Yourself. You admitted you are very new to this. There are folks who have probably spent more time doing this than I have been alive. They have forgotten more shit than I have learned. With that said, even they miss the target once and a while. Time and experienced are not something you can squeeze in during the winter. Forget impressing anyone except yourself. The most experienced shooter will outshoot the best built rifle. This is where a decent .22lr will save you money and give you experience. Learn trigger squeeze, breathing, sight picture, bolt manipulation, shooting position....ect. This is something you need to commit yourself to. A good rifle with good optics, and quality ammo is a wad of shit if the person driving it cant drive. There is nothing impressive about a guy with a $7,000 rifle if he cant hit what he is aiming at, or his groups look like buckshot spread. Dont worry about shooting at 1k yards, learn to shoot at 100-300. Do it until you are so good you are bored. Push it out further, bring it back in. Anyone can set up a target at 1k yards and lob enough lead that some will eventually hit. Experienced shooters can set up with the ability to hit a target at 400yds if needed, back to 250, hit, then to 850, hit, and bring the scope back to a zero and group at 100. That is something impressive. That is what kicks ass. </div></div>

There are more truths in this statement than the OP may realize. I'm no seasoned pro, but I spend a lot of time dry firing in my living room at Dish Network satellites, headlights, birds, etc about 500 yards away to work on the basics when I can't make it to the range. If I'm low on cash, my 10/22 becomes my rifle of choice. Somehow, I find myself behind a rifle every couple of days for about an hour. It's entertaining to get on the rifle range next to a guy that laughs at your "Off the shelf rifle" and Commercial ammo from a cardboard box while he has handloads, sandbags galore, a ridiculous tripod and a rifle/scope combo that rivals the price of your car....but not as entertaining as ringing the gongs like sunday morning while he misses every other shot.

Welcome to the addiction. A .22lr is a great idea to save money and get TONS of practice!!

 

[steelejones]

Re: First post, first obvious question

Wow thanks guys, those are some fine words. Its not very many places online where a 'newbie' can come and get a nice welcome.

Ive narrowed down my first purchase to a Rem 700 tac or a Savage 12 at this point. Both are in my budget and I believe will give me a good start out of the box.

I plan to shoot as often as I can, i have gone every weekend this summer working on shooting. I LOVE IT!

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: First post, first obvious question

You could also look into the online training that Lowlight offers here on the hide. Current funding prohibits me from doing it right now, but I have heard it has helped out a lot of guys. The best thing about being new, and lacking experience is you also lack bad habits. Starting off with a good program with a thirst of knowlege is better than trying to break years of doing it wrong.

Oh, and while I do have love for the 10/22, if its a bolt rifle you plan on getting, then get a .22 thats a bolt action. A stock with similar ergonomics to your centerfire will keep the feel of practicing the .22 more seemless.

 

[car2go4]

Re: First post, first obvious question

+++1 on the 22lr. If you have any budget constraints it's by far the wisest investment you can make. don't overlook the older win 52's for an economic quality 22lr