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Gunsmithing First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Hawk45

Hawk45

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
Mar 29, 2002
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Ohio
#1
Finally got up the courage to try to bed my Savage 10 into a Prarie Dog Special from Kevin Rahill. Rifle was shooting decent groups but looking for that extra edge and I like to tinker so figured I'd give it a go.

Tried with Marine-Tex gray (had local), plumbers putty, Johnson's Paste Wax and some Hornady One shot.

Roughed up the inside of the stock. Put in my putty (blind mag, action and small spots), taped the barrel to sit in middle of channel, taped stock and action, waxed/buffed action (inside and out), sprayed with One Shot too (just in case). Degreased the stock and mixed the compound. put the compound in, set the action down and couldn't get the action screws in.. Pulled it out and tried again and got the screws going in..but noticed the sticky bedding sticking to the action and stock. Figured since it's gooey it might.. so I set everything back in and tighted my action screws (not super tight but enough to get the action level). I noticed I got bedding compound on the screws so I kept turning them every half-hour or so to make sure they wouldn't set. MAN WAS I NERVOUS!!! Waited till it setup for about 4-5hrs and could barely make a dent in the compund with my finger nail. I wanted to try to release it so I could trim up and verify it was not stuck (figured I could redo if I messed it up). And sure enough.. when I pulled it out lots of bedding was on the action and pulled up from the stock. I got it all off the action and cleaned up the stock. At least there is plenty of grip for the next try in the stock now.

Did I not use enough release agent? Or did I just get too nervous and pop my load too early. If I would have let go you think I would have been ok? I caoted several times with the Johnson's and buffed clean.. then hit with One Shot just to make sure. Maybe took too much of the wax off in buffing and not enough One Shot?

Was thinking of trying again.. but with Devcon 10110 and getting some other release agent.. maybe the Brownells stuff to be safe.

Also.. would you recommend using the action screws again if I do the second time? Or should I just get some long bolts and attach to the action first before setting it in the stock.. then secure with electrical tape? I've seen the "stress free" instructions by RichardsCustom and also read other threads that recommend using the action screws and tightening them down.

Hopefully my mistakes can help others willing to give this a try.

Thanks,
Hawk
 
#2
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

if you haven't already, you might wanna read this thread..

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1167022#Post1167022

contains a lot of good information
smile.gif
sorry your bedding attempt didn't work out, but as they say, you've gotta break some eggs before you can make an omelet.. best of luck on your next attempt.
 
#4
#5
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Thanks guys..

I read that thread along with a lot of others and made a few bad choices. I'm going to do it the way wnroscoe did his and should turn out better. Going to get the supplies tomorrow.

Think the Marine-tex is ok to use or should I go with the Devcon? I've got another 2oz kit of MarineTex.
 
#6
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

First off,
I have seen some bedding jobs where the compound just wasn't mixed well enough. That makes inconsistent uniformity. Also not using enough bedding compound, makes for voids as well. Not saying that is your issue, just things to look out for.
 
#7
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

I'd use the brownells steel bed from the get go if it was me. I've used it a bunch of times and it works great, as well as being significantly stronger than most of the other stuff available.
 
#9
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

marine tex is fine, devcon , or the steel bed. all great products to me and i wouldnt hesitate to use one of the other. i use the brownells aerosol release agent just cause its easy as shit, one can last forever, and you get complete coverage. definately use headless bolts or action inletting screws and not your action bolts. make sure that the stock is well prepped, ie rough enough to hold the bedding material solid. even drill a few small holes to create the mechanical lock needed to secure the bedding material to the stock. ( think about how secure a glob of devcon would stick to a mirror) take extra time in your stock prep and then have at it. after some time, use wd-40 and q-tips to clean and dress the edges where the compound oozes out. dont be in a hurry to pop the action out. if you used the the release agent on all surfaces, you will be fine. even on the guide screws. good luck bro.
 
#10
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finally got up the courage to try to bed my Savage 10 into a Prarie Dog Special from Kevin Rahill. Rifle was shooting decent groups but looking for that extra edge and I like to tinker so figured I'd give it a go.

Tried with Marine-Tex gray (had local), plumbers putty, Johnson's Paste Wax and some Hornady One shot.

Roughed up the inside of the stock. Put in my putty (blind mag, action and small spots), taped the barrel to sit in middle of channel, taped stock and action, waxed/buffed action (inside and out), sprayed with One Shot too (just in case). Degreased the stock and mixed the compound. put the compound in, set the action down and couldn't get the action screws in.. Pulled it out and tried again and got the screws going in..but noticed the sticky bedding sticking to the action and stock. Figured since it's gooey it might.. so I set everything back in and tighted my action screws (not super tight but enough to get the action level). I noticed I got bedding compound on the screws so I kept turning them every half-hour or so to make sure they wouldn't set. MAN WAS I NERVOUS!!! Waited till it setup for about 4-5hrs and could barely make a dent in the compund with my finger nail. I wanted to try to release it so I could trim up and verify it was not stuck (figured I could redo if I messed it up). And sure enough.. when I pulled it out lots of bedding was on the action and pulled up from the stock. I got it all off the action and cleaned up the stock. At least there is plenty of grip for the next try in the stock now.

Did I not use enough release agent? Or did I just get too nervous and pop my load too early. If I would have let go you think I would have been ok? I caoted several times with the Johnson's and buffed clean.. then hit with One Shot just to make sure. Maybe took too much of the wax off in buffing and not enough One Shot?

Was thinking of trying again.. but with Devcon 10110 and getting some other release agent.. maybe the Brownells stuff to be safe.

Also.. would you recommend using the action screws again if I do the second time? Or should I just get some long bolts and attach to the action first before setting it in the stock.. then secure with electrical tape? I've seen the "stress free" instructions by RichardsCustom and also read other threads that recommend using the action screws and tightening them down.

Hopefully my mistakes can help others willing to give this a try.

Thanks,
Hawk </div></div>

First off, I think the Hornady one shot dissolve/washed away the paste wax you so carefully applied. The one shot is a lube in a solvent carrier and I am SURE that the solvent washed away most of your wax. Two coats of the Johnson should be more than sufficient. The second is insurance that you got everything covered. You just have to trust that you did it alright and not mess with it until it hardens. I think as long as you don't have any mechanical locks and have release agent over most of it, there are ways to get it separated if it sticks. I think the old standby is to put the rifle in the freezer and let it get cold. Whack it (technical lingo) with a rubber/leather mallet to get the action to separate from the bedding.

As far as the screws, I have shoved them down into the paste wax and gotten a good coating. You can then thread them back into the action for alignment. You don't want to apply any torque/stress to the action. It's better if you use headless screws. You only want them for alignment. Wrap the headless screws with tape so that they just fit the inletting or pillars and wax them to prevent epoxy from sticking to the tape.

There is better and more detailed information in the threads provided. Just a couple of tips. I am still a novice myself but have bedded a few rifles. The more you do, the easier/better it gets.

Apologies if this isn't clear. It's late for me, but thought I would offer a couple of suggestions that I've picked up.

Better luck on your next try. I have confidence it will come out much better.

BLK7
 
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#11
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

if you had putty stuck to the action and in the stock as it was pulled apart, it really sounds like it wasnt cured. if you could press with your nail like you said than that was hard and it just wasnt in the middle. like someone said before it sounds like it wasnt mixed enough. no fear, try again. you know how all the rest of the process works. also, when i bedded mine, i drilled small holes in my stocks interior and used a tooth pick to make sure the compound got down in there. roughing just didnt seem enough for the mehanical lock
 
#12
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

I went through Williams (wnroscoe) thread again last night and made all the notes. I think the first time I tried to do too many parts from the numerous threads I read and in the end made it MUCH more difficult than it needed to be. This time around I'm going to get some Silly Putty, Devcon, long bolts and use the Johnson's again and just trust it will set right.

I used plumbers putty the first go around and I think it is too soft and it is/was a pain to clean-up. Plus it sticks to your fingers and creates a residue on them. I'm also not going to fill the blind mag well with putty again.. I'll just tape it off and/or let the overflow drop/hang and I'll clean it up after. Also I'm going to use less tape on the action. Just some under the rear tang (b/c it's a Savage and needs to float) and around the lug/nut and forward. This time I'll let the release agent do it's work on the action and I'll give the epoxy full cure time and not jump the gun (no pun intended) so early. It will probably be a few weeks out before I have all the needed supplies but I'll post an update. Thanks again..
 
#13
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Some things I used when I did my second job. Easy for me because my Wife had access to a 30 cc Syringe to use as a measuring device. I cut the bottom off of it and pulled the plunger back and then filled the Syringe up with the right amounts of Putty and then did it for the right amount of Hardner. This way you will not mix to much and waste it. The Syringe also lets you get everthing out unlike trying to scrape it out of a cup.

While I was researching the Bedding process it was advised to use a piece of flat glass and Putty Knife to to mix your compounds on. This way you don't get air trapped in the compound. I used a flat piece of hard plastic.
It also allows you to see the streaks from the different compounds so that you get it all mixed together properly.(Not sure if necessary but it all sounded good) It was also advised not to scrimp on the mixing time. If it says 4 min. Mix for 4 min. You will wear your Arm out but you will have good results.

The Syringe was the most important part for me, Using the Measuring Cup on my first job I wasted enough compound to do another Rifle.
 
#14
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

What can go wrong?

The first time I tried glass bedding a rifle, I had a copy of Patrick Sweeney's gunsmithing rifles book. It looked easy.

The epoxy resin - catalyst mix leaked out of the stock and got on my shirt, my pants, my chair, and the rug. The barreled action was hopelessly glued to the stock. I had to saw and break the stock to get it off.

Later, I made pillars from 3/8" outside diameter brass tubing. The dissimilar metals of steel and brass caused corrosion of the sacrificial anode [the rifle].

Later, I made pillars of a stainless that work hardened as I cut it to length in the lathe. It screeched, got hot, and dulled my cutting tool.

Later, I glass bedded Mausers with the action high, the magazine did not fully engage, and although dummy rounds fed with round nose bullets, the gun was a single shot in the field with pointed bullets.

Later, I went out into my cold shop, mixed some epoxy and catalyst, and glass bedded a rifle. The mix cup I keep around to see when the epoxy is hard. The epoxy never hardened. It seems that epoxy and resin must not be cold at the time of mixing.

Later I ran into a glass bedding cult that thought any gun will measurably improve with good bedding.
 
#15
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went through Williams (wnroscoe) thread again last night and made all the notes. I think the first time I tried to do too many parts from the numerous threads I read and in the end made it MUCH more difficult than it needed to be. This time around I'm going to get some Silly Putty, Devcon, long bolts and use the Johnson's again and just trust it will set right.

I used plumbers putty the first go around and I think it is too soft and it is/was a pain to clean-up. Plus it sticks to your fingers and creates a residue on them. I'm also not going to fill the blind mag well with putty again.. I'll just tape it off and/or let the overflow drop/hang and I'll clean it up after. Also I'm going to use less tape on the action. Just some under the rear tang (b/c it's a Savage and needs to float) and around the lug/nut and forward. This time I'll let the release agent do it's work on the action and I'll give the epoxy full cure time and not jump the gun (no pun intended) so early. It will probably be a few weeks out before I have all the needed supplies but I'll post an update. Thanks again.. </div></div>

just one thing stands out. floating the tang. you say you are gonna put tape back there. with mine all i did was the tape around the barrel. dry fit it til it floats with just the tape on the barrel and the rear tang should float. i used playdoh. kleen clay from a hobby store is best. i used JB Weld. 1:1 mix ratio, available at every store just about. 4-5 hours and you can pop it out and its still razor trimable soft. also look at the bottom edge of the tang. mine had a big burr that was digging into the scope. i filed it down smooth and the bedding raised it up. you want to use the edge of the ejection port and line that up with the edge of the stock. you were on track last time so dont worry so much about waiting for the full cure as the stuff is easier to trim with a razor before its hard. then you will have to use a dremel. ive seen a guy on here mix on glass so mix for a while or try the JB maybe

5118397711_916a421d57_b.jpg
 
#16
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Clark, Classic!

It ALWAYS takes me at least two times to do thing right. Just the way it is for some of us. The life of a tinkerer. You can pay people to do things right the first time (and save you money in the long run), but what's the fun in that?? Though I do consider it everytime I look at my guns, cars, bikes, guitars/amps. Hell, I'm even thinking on tinkering on a new pair of glove I got... GLOVES FOR GOD's SAKE!!

Axe, thanks man.. I read your posts over in the bedding thread. Thanks for taking the time to do all that work and posting photos. The original thread over on Savage Shooters is not as good as what you and Richard put up here.
 
#17
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

A common problem is being afraid of the action sticking,and not trusting your release agent.I use kewi shoe polish,applied lightly,then buffed.It comes out super thin.Lots of things will work,but you probably removed some of your first layer with the second layer.Lots of other good advice here,good luck next time. Pete
 
#18
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Hey, don't feel too bad. On one of my early bedding attempts, I didn't have enough, or the right kind of release agent. When I had trouble getting the action out, I had to try harder. I sure as hell didn't expect a third of the stock to come away stuck to the action.. You got off lucky compared to me...

Now, my actions drip with release agent before anything comes close to epoxy.
 
#19
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Well I have some good news. I took another try at bedding my .308 and this time came out great. This time I didn't use the factory action screws but used the long 3" screws already attached to the action and went with the "stress-free" method. I used the last box of Marine-tex and Johnson's Paste Wax with a little Playdoh and just trusted it would work.. and it did. I took a good 10mins to mix the Marine-tex this time and put several coats of wax on (with buffing inbetween). Looks great. Now I'll just need to wait a week or so to really harden before taking her out. Thanks for all the tips. The first one is the hardest they say..
 
#20
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

Johnson's floor wax (liquid)! Best and easiest release agent made (a little birdy told me its exactly what is in the bottle of release agent that a well known gunsmithing mail order place sells - in fact, all you have to do is follow their instructions for applying the stuff).

Clean your action then apply Johnson's with a q-tip (if you hold things right you can see any places you might have missed) and let it dry - no need to buff it.

Works perfect every time.
 
#21
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quick Karl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Johnson's floor wax (liquid)! Best and easiest release agent made (a little birdy told me its exactly what is in the bottle of release agent that a well known gunsmithing mail order place sells - in fact, all you have to do is follow their instructions for applying the stuff).

Clean your action then apply Johnson's with a q-tip (if you hold things right you can see any places you might have missed) and let it dry - no need to buff it.
Works perfect every time. </div></div> I just got a can of SC Johnson one step no buff wax liquid at the hardware store. Two coats with a qtip and no buffing. Worked flawlessly. One small whack with the heel of my hand broke the action loose and I just buffed the wax off the action. Simple, and results look professional.
 
#23
Re: First try at bedding was a semi-disaster

I just did my first bedding job the other night. Did my old Model 60 Winny. I used JB Weld since it's only a .22 and i had a few tubes already. 3 coats of Johnsons wax buffed off and a very thin coat left on (better safe than sorry I say).

I let it sit over night and it popped right out. Cleaned it up with files and was rather pleased with how it turned out.
 
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