Anybody know much about these? And more specifically about old man Flaig? Shame his daughter sold off everything at auction..
Flaig's Mausers
- Thread starter Forgetful Coyote
- Start date
They were a post WWII company working on the premise that if they got a bunch of cheap (mostly) Mauser actions they could make a fortune. Problem was the tooling to convert them cost a bunch and so did the labor. I've seen and shot some really nice ones, and some not so nice ones. A lot of that was in the finishing out of the basic contract, or how much they had been worked in by shooting. Finishing them out took a lot of labor.
As far as I know, they made good money but not "get rich" money. While his heyday was post WWII, they actually started before WWII.
Here's a catalouge with some information on them, if you care to read it.
It was one of those things I wanted to do for a while. Then found out there wasn't a whole lot of money in it unless you were in certain circles where the money was passed around, i.e. The American Gunbuilders Guild. A lot of great pieces go unnoticed. A lot of great pieces from a guild member bring amazing prices.
As far as I know, they made good money but not "get rich" money. While his heyday was post WWII, they actually started before WWII.
Here's a catalouge with some information on them, if you care to read it.
It was one of those things I wanted to do for a while. Then found out there wasn't a whole lot of money in it unless you were in certain circles where the money was passed around, i.e. The American Gunbuilders Guild. A lot of great pieces go unnoticed. A lot of great pieces from a guild member bring amazing prices.
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Oh yeah the ACGG has some serious talent, I definitely will own a Jim Kobe build in .280 AI eventually. Ive heard the Flaig Ace(?) rifles were quite nice and came with Douglas barrels + more than decent stocks.. I also heard old man Flaig was quite possibly a true believer and had a bust of Hitler in his living room along with one of Goering's personal drillings. Interesting note - aside from being a lunatic much less a true believer, Goering was Germany's "Master of Hunting", kinda like a director of national Dept. of Natural Resources I suppose..?? Apparently every single Xmas since coming to power, Goering was gifted a custom rifle(or shotgun) from Germany's equivalent of our guild in Suhl and had 27 in total. Hes said to have been a big advocate of hunting and was well-liked for the hunting legislation/proposals he came up with.
Have you read anything corroborating such @sandwarrior ?
Have you read anything corroborating such @sandwarrior ?
What you say about Goering is true. He wanted to hunt like British Royalty did. But, he at least practiced some conservation. Hunting was extended to levels of lower classes than it had been in the past. One has to remember the changing faces of German politics in a very short period of time, and a lost WWI to boot, made hunting more of a "people thing" than it had been in the past.
Where did you find Jim Kobe? I used to have him do gunsmith work for me when I lived in Minnesota. His custom work was beautiful. I got into it with a fellow DCGC member about his work. I had him stick on a heavy barrel for me. and he left it in the white, as I had asked. I then put it in a thumbhole stock. This guy complained that Jim put some stuff together than looked like a tinker-toy. My response was, "You get your rifle, I will get mine and let's bet rifles based on 300 yd. groups. He didn't want to. Next time I heard that crap, I blew up on him. Called him out right in front of a bunch of club members and told him not to dis Jim Kobe. He does really good work on both the technical and artistic side.
Where did you find Jim Kobe? I used to have him do gunsmith work for me when I lived in Minnesota. His custom work was beautiful. I got into it with a fellow DCGC member about his work. I had him stick on a heavy barrel for me. and he left it in the white, as I had asked. I then put it in a thumbhole stock. This guy complained that Jim put some stuff together than looked like a tinker-toy. My response was, "You get your rifle, I will get mine and let's bet rifles based on 300 yd. groups. He didn't want to. Next time I heard that crap, I blew up on him. Called him out right in front of a bunch of club members and told him not to dis Jim Kobe. He does really good work on both the technical and artistic side.
Interesting. Like your comment alludes, I’ve read German gun ownership picked up quite a lot in this time. It’s Almost as ugly as Nazism, what Germany has turned into today.. good lord how the mighty have fallen.
Mr Kobe is real popular over on 24hourcampfire for M70 and Mauser builds. Some of them gentlemen over there have some real gorgeous pieces. Check it out when you get the chance.
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I can tell you Jim builds some very nice pieces ...when he wasn't being bothered by idiots like me. But, I can also tell you he took the time with a lot of us "locals" (I wasn't a local) who needed a good gunsmith. I provided barrels and actions and he did a tremendous job for me. He also did his own "two-position" Winchester type safety and he put bolt handles on that were fantastic.
I'd rate the guy a "10" as a gunsmith to deal with. And, if you want one of his customs, it's worth every penny.
@sandwarrior
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13878494/custom-mausers#Post13878494
Also meant to ask, you ever heard of Krupp Steel and Bohller Steel? Was there anything special about ti?
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13878494/custom-mausers#Post13878494
Also meant to ask, you ever heard of Krupp Steel and Bohller Steel? Was there anything special about ti?
I can't tell you about Bohler (didn't find Bohlier), but Krupp was like the European standard for across the board good quality steel.
I just met a gentleman at the Michigan Tech Career Fair, who works for a European steel company. While their steel is very highly rated worldwide, they do not make specialty steel such as high tensile (strong) AND high durability (hard) steel such as firearm steel.
So, for me, it's hard to pick out who does the best. Krupp I know was highly rated in the firearms industry.
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As @sandwarrior says, once upon a time Krupp was a premier name in the German arms industry. The majority of German artillery, including the massive Big Berthas, and a great deal of their naval strength in WWI along with a whole lot of artillery and tanks in WWII were designed and manufactured by Krupp. The company also had the distinction of designing and building the largest artillery pieces ever fielded by a wartime army. Can't speak to their steel production in general but their track record would suggest that when they made rifle barrels, they were quality.
Are they outta business? When did they shut down?
Also, just curious about something I saw mentioned about some of the best custom Mausers coming out of Hamburg, Germany... @sandwarrior any clue on who/what company that would be?
Also, just curious about something I saw mentioned about some of the best custom Mausers coming out of Hamburg, Germany... @sandwarrior any clue on who/what company that would be?
Technically Krupp went out of business circa 1999 and was conglomerated into Thyssen-Krupp. I do not know if Thyssen-Krupp still does firearms-grade steel.
As for Hamburg, that could be Hartmann & Weiss.
Interesting.. after lookin at em I think you're right, some damn fine pieces they do.
'Nother custom Mauser question.. from what I read, there was only a couple thousand actual G33/40's made originally..? Is that correct? Cause it seems like every other dude who owns a nice custom Mauser has a custom "G33/40".. certainly there were either a lot more made than what I saw or theres a lot of folks who were lied to or are lying.? Maybe most of em made it to the states and a thousand or two is plenty to go around tho, and Im just way overestimating the rarity that amount would lead to??
I actually don't know much about your G33/40 question but it seems they were produced between 1940 and 1942 in considerable quantity (~120,000 rifles or possibly more, not counting the pre-invasion vz.33 ones) and in the 1950s, seems that they were popular surplus actions for sporterizing. I'd say if the numbers are correct, there's probably quite a few people out there with genuine custom rifles built off the G33/40 action.
Oh, well I reckon the info I saw was incorrect or Im mixing it up with something else.
Quite possibly! But there were thousands and thousands of Mauser action surplussed, because there were thousands upon thousands made. A whole bunch are still original, a whole bunch are sporters, and a whole bunch are caked in cosmoline and waiting to be built.
The confusion might be how many made vs. how many were imported here. They were somewhat of a rarity to get imported here, and for whatever reason they were popular to build customs on. Maybe they were finished out better, as other than the short barrel, and butt boot, they aren't any different than the K98K. Their predecessor, the VZ-33, was equally hard to come by.
I've read that the short barrel was a PITA for muzzle flash/recoil/report compared to the longer Kar98k and vz. 24 barrels, so that made them less popular among troops; that might explain why they did get surplussed if nobody wanted them. Seems like only a few countries, including Norwegian police, used them after the war and that makes some sense since most countries moved to semi/full autos by default and swapped out for either the 7.62 NATO or Soviet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got stockpiled the way that Kar98ks were in some of the ComBloc countries (my Kar98k was one of those) or if they got crated up and sold to the Middle East, Southeast Asia, or wherever else arms dealers could make some cash. Bet there's a few of them rusting away in a plywood crate in some former VC rat tunnel or Taliban cave right now. That and they seem to have been made with lightening cuts was why they were popular with gunsmiths for sporting rifles.
If y’all had a unlimited budget, what Mauser action would you use for a no holds barred rifle(you gotta use a Mauser action tho)? I suppose it’s okay to throw in M70 and Dakota 76 actions also..
Would it be the Satterlee or possibly the Brevex actions that are considered the best? Did FN make ‘06 length and magnum length actions? How would a trued/tricked out FN commercial Mauser compare to something like a Brevex?
Thanks for the responses y’all.. lol like I said I definitely plan to have Jim Kobe do me a .280 ackley Mauser or maybe pre 64 M70 when I get the money.
Also, I know most high end builds use real wood.. but wouldn’t a laminate stock be more practical while still looking pretty good? Ie AFAIK laminate wood stocks ain’t gotta worry about moisture causing the stock to move and shift, correct? Or do laminates still have all the moisture issues of regular wood??
Would it be the Satterlee or possibly the Brevex actions that are considered the best? Did FN make ‘06 length and magnum length actions? How would a trued/tricked out FN commercial Mauser compare to something like a Brevex?
Thanks for the responses y’all.. lol like I said I definitely plan to have Jim Kobe do me a .280 ackley Mauser or maybe pre 64 M70 when I get the money.
Also, I know most high end builds use real wood.. but wouldn’t a laminate stock be more practical while still looking pretty good? Ie AFAIK laminate wood stocks ain’t gotta worry about moisture causing the stock to move and shift, correct? Or do laminates still have all the moisture issues of regular wood??
I had a Belgian Mauser-actioned (FNK action) 30-06 prone rifle that was built in 1960-61 by Flaig's. It had a 28" Timken 1:10" HEAVY barrel, Canjar trigger and a laminated Dunlap stock with Freeland hardware. That rifle would toss 190gr SMKs at near-300wm velocities. Induced some nasty left arm palsy when shooting slung in for long periods, though.
Very cool! Thanks for posting.. Timken barrel? Were those cut or button rifled? And were those barrels made in USA?
'nother question...
1. @rth1800 or @pmclaine or @sandwarrior .... any yall know if laminate stocks are "waterproof" unlike regular wood which will move 'round & warp?
2. Also.. Could you, say, take something like one of these below, and have 'em laminated to where its water-tight/sealed against moisture?
And for those wondering about it, check out https://russoriflestocks.com/ and take a look at some of his stuff!!! He can do whatever profile you want in whatever type of wood (including the exotic stuff which he can source/acquire for you) you want and AFAIK do it at quite a bit lower price than most custom wood stock makers + his work is EXCELLENT per the reviews I seen't.. Eg: you want a 'Nam M40 with a McBros A3 forend in curly Maple? Done. McBros A3-5 in Black Walnut? Done. Sako Classic in Tiger Stripe Maple? Done. Winchester Marksman in African Bubinga?? Done!! Custom profile stock with Walnut on the outside surrounding a Maple "spine" in the middle that is (obviously)visible from the bottom? Done. Done. Done.
Seriously yall.. check out some out of his work! IMO I'd wager his work could stand toe-to-toe w/ Cerus stocks in every way..
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Laminate stocks are not waterproof. They just tend to be more stable.
With a stock made from one piece of wood whatever weakness is in it becomes the Achilles heel.
With a stock made from laminate the weakness in one piece may be counteracted by strength in the overlapping piece.
The Nazis used laminate more as a way to makeup for lack of resources. They could use every scrap of wood in production because they had to.
The US is resources rich and we just cut down more trees to make more stocks.
I think it only became known later that you could build a laminate stock to defeat the effects of weather and improve accuracy.
As issued these were 4 MOA rifles. In inspection they usually did better. With rain they probably still were in spec.
With a stock made from one piece of wood whatever weakness is in it becomes the Achilles heel.
With a stock made from laminate the weakness in one piece may be counteracted by strength in the overlapping piece.
The Nazis used laminate more as a way to makeup for lack of resources. They could use every scrap of wood in production because they had to.
The US is resources rich and we just cut down more trees to make more stocks.
I think it only became known later that you could build a laminate stock to defeat the effects of weather and improve accuracy.
As issued these were 4 MOA rifles. In inspection they usually did better. With rain they probably still were in spec.
One of the misconceptions that has arisen since the general acceptance of synthetic and metal stocks is that wood stocks are not stable. I hunted and shot for many years with wooden stocks. Artic , tropics, mountains, jungles, 30 below to 120 above. Rain, snow, high and low humidity.
I did not have issues with shifting POI. Not once.
My stocks were well made from dense European walnut. Composite stocks are better but that does not mean wooden stocks are worthless.
The .416 Rigby and Winchester 52’s have not shifted POI over the last 30 years and thousands of rounds fired. The .416 also has a scope that returns exactly to POI.
I did not have issues with shifting POI. Not once.
My stocks were well made from dense European walnut. Composite stocks are better but that does not mean wooden stocks are worthless.
The .416 Rigby and Winchester 52’s have not shifted POI over the last 30 years and thousands of rounds fired. The .416 also has a scope that returns exactly to POI.
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There's been a lot of improvement in impregnating wood with stabilizers.
Added: LOL, I like the 416 on squirrels and "took the zebra at 100 with the .22"
Those are some damn fine stocks BTW! ?
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"Wood stocks are strong" he says and posts a picture of a rifle broke in half!
LOL, what a maroon.......
@NukeMMC any clue about the details of Timken barrels?
Mr Frank is somewhat of a historian on barrel making, maybe he'll know?
@Frank Green - ever heard of Timken? Cut rifled? Button rifled? What years were they in operation?
Mr Frank is somewhat of a historian on barrel making, maybe he'll know?
@Frank Green - ever heard of Timken? Cut rifled? Button rifled? What years were they in operation?
There is a reason mil stocks are "boring".
Straight grain = strength/stability.
Dense hard walnut is good stuff.
USMC claimed Model 70s and R700 had problems in wet of Vietnam.
They probably did if the weather was extreme and care was not taken to keep the rifle from getting water logged.
Now a days, bedding, pillars, properly opened barrel channel, not the best but perfectly serviceable with good maintenance.
Straight grain = strength/stability.
Dense hard walnut is good stuff.
USMC claimed Model 70s and R700 had problems in wet of Vietnam.
They probably did if the weather was extreme and care was not taken to keep the rifle from getting water logged.
Now a days, bedding, pillars, properly opened barrel channel, not the best but perfectly serviceable with good maintenance.
Timken was a large steel Mfg Based in Ohio IIRC.
I doubt they made barrels but they could have. Timken was renown for quality steel and Timken bearings.
I shot competition with the guy who ran the company years ago.
The barrel marking is similar to Krupp on a German barrel.
I doubt they made barrels but they could have. Timken was renown for quality steel and Timken bearings.
I shot competition with the guy who ran the company years ago.
The barrel marking is similar to Krupp on a German barrel.
Really..? I woulda thought knotted up wood would be better from my experience tryin to cut through that sh!t..?
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You can find occlusions and other weirdness in really figured wood.
That knot becomes an island of dense strength and when atmosphere or water start to cause changes what's around it will likely change differently in relation to the dense area.
Better to have the effects occur consistently throughout
Not saying nicely figured wood won't work. Stockmakers know what to look for I wouldn't.
Avoid sap wood and other shit that doesn't belong.
The requirements of some nice Bastogne Walnut stocked rifle owner are not those of the service rifle either.
The nice stock gets to stay home in favor of the McMillan if it's really shitty out. Infantryman doesn't get that luxury.
Date on the barrel is from 1961. It was built for a former MIT professor by the name of Del Keily who was a shooting buddy (and professor to my dad when he went thru MIT for his Master's). He sold it to my dad back in the late 60s.
Check out the heavy chrome content in that barrel.
Nice "plumbing".
Colt 1911 slides and R700 bolt handles from the 60s turn that color.
Love it!
