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Follow the $$$


"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Full Member
  • Jul 27, 2007
    A long but informative and thought provoking read:

    I feel that this is one of the most important investigations I’ve ever done. If my findings are correct, each of us might soon experience a severe, if not crippling blow to our personal finances, the confiscation of any wealth some of us have been able to accumulate over our lifetimes, and the end of the financial world as we once knew it. The evidence to support my findings exists in the trail of dead bodies of financial executives across the globe and a missing Wall Street Journal Reporter who was working at the Dow Jones news room at the time of his disappearance.

    If the bodies were dots on a piece of paper, connecting them results in a sinister picture being drawn that involves global criminal activity in the financial world the likes of which is almost without precedent. It should serve as a warning that we are at the precipice of something so big, it will shake the financial world as we know it to its core. It seems to illustrate the complicity of big banks and governments, the intelligence community, and the media.

    Although the trail of mysterious and bizarre deaths detailed below begin in late January, 2014, there are others. Not only that, there will be more, according to sources within the financial world. Based on my findings, these are not mere random, tragic cases of suicide, but of the methodical silencing of individuals who had the ability to expose financial fraud at the highest levels, and the complicity of certain governmental agencies and individuals who are engaged in the greatest theft of wealth the world has ever seen.

    It is often said that life imitates art. In the case of the dead financial executives, perhaps death imitates theater, or more specifically, the movie The International, which was coincidently released in U.S. theaters exactly five years ago today.

    We are told by the media that the untimely deaths of these young men and men in their prime are either suicides or tragic accidents. We are told what to believe by the captured and controlled media, regardless of how unusual or unlikely the circumstances, or how implausible the explanation. Such are the hallmarks of high level criminality and the involvement of a certain U.S. intelligence agency intent on keeping the lid on money laundering on a global scale.

    Obviously, it is important that this topic is approached with the utmost respect for the families of those who died, that they be allowed to grieve for the loss of their loved ones in private. However, it is extremely important that the truth about what is happening in the global financial arena is not kept from us, as we will also be victims of a different nature.

    The missing and the dead: a timeline

    The following is provided as a chronological list of those who have gone missing or been found dead under mysterious circumstances. It is important to note that this list consists of names of the most recent incidents. There are more that extend back through 2012 and beyond.

    January 11, 2014

    MISSING: David Bird, 55, long-time reporter for the Wall Street Journal working at the Dow Jones news room, went for a walk on Saturday, January 11, 2014, near his New Jersey home and disappeared without a trace. Mr. Bird was a reporter of the oil and commodity markets which happened to be under investigation by the U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations for price manipulation.

    January 26, 2014

    DECEASED: Tim Dickenson, a U.K.-based communications director at Swiss Re AG, was reportedly found dead under undisclosed circumstances.

    DECEASED: William Broeksmit, 58, former senior manager for Deutsche Bank, was found hanging in his home from an apparent suicide. It is important to note that Deutsche Bank is under investigation for reportedly hiding $12 billion in losses during the financial crisis and for potentially rigging the foreign exchange markets. The allegations are similar to the claims the institution settled in 2013 over involvement in rigging the Libor interest rates.

    January 27, 2014

    DECEASED: Karl Slym, 51, Managing director of Tata Motors was found dead on the fourth floor of the Shangri-La hotel in Bangkok. Police said he “could” have committed suicide. He was staying on the 22nd floor with his wife, and was attending a board meeting in the Thai capital.

    January 28, 2014

    DECEASED: Gabriel Magee, 39, a JP Morgan employee, died after reportedly “falling” from the roof of its European headquarters in London in the Canary Wharf area. Magee was vice president at JPMorgan Chase & Co’s (JPM) London headquarters.

    Gabriel Magee, a Vice President at JPMorgan in London, plunged to his death from the roof of the 33-story European headquarters of JPMorgan in Canary Wharf. Magee was involved in “Technical architecture oversight for planning, development, and operation of systems for fixed income securities and interest rate derivatives” based on his online Linkedin profile.

    It’s important to note that JPMorgan, like Deutsche Bank, is under investigation for its potential involvement in rigging foreign exchange rates. JPMorgan is also reportedly under investigation by the same U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations for its alleged involvement in rigging the physical commodities markets in the U.S. and London.

    Regarding the initial reports of his death, journalist Pam Martens of Wall Street on Parade astutely exposed the controlled, scripted details of the media accounts surrounding Magee’s death in an article written on February 9, 2014. Ms. Martens writes:

    “According to numerous sources close to the investigation of Gabriel Magee’s death, almost nothing thus far reported about his death has been accurate. This appears to stem from an initial poorly worded press release issued by the Metropolitan Police in London which may have been a result of bad communications between it and JPMorgan or something more deliberate on someone’s part.” [Emphasis added].

    Ms. Martens also notes:

    No solid evidence exists currently to suggest that the death was a suicide. In fact, there is a strong piece of evidence pointing in the opposite direction. Magee had emailed his girlfriend, Veronica, on the evening of January 27 to say that he was about to leave the office and would see her shortly. [Emphasis added].

    Based on information she developed, it appears likely that Magee did not meet his fate on the morning his body was discovered, but hours earlier. Considering the possibility that Magee might now have died in the manner publicized, Ms. Martens offers speculation and notes it as such:

    If Magee became aware that incriminating emails, instant messages, or video teleconferences were not turned over in their entirety to Senate investigators or Justice Department prosecutors, that might be reason enough for his untimely death.

    Looking at the death of Magee in the context of a larger conspiracy, it is difficult not to suspect foul play and media manipulation.

    January 29, 2014

    DECEASED: Mike Dueker, 50, who had worked for Russell Investment for five years, was found dead close to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State. Dueker was reported missing on January 29, 2014. Police stated that he “could have” jumped over a fence and fallen 15 meters to his death, and are treating the case as a suicide.

    Before joining Russell Investments, Dueker was an assistant vice president and research economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis from 1991 to 2008. There he served as an associate editor of the Journal of Business and Economic Statistics and was editor of Monetary Trends, a monthly publication of the St. Louis Federal Reserve.

    In November 2013, the New York Times reported that Russell Investments was one of several investment companies that were under subpoena from New York State regulators investigating potential “pay-to-play” schemes involving New York pension funds.

    February 3, 2014

    DECEASED: Ryan Henry Crane, 37, was the Executive Director in JPMorgan’s Global Equities Group. Of particular relevance is that Crane oversaw all of the trade platforms and had close working ties with the now deceased Gabriel Magee of JPMorgan’s London desk. The ties between Mr. Crane and Mr. Magee are undeniable and outright troublesome. The cause of death has not yet been determined, pending the results of a toxicology report.

    February 6, 2014

    DECEASED: Richard Talley, 57, was the founder and CEO of American Title, a company he founded in 2001. Talley and his company were under investigation by state insurance regulators at the time of his death. He was found in the garage of his Colorado home by a family member who called authorities. Talley reportedly died from seven or eight “self-inflicted” wounds from a nail gun fired into his torso and head.

    The enormity of the lie

    One must look back far enough to understand the enormity of the lie and the criminality of bankers and governments alike. We must understand the legal restraints that were severed during the Clinton years and the congress that changed the rules regarding financial institutions. We must understand that the criminal acts were bold and bipartisan, and were designed to consolidate wealth through the destruction of the middle class. All of this is part of a much larger plan to establish a one world economy by “killing” the U.S. dollar and consequently, eradicating the middle class by a cabal of globalists that existed and continue to exist within all sectors of our government. The results will be crippling to not just the United States, but the entire Western world.

    What began decades ago is now becoming more transparent under the Obama regime. Perhaps that’s the transparency Obama promised, for we’ve seen little else in terms of transparency with regard to the man known as Barack Hussein Obama. For those not locked into the captured corporate media, we’re starting to see the truth emerging. The truth is that we’ve been living under a giant Ponzi scheme and we, the American citizens, are the suckers. As illustrated by the list of dead bankers above, however, the power elite need a bit more time before the extent of their criminality is revealed. They need a bit more time to transfer the remaining wealth from middle-class America to their private coffers. Timing is everything, and a magic act only works when all props are in place before the illusion is performed. Only when their timing is right will the slumbering Americans realize the extent of the illusion by which they’ve been entranced, at which time they will be forced into submission to accept a financial reset that will ultimately subjugate them to a global economy. I contend that this is the reason for the recent spate of deaths, for those who met their tragic and untimely end had the ability to expose this nefarious agenda by what they knew or discovered, or what they would reveal under subpoena and the damage they could cause to the globalist financial agenda.

    It is an insult to the public intellect that the media so readily pushes the official line that the deaths were all suicides given the unusual circumstances surrounding nearly all of those listed. This itself should be ringing alarm bells with anyone of reasonable sensibilities, or at least those who are paying the slightest bit of attention to the larger picture. The media is either complicit or completely inept. While incompetence is evident in many areas, even the most inept journalist or media company cannot possible deny what exists directly in front of them. They can only withhold the truth.

    Connecting the dots

    To understand what is taking place, I contacted a financial source who has accurately predicted many events that we are now seeing taking place, including the deaths of certain financial people, for an explanation. In fact, he actually predicted that we would see a “clean-up” of individuals who posed a serious threat to certain too-big-to-fail-or-jail banks and “banksters” a full week before the events began to unfold. Truth be told, I initially greeted his prediction with some skepticism, for such things don’t really happen in the real world, or so the obedient and well-managed media tells me.

    “V, The Guerrilla Economist” as he is known in the alternative media, has provided numerous insider alerts for Steve Quayle‘s website and has appeared as a regular guest on The Hagmann & Hagmann Report. He has an undeniable track record for accuracy, which has earned my respect. However, I thought that he had taken temporary leave of his senses when he twice suggested that there will be some house cleaning done of anyone posing a threat to the agenda of certain banks and the globalist agenda on our broadcasts of November 20, 2013, and again on January 10, 2014. In a separate venue, he described what was about to take place by using the analogy of the movie The International. Several dead bodies and a missing journalist later, that analogy has been proven accurate.

    The fact is that we are seeing a clean-up where JPMorgan and Deutsche Bank seems to appear at the epicenter of it all. In January, JPMorgan admitted facilitating the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme by turning its head to his activities. Despite this admission, the U.S. Department of Justice under Eric Holder declined to send anyone to jail under a deferred prosecution agreement. Yet this is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

    In March, 2013 the U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released a heavily redacted 307-page report detailing the financial irregularities surrounding the actions of JPMorgan and the deliberate withholding of critical financial information by JPMorgan. Prominent in the mix are the actions of Bruno Iksil, who earned the nickname the “London Whale,” for his “casino bets” of other’s money that caused billions of dollars in losses. Yet, no cooperation was provided by Dimon’s foot soldiers as they failed to testify or otherwise cooperate with Senate investigators.

    Remember the damage control and the deliberate downplaying by Jamie Dimon, who maintained that there was nothing to see here with regard to the “London Whale” criminal activities? What was originally described as a loss of perhaps $2 billion ultimately turned into many more times that, yet the actual numbers are still hidden from the public. Such events occurred under the noses of numerous financial executives who had knowledge that went undisclosed.

    As we fast forward to today and the current spate of mysterious deaths, we begin to see that many of those who died existed on the periphery of events in the criminal actions of the financial industry. Moreover, it is reasonable to conclude that they possessed knowledge that if disclosed, could have interrupted the magic act taking place for the awestruck audience, captivated by the carefully crafted words of Yellen, her predecessors and the operatives within government who’s duty it is to regulate whatever is left of our current financial system.

    That regulation is now a thing of the past. What we have today is a system of facilitation and co-operation between the largest corporations and financial institutions and the U.S. and our intelligence agencies. We now have the “too-big-to-fails” operating with impunity as a result of an incestuous, if not outright unconstitutional relationship where the banks are acting as operational assets for the CIA, the NYPD, and other intelligence and police agencies.

    The JPMorgan-CIA-NYPD connection

    Perhaps one of the best kept secrets, at least from the majority of the American public, is the integration and overlap between the “too-big-to-fail-and-jail” banks and the most advanced system of surveillance in the U.S. Would it surprise you to learn that the very banks that brought the United States to the brink of financial collapse in 2008, who looted the American public and continue to engage in what most perceive as criminal behavior in the financial venue not only have ties to the CIA, but are actually partnered with the CIA and NYPD surveillance of all of lower Manhattan? That’s right, the big banks such as JPMorgan, Citigroup and others have their own desks and surveillance monitors at a facility known as the Lower Manhattan Security Coordination Center, located at 55 Broadway, deep in the center of New York’s financial district.

    The big banks—the very banks that have been the focus of fraud and corruption investigations have their own system of cameras, more than 2,000 in number, and operate them in tandem with NYPD surveillance cameras at a center that was funded with taxpayer money. Every square inch of lower Manhattan is under surveillance 24/7, not just by NYPD, but by JP Morgan and other members of the so-called “one percent.” Carefully consider the implications of this pact.

    JPMorgan Chase and others have had long and quite intimate ties with the CIA. Today, however, the line between the banks that control our financial present and future and police and intelligence agencies no longer exist. This relationship of mutual benefit permits the CIA to use the financial institutions to “handle the money” for their various global initiatives, while it provides the banks a stable of “professional assistants” to handle their “security,” whether such security issues arise in the U.S., London, or elsewhere. Highly trained and skilled CIA operatives now work within the system of interlocked financial institutions that have been at the epicenter of the most egregious crimes involving the theft from our bank accounts and retirement savings.

    Please stop and consider this for a moment. The very banks and their top executives who have not only brought the U.S. to the brink of financial collapse and Martial Law, engaged or facilitated in various criminal actions that resulted in fines (but no jail time) for the perpetrators, are working hand-in-hand with the CIA. Not only that, they are working in tandem with the NYPD at their surveillance centers, watching and videotaping every move made by anyone—including potential whistleblowers within their vast purview. By the way, this is no ordinary surveillance or surveillance cameras. You won’t find these cameras on the shelves of your local spy shop. These cameras can focus on the footnotes of a book you might be reading, or the words written on a piece of paper being held by an unwitting person. They employ facial recognition and other advanced visual and data aggregation capabilities, and the extent of their technological abilities is increasing every day.

    Additionally, the data is collected and maintained, and files are created of people and groups who are merely going about their daily lives. Equally important, files are created and maintained of problem children and groups, like the Occupy movement and others who lawfully exercise their constitutional rights to protest the actions of the one-percent. Consider this in the context of the Occupy Wall Street protests. where the protesters were not only under police surveillance, but surveillance by the banks and their corporate officers against whom they were protesting. And it was all done with the approval and assistance of the police, in this case the NYPD, and U.S. intelligence agencies.

    Now consider the plight of a whistleblower who wants to expose criminality within the ranks of a too-big-to-fail. The institution who is engaged in purported criminality based on the findings of the whistleblower can observe the whistleblower’s every move. Where they go, who they meet and what they are carrying to such a meeting. They can be tracked to a residence, a business, or even to their psychiatrist’s office, place of ill repute, or the residence of some significant other outside of their marriage, all of which would be invaluable for blackmail.

    Perhaps the potential whistleblower is clean and free from anything that might dissuade them from revealing what they know, their case could be turned over to the in-house security of former CIA agents for proper disposition. It makes the movie The Firm look like child’s play by comparison.

    This is not some fanciful delusion. There is proof of this that exists. The New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) has documented the increasingly extensive surveillance being conducted in lower Manhattan and throughout the city. They have verified that not only are our constitutional rights being violated every minute of every day, but the fruits of surveillance by police and corporate entities are shared between the police, the intelligence agencies and private financial institutions, without restraint on the distribution on such findings.

    Are you engaged in a protesting against the criminality of the one-percent? Well, the one-percent are watching you, and they are literally seated right next to the police. Are you a journalist following up on possible “bankster” corruption by meeting a potential whistleblower? You better understand that the bankster target of your investigation is watching you, in real-time, with the complete approval and cooperation of the police. As documented by the NYCLU, you are likely now “on file,” and all data compiled is maintained and accessible not just to law enforcement, but to the very target of your investigation—in real time.

    Such surveillance and integration between big banks, law enforcement and spy agencies is not just limited to lower Manhattan or even the United States. It is also most prevalent in London and other cities where international banking is conducted.

    Real-time surveillance and the close working relationship between the “one-percenters,” police and the intelligence agencies gives the targets of criminal probes the ability to be pro-active when necessary. It’s all being done under the pretext of national security when it would appear that the real objective is to insulate the banksters from potential problems that exposure of their criminal actions might cause.

    Oh, and don’t forget that it is us who are paying for this.

    Perhaps we would be well advised to not only consider the capabilities of the surveillance apparatus that exists where the big banks and police are working at adjacent surveillance terminals at 55 Broadway and other locations, but the incestuous working relationship between the banks and the CIA when we read about banker suicides.

    Do not expect to see any exclusive report on this in the corporate media, for they, as requested, have dutifully maintained their code of silence by not showing pictures of the brass name plates that identify the bankster terminals situated adjacent to the police terminals during photo shoots of this super-secret surveillance complex a few years ago. As detailed by the tenacious and indefatigable Pam Martens, journalist for Wall Street on Parade in this article, the captured media took a pass on revealing the whole truth about what’s really going on at 55 Broadway.

    What has been revealed here is merely the tip of the iceberg. The tentacles of the corporate elite, facilitated and empowered by the CIA, the NYPD top brass, and other agencies have now covertly and effectively succeeded in invading everything you do. The fruits of this operation are being used to advance their global financial agenda and silence the opposition.

    Knowing this, is it possible that the dead bodies that are increasing in number are the results of this joint surveillance operation? You will not find any answers in the mainstream media. The big banks have chosen to remain silent, even in the face of subpoenas, and have yet to face any legal consequences for their contempt. It’s not, however, merely contempt of congress or pseudo-investigative bodies. It’s their contempt of humanity, of you and me, and the victims that lie dead, leaving their families broken and wanting for the truth.
    Sometimes the swimming pool becomes so polluted that the only remaining viable option is to completely drain the pool, disinfect the floor and walls, and start with an entirely new batch of water.

    Putting this another way; if collapse is inevitable, isn't it time to quit waiting passively for the inevitable, and begin the dismantling in a more controlled manner?

    How many of us are just plain past the point where watching and wishing no longer fills the bill?

    ...And by the way, just who the Hell is that John Galt guy folks talk about anyway?

    Last edited:
    Sometimes the swimming pool becomes so polluted that the only remaining viable option is to completely drain the pool, disinfect the floor and walls, and start with an entirely new batch of water.

    Putting this another way; if collapse is inevitable, isn't it time to quit waiting passively for the inevitable, and begin the dismantling in a more controlled manner?

    How many of us are just plain past the point where watching and wishing no longer fills the bill?

    ...And by the way, just who the Hell is that John Galt guy folks talk about anyway?


    You are correct,Greg, but the ones who have engineered this situation have hidden and protected themselves very well. They have so much money, and the power it buys, it is like trying to attack a well defended castle with pitchforks. Though some of us have become aware of who they are its not so easy to reach them. That said I think the problem actually lies at another, deeper, level. Some one once said, and I quote though I don't remember who said this,

    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    Its kind of like the Mexican Cartels. You cut off a head and a dozen more spring up. It wont stop until the heart is penetrated with the sword of truth. Its not the 'men' themselves, but the corruption of the soul that leads to the overwhelming desire for power and control, and the willingness to do anything, no matter how morally corrupt to gain that power.

    Until each and every one of us comes to respect his fellow man as he wants to be respected this will continue.
    Did not take the time to read your entire first post, but will when I have more time.
    The financial systems are definitely in trouble.
    Trillions of unbacked over the counter darivitives, 200+trillion of unfounded liabilities such as social security, Medicaid, state and federal pensions, ect.
    Manipulated markets such as libor interest rates, precious metals and commodities markets, the Fed pumping billions into the stock market, the Fed monetizing the debt by buying the bond market and keeping interest rates falsely low.
    Not sure how long the can will be kicked down the road.
    The Revolution Continues - YouTube

    Aside from schooling on history and how Constitution was formed and modern US became to be she also nails the future prediction. I tend to agree some kind of Buddhist reincarnation (but without luxury of actually living many cycles you are just given one try, one slot in Time and that's it) but on species level, we need to suffer generation after generation until % of population which is honest and fair wins and outweighs the bad. Until then the endless cycle of "revolutions". If more people knew our history perhaps not so many cycles would be needed.
    The Revolution Continues - YouTube

    Aside from schooling on history and how Constitution was formed and modern US became to be she also nails the future prediction. I tend to agree some kind of Buddhist reincarnation (but without luxury of actually living many cycles you are just given one try, one slot in Time and that's it) but on species level, we need to suffer generation after generation until % of population which is honest and fair wins and outweighs the bad. Until then the endless cycle of "revolutions". If more people knew our history perhaps not so many cycles would be needed.

    Wow, that was truly powerful. And in the end she boils it down to the same that I and others have. "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." No external form of government will ever work until we, as individual's, change how we think and act.


    Has everything to do with it. Those who control the money don't want anyone else fucking with their control, so people commit suicide. Ahem.

    Check this one:

    The Liberty Dollar (ALD) was a private currency produced in the United States.

    The currency was issued in minted metal rounds (i.e. coins), gold and silver certificates and electronic currency (eLD). ALD certificates are "warehouse receipts" for real gold and silver owned by the bearer. According to court documents there were about 250,000 holders of Liberty Dollar certificates.[1] The metal was warehoused at Sunshine Minting in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, prior to a November 2007 raid by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Secret Service.[2] Until July 2009, the Liberty Dollar was distributed by Liberty Services (formerly known as "National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Code" (NORFED), based in Evansville, Indiana. It was created by Bernard von NotHaus, the co-founder of the Royal Hawaiian Mint Company.[3]

    In May 2009, von NotHaus and others were charged with federal crimes in connection with the Liberty Dollar and, on July 31, 2009, von NotHaus announced that he had closed the Liberty Dollar operation, pending resolution of the criminal charges.[4] On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was pronounced guilty of "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".[5][6]

    From 1998 to July 2009, Liberty Services exchanged Federal Reserve Notes (US dollars) for silver Liberty Dollars (and later gold and copper).

    Liberty Services' original name was "National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Code" (NORFED). Since its founding, the organization asserted that the Federal Reserve was unconstitutional and harmful. The company is now in a series of legal battles both defending their exchange service and challenging exclusivity assertions made by the US Mint (see Legal issues).

    A number of alternative currencies exist in the United States, including Phoenix Dollars, Baltimore's BNote, Ithaca Hours, Bitcoin and digital gold currency. Unlike some other alternative currencies, both Liberty Dollars and Phoenix Dollars were denominated by weight and backed by a commodity. Liberty Dollars used gold, silver, platinum, or copper. Other private currencies use different bases, such as tying their value to a specific unit of time; i.e., 1 hour = 1 Time Dollar.[7] Under the most simplistic version of that model, the future value of the currency would depend on the willingness of people to swap their labor, regardless of the market value of the labor provided. However, systems such as Ithaca Hours have introduced more sophisticated models that allow for variations in market value of labor. Liberty Dollars also differed from other alternative currencies in that they carried a suggested US dollar face value.

    Private currencies may present problems for users because there is no specific criminal law for counterfeiting them, whether they are printed or minted, aside from ordinary statutes against fraud. Coining is more technologically difficult than is printing, and inclusion of precious metal in coins has long been seen as a means of "embedding" value in them. The Liberty Dollar consisted of both coins and printed notes. While Liberty Dollars were backed by a physical commodity—a weight in metal, there was still no legal penalty attached to counterfeiting either Liberty Dollar coins or notes beyond those normally attached to fraud.

    Liberty Dollar base values, discounts, and commissions[edit]

    The Liberty Dollar "base value" was created by Bernard von NotHaus. As of 2009, the base value of the Liberty Dollar was $20 Liberty Dollars to one ounce of silver.[8] At the time the Liberty Dollar operation was closed, one ounce Liberty Dollar gold pieces were denominated $1,000 with a maximum charge of 10% over spot price with membership. The previous base values were $10 silver ounce, $20 silver ounce and $500 gold ounce. Non-members paid full face value for all currency except for certain Special and Numismatic items. Members' discounts ranged from 0% to 50%+ (actually, for short periods during crossovers it was possible that even members could not buy Liberty Dollars at cost or less).

    Liberty Dollar associates and merchants used to exchange for Liberty Dollars at a discount, so they could "make money when [they] spend money."[citation needed] To further distinguish how the Liberty Dollar worked, von NotHaus transitioned to a commission structure in June 2007 where associates and merchants received a commission in the form of extra Liberty Dollars when they placed their orders. Regional currency officers received larger discounts; they were the regional distributors and official representatives of Liberty Services.

    The Liberty Dollar associate and merchant discounts ranged from 0.0%-50%+ (zero to more than fifty percent) depending on where the price of silver was, relative to the Liberty Dollar base value, the Liberty Dollar base value crossover points, and the time periods during which the price stayed above varying moving-day averages over 30, 60 or 90 days in a fluctuating market, based on Liberty Dollar formulas worked out by von NotHaus.[9]

    Regional currency office[edit]

    A "regional currency office" was a kind of distributor of Liberty Dollars. In exchange for a fee paid to Liberty Dollar they could purchase Liberty dollars for resale at a discount. They were also authorized to purchase, convert, or perhaps exchange Liberty Dollars for Federal Reserve Notes.[10][dead link]

    Legal issues[edit]

    Federal Government response[edit]

    Numerous individuals within the U.S. Government have been interviewed regarding the Liberty Dollar. The Liberty Dollar organization asserts that one U.S. Secret Service agent has stated "It's not counterfeit money"[11] while remaining "skeptical" of NORFED. Another agent is reported to have warned that the Liberty Dollar "appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 514."[11] The minting of Liberty dollars also appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486:

    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

    The promoter of the Liberty Dollar asserts that Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for the U.S. Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, had previously said American Liberty Currency is legitimate. Dickens was quoted as having said "There's nothing illegal about this", after the Treasury Department's legal team reviewed the currency. "As long as it doesn't say 'legal tender' there's nothing wrong with it."[12]

    In 2006 the U.S. Mint issued a press release stating that prosecutors at the Justice Department had determined that using Liberty Dollars as circulating money is a federal crime. The press release also stated that the "Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[13] The Justice Department also stated that the Liberty Dollar was confusingly similar to actual U.S. currency, and the language used on NORFED's website was deceptive.[14]

    The Liberty Dollar organization responded to the Mint's press release by stating that "[t]he Liberty Dollar never has claimed to be, does not claim to be, is not, and does not purport to be, legal tender."[15] The promoters of the Liberty Dollar have asserted that the Liberty Dollar is not legal tender, and that legal tender and barter are mutually exclusive concepts. The promoter asserts that the Liberty Dollar is a numismatic piece or medallion which may be used voluntarily as barter.

    Bernard von NotHaus v. the U.S. Mint[edit]

    On March 20, 2007, Liberty Services owner Bernard von NotHaus filed suit in the District Court for the Southern District of Indiana against the U.S. Mint's claims regarding the Liberty Dollar. Defendants include Henry M. Paulson, Secretary of the Treasury; Alberto R. Gonzales, former Attorney General of the United States; and Edmund C. Moy, Director of the Mint.[16] The suit seeks a declaratory judgment that circulating Liberty Dollars as a voluntary barter currency is not a federal crime and an injunction barring the Defendants from publicly or privately declaring the Liberty Dollar an illegal currency and to remove any such declarations from the U.S. Mint's website.[17]

    FBI / Secret Service raid[edit]

    The Liberty Dollar offices were raided by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the United States Secret Service on November 14, 2007. Bernard von NotHaus, the owner of Liberty Services, sent an email to customers and supporters saying that the FBI took all the gold, silver, and platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars. The FBI also seized computers and files and froze the Liberty Dollar bank accounts.[18] von NotHaus's email linked to a signup page for a class action lawsuit so that the victims might recover their assets. At the same time, all forms on his website relating to purchases of Liberty Dollars became nonfunctional.

    Copies of the email and the warrant documents have been posted to the website.[19] The seizure warrant was issued for money laundering, mail fraud, wire fraud, counterfeiting, and conspiracy.[20][21]

    The local Evansville Courier & Press reported the email, stating that "FBI Agent Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Indianapolis office, directed all questions on the raid to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney's Office. A spokeswoman there said she had no information on the investigation. Bernard von NotHaus, the group's monetary architect and the author of the email, did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment."[22]

    The Associated Press quoted von NotHaus on November 16, 2007, as saying that the federal government was "running scared right now and they had to do something .... I'm volunteering to meet the agents and get arrested so we can thrash this out in court."[23]


    A federal grand jury brought an indictment against von NotHaus and three others in May 2009 in United States District Court in Statesville, North Carolina,[24] and von NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. Bernard von NotHaus is charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in denominations of five dollars and greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2.[24]

    On July 28, 2009, von NotHaus entered a plea of not guilty.[25]


    On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was convicted of "making, possessing and selling his own coins", after a jury in Statesville, North Carolina deliberated for less than two hours.[26] The jury found him guilty of one count under 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2, one count of violating 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2, and one count of conspiracy, under 18 U.S.C. § 371, to violate sections 485 and 486.[27] He faces up to 15 years in prison, a $250,000 fine, and may be forced to give $7 million worth of minted coins and precious metals to the government, weighing 16,000 pounds.[26] Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, described the Liberty Dollar as "a unique form of domestic terrorism" that is trying "to undermine the legitimate currency of this country".[28] The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country."[28]

    According to the Associated Press, "Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins".[29] Actually, the word "dollar" and the dollar sign are not uniquely American. The word "dollar" has ancient origins, and the dollar sign was created for the Mexican peso.[30][31][32][33][34][35][36] They are both used for many other national and privately minted currencies today, and historically privately issued "dollars" were used within the territories of the U.S. itself.[37][38] The conviction was appealed.


    Although he was convicted in March 2011, the U.S. government has still not reached a sentencing decision for von NotHaus. Since his trial, The New York Times has said that some people describe von Nothaus as "the Rosa Parks of the constitutional currency movement." As of December 2013, he remains free pending sentencing.[39]

    He has appealed his conviction. Reemphasizing his contempt for the U.S. dollar, the appeal states:[40]
    ...if anything is clear from the evidence presented at trial, it is that the last thing Mr. von NotHaus wanted was for Liberty Dollars [to] be confused with coins issued by the United States government...His intention – to protest the Federal Reserve system – has always been plain. The jury's verdict conflates a program created to function as an alternative to the Federal Reserve system with one designed to [deceive] people into believing it was the very thing Mr. von NotHaus was protesting in the first place...the Liberty Dollars was not a counterfeit and was not intended to function as such. The verdict is a perversion of the counterfeiting statutes and should be set aside.
    When asked about the government's motive for accusing him of terrorism, von NotHaus scoffed, "This is the United States government. It's got all the guns, all the surveillance, all the tanks, it has nuclear weapons, and it's worried about some ex-surfer guy making his own money? Give me a break!"[41]

    Forfeiture trial[edit]

    The forfeiture trial was scheduled to resume Monday April 4, 2011.[42] Federal prosecutors were seeking to take roughly $7 million worth or five tons in Liberty Dollars minted in gold and silver seized in 2007 from a warehouse by the FBI.[
    gov't theft of anything of value from anyone else who threatens their monopoly of "worth".

    Simple as that. And not only that, but it seems to me, to "erase" any form or premise of "barter" in the U.S. The ubiquitous "they" want to have their hand in, and control of, each and every exchange that is out there. Say something if I am wrong.
    I was waiting on the bitcoin shoe to drop. It was getting popular, so it's credibility needed to be damaged before the idea of an alternative currency got any more mainstream. People who threaten the Fed will either be discredited or eliminated. Nothing threatens the Fed more than a viable, liquid alternative to the dollar.
    I was waiting on the bitcoin shoe to drop. It was getting popular, so it's credibility needed to be damaged before the idea of an alternative currency got any more mainstream. People who threaten the Fed will either be discredited or eliminated. Nothing threatens the Fed more than a viable, liquid alternative to the dollar.

    You hit the nail squarely on its ugly little head.
    I was waiting on the bitcoin shoe to drop. It was getting popular, so it's credibility needed to be damaged before the idea of an alternative currency got any more mainstream. People who threaten the Fed will either be discredited or eliminated. Nothing threatens the Fed more than a viable, liquid alternative to the dollar.

    If you been following the Mt. Gox fiasco, you see that Bitcoin has it problems as well.

    If you haven't been following, Mt. Gox was a bitcoin exchange/bank in Japan. These banks are necessary to liquid these bitcoin cryptocodes into the `paper money' of your choosing. Well, they locked their exchange awhile ago and said people couldn't withdraw because they were having technical problems. Most people knew they had been hacked, and they finally came out and declared bankruptcy not too long ago. Somebody hacked them and stole something like 800 million dollars of bitcoins. This has probably been on the news, but I stopped watching it awhile ago, so apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

    The question is who is capable of hacking a firm like this?

    Another question to ask, is who created Bitcoin in the first place?

    Also, the financial service industry is getting a bit of blowback and JP Morgan is cutting like 17000 jobs over the next 2 years. Say 20 people who happen to work in finance and banking kill themselves, 20 out of 17,000 is .1%. If we accounted for the total size of the financial services industry versus a non-trivial but hugely smaller of projected job cuts, those suicides are relatively insignificant, especially conditioning on the fact that life as a worker bee in financial services is about to get a more difficult.

    I have more stuff to discuss, but I think it will just get me in trouble if I keep going.
    Time to get rid of the Fed and go back to the Gold standard.

    Politicians who hold that view end up dead. Im surprised Ron Paul has lasted as long as he has. They must know that he doesn't have a chance. The Fed is now too entrenched. They have what they want...control of the wealth.

    On a practical note, if they were to attempt that, can you imagine the size of the pile of gold necessary to cover 15 trillion $$$?
    Allowing gold to be $1000/oz then one pound=$16000 so

    1 ton = ..............................$32,000,000
    10tons =.............................$320,000,000
    100 tons =..........................$3,200,000,00
    1000 tons=.........................$$32,000,000,000
    10,000 tons -......................$320,000,000,000

    So at that rate to cover 15trillion you would need to be holding some 500,000 tons (x2000 to get pounds) of gold. Consider that in the light of the following article which says all the gold ever produced only equals approximately 150,000 tons. Just not practical by todays standards especially considering that there is less and less to mine every year. That's one reason the price is going up.. They would need to move to a new standard...plutonium? We have most of the worlds stock of that.


    With all the talk that is always raging about gold and the value or lack thereof in buying gold, I thought it would be interesting to look up some basic facts about gold.

    We all know that gold is mined and doesn't grow on trees. Each year, new gold is mined and is added to the stock of gold. Of course, gold is held by a variety of people and institutions. Many people hold it in the form of coins and jewelry, but central banks and the International Monetary Fund also hold large amounts of gold, even though there are no countries on the gold standard at the present time.

    According to estimates on the website of the World Gold Council, the total amount of gold ever produced is between 140,000 and 160,000 tonnes. They estimate that almost 2/3 of that total has been mined since 1950.

    Each metric tonne weighs 1000 kilogram. That is equivalent to 32,150 ounces.

    To put into a visual perspective, if all the gold ever produced in the world was in one place, it would fill a cube of approximately 62 feet on each side.

    The United States has the largest amount of gold reserves in the world with an estimated 8,139 tonnes of gold in its possession. Germany and the IMF then follow in terms of estimated gold reserves.

    China recently declared its intention of building up its gold reserves in the next 10 years hoping to build its reserves to over 10,000 tonnes in the next 10 years.

    The Indian central bank, The Reserve Bank Of India, also recently bought 200 tonnes of gold from the IMF.

    However, the amount of gold held worldwide by individuals exceeds the amount held by governments and institutions like the IMF. Of the 140,000 to 160,000 tonnes of gold ever produced, it is estimated that about 100,000 of these tonnes are held by individuals.

    So, if we know how much gold has been produced in the world, how much of this precious metal still lies below the earth's surface waiting to be mined?

    According to estimates from the Metals Economics Group, the major gold producers reported reserves of about 22,000 tonnes at the end of 2005. This would represent approximately 14 years of production at 2005 rates.

    Ricardo Smith is a financial journalist with an interest in international economics and macro investment trends. He is particularly interested in the latest opinions of the world's most successful investors. Occasionally, he tries his hand at financial humor.

    His latest website is [http://www.goldbullionbarsite.com/] which has information on gold bullion bars and the Maple Leaf Gold [http://www.goldbullionbarsite.com/Maple-Leaf-Gold-Coin.html/] Coin.
    The first progressive corrupter.

    Want to know the name of that power Wilson was speaking of? PM me as I don't want to start a shitstorm that would get too close to politics/religion, but I can tell you the name.
    The Chinese yuan will be backed by gold, and be the dominate world currency in 10 years, replacing the dollar, which is backed by nothing at this point. More and more financial transactions are taking place worldwide without the use of the US dollar.
    The Chinese are dumping dollars as fast as they can and buying hard assets around the world. The Russians are in a position to do the same. Also, at this point there is no evidence that the US owns the gold they say they have. It seems it could be just the opposite.
    Check out JSMINESET.COM for some interesting reading.
    In this case I believe he is correct and this conspiracy nonsense is a confabulation of unrelated mistakes and crimes that should not be given too much importance.

    I do have to applaud the resolve of the guy who in choosing to end his own life, decided to use a nailgun and started on his torso before moving to his head.