For those Marines "in the know..."

[Fx51LP308]

Just a curious question about MOS vs Service Rank and how they fit with each other.

Historically, (or at least History as I see it), One often saw many GySgts (E7) as Senior D.Is (GySgt. Carter - Gomer Pyle, or (then) Tech Sgt. Jim Moore (Jack Webb in "The D.I."). But it seems these days that there are very few GySgts still "under the hat" in re: regular recruit training. You see them more in D.I. School, training marines to be D.I.s themselves. Most of the recruit training Senior DIs, these days are Staff Sgt. (E6) or even St. Likewise, I'm seeing more "1Lt.s" as Series or company commanders, rather than Captains.

I wonder what's going on here. Are they trying to push more responsibility onto more junior officers/NCOs in order to get the same work for lower pay? If a GySgt wanted to go or stay "under the hat" (because they like being a "basic recruit" D.I./senior DI), is that possible or would that work be considered below their pay grade and be asked to do something more befitting them?

 

[Ronin22]

No mention of GySgt Hartman? Eat a bowl of dicks! YUT!

 

[Fx51LP308]

No mention of GySgt Hartman? Eat a bowl of dicks! YUT!

Of course, GySgt Hartman, from the same time period. But my understanding is that R. Lee Ermey, while "under the hat," was a Staff Sgt (E6) and was promoted later on, perhaps even promoted "honoris causa."

 

[Emerson0311]

When, now? Or 35 years ago when many of us were the subjects of these DIs? My senior was staff sgt. DIs were sgts.

 

[Ronin22]

I imagine the real reason in the differing ranks at times is purely based on the primary MOS of that DI. Drill field is a "B-Billet" slot that helps a career Marine advance in points to promotion. Some MOS fields promote faster than others just as the norm. Some egg head super technical MOS have young ass baby face Marines with SSGT and GYSGT rank. Vs an infantry bubba that's a 35yr old Sgt. LOL.

 

[Fx51LP308]

When, now? Or 35 years ago when many of us were the subjects of these DIs? My senior was staff sgt. DIs were sgts.

I'm thinking more like 50 years ago, not 35 when I saw many more GySgts referenced. Although, I did see a Discovery channel special on PI in the early 2000s where there was a GySgt as a Senior DI giving the orientation speech to the recruits ("We offer you the challenge of Recruit Training....and the opportunity to earn the title, United States Marine").

 

[diggler1833]

Just a curious question about MOS vs Service Rank and how they fit with each other.

Historically, (or at least History as I see it), One often saw many GySgts (E7) as Senior D.Is (GySgt. Carter - Gomer Pyle, or (then) Tech Sgt. Jim Moore (Jack Webb in "The D.I."). But it seems these days that there are very few GySgts still "under the hat" in re: regular recruit training. You see them more in D.I. School, training marines to be D.I.s themselves. Most of the recruit training Senior DIs, these days are Staff Sgt. (E6) or even St. Likewise, I'm seeing more "1Lt.s" as Series or company commanders, rather than Captains.

I wonder what's going on here. Are they trying to push more responsibility onto more junior officers/NCOs in order to get the same work for lower pay? If a GySgt wanted to go or stay "under the hat" (because they like being a "basic recruit" D.I./senior DI), is that possible or would that work be considered below their pay grade and be asked to do something more befitting them?

So, you won't see a lot of GySgt "hats" out there pushing recruits very often because: 1) most of them are only going to do a couple of cycles before going into another job (like Drill Master or series GySgt). One reason is because it doesn't look all that great on Fitness Reports (the evaluations) when you have a GySgt sitting in the same billet typically held by SSgts or even a few hard-charging Sgts. That is a great way to look less competitive, even though they are on a B-billet. 2) Another reason is because of the Table of Organization doesn't exactly call for a lot of E-7s at the MCRDs. 3) Frequently, by the time a Marine has made it to GySgt he or she has also already done a B-billet elsewhere. Myself for example went on recruiting duty at 22 when I had 4 years in. I came out as a SSgt, and by my 11th year had pinned on GySgt. There was no need for me to try to further my career by volunteering to beat myself about the head and ears again for another 3 years on a second B-billet... and as a MSgt-chooser on my career path, more time away from my primary MOS would have been a bad thing.

^^^ Please take all of my terminology and billet examples with a grain of salt. I retired seven years ago. I don't pretend to keep up with anything USMC at all, so my information is old at best.

 

[diggler1833]

I'm thinking more like 50 years ago, not 35. Although, I did see a Discovery channel special on PI in the early 2000s where there was a GySgt as a Senior DI giving the orientation speech to the recruits ("We offer you the challenge of Recruit Training....and the opportunity to earn the title, United States Marine").

They probably cherry-picked the best example out there.

Or someone pulled rank so he could be on television.

I have a friend who is about 6 years behind me. He went on the drill field as a GySgt in 2018, and did one cycle as a "heavy", and then two more cycles as a senior before becoming the battalion drill master. Almost the same thing that happened to another friend (who has about 10 years on me) in the 2002 time frame. He did a couple of cycles before becoming the series GySgt, and I saw him frequently as I was stationed at PI myself (as a recruiter) at the same time.

 

[Fx51LP308]

So, you won't see a lot of GySgt "hats" out there pushing recruits very often because: 1) most of them are only going to do a couple of cycles before going into another job (like Drill Master or series GySgt). One reason is because it doesn't look all that great on Fitness Reports (the evaluations) when you have a GySgt sitting in the same billet typically held by SSgts or even a few hard-charging Sgts. That is a great way to look less competitive, even though they are on a B-billet.

That sucks, frankly. So a person (as hard as it is to imagine) who wants to stay "under the hat" because they enjoy "making new marines" (and get off on it) is penalized because they just like doing what they're doing and don't feel the need to advance? Sort of like a school teacher that likes just to teach and not rise to the higher levels of Supt. or directly to the BOE? Or for a more "movie based reference," Professor Kingsfield of "The Paper Chase," who remained a law professor when he could have been Dean of the law school or even president of the Univ. or a SCOTUS justice, all because he enjoyed teaching and got off when recognizing that his students learned stuff?

2) Another reason is because of the Table of Organization doesn't exactly call for a lot of E-7s at the MCRDs. 3) Frequently, by the time a Marine has made it to GySgt he or she has also already done a B-billet elsewhere. Myself for example went on recruiting duty at 22 when I had 4 years in. I came out as a SSgt, and by my 11th year had pinned on GySgt. There was no need for me to try to further my career by volunteering to beat myself about the head and ears again for another 3 years on a second B-billet... and as a MSgt-chooser on my career path, more time away from my primary MOS would have been a bad thing.

^^^ Please take all of my terminology and billet examples with a grain of salt. I retired seven years ago. I don't pretend to keep up with anything USMC at all, so my information is old at best.

No, thanks very much. It was helpful. I did, however, think of one other GySgt that was stationed as a receiving DI at San Diego about 16 years ago. His name is GySgt Vargas. I call him "Sgt. Octave." You'll see why as you watch.

 

[Ronin22]

Ok Lance fucker Ronin22, here’s your B billet options:
Drill field: “Nah, all that yelling n shit”
Recruiting: “Nah, I’m not a salesman”
Embassy Duty: “What’s that all about? Drink & party with diplomats and fuck women from all over the world. I’m in!”

That’s no shit neither.

 

[diggler1833]

Ok Lance fucker Ronin22, here’s your B billet options:
Drill field: “Nah, all that yelling n shit”
Recruiting: “Nah, I’m not a salesman”
Embassy Duty: “What’s that all about? Drink & party with diplomats and fuck women from all over the world. I’m in!”

That’s no shit neither.

I pushed to get into MSG duty as a LCpl with about 1.5 years in. Why my company and battalion even let me submit for it is a head scratcher. I only had to extend for about 11 months in order to get the orders. Unfortunately, I hurt myself prior to going to school, had surgery, went on limited duty for a while and got shuffled back close to a year. I was told I'd have to reenlist, and at that point I hated the Corps and wanted out. I declined and just lost my seat. I kicked myself for that immature decision for many years. Just a year later, I reenlisted and volunteered for recruiting duty.

^ That's like declining sex with the busty supermodel and choosing the fat girl with the crooked teeth instead.

 

[TheBigCountry]

From my time on the Island

Heavy Hat/Kill Hat were Sgt’s

Senior DI was a SSgt

The one Gunny I saw was over all of the DI’s in my series alongside the Series Commander, who was a Captain

Did manage to catch the wrath of a damn unicorn on the range one day, who just so happened to be a CWO Gunner lol. Great times.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Did manage to catch the wrath of a damn unicorn on the range one day, who just so happened to be a CWO Gunner lol. Great times.

Figures

 

[Bigfatcock]

The drill field on PI got much more, ummm, mature SNCO heavy immediately following recruit Siddiqui’s death. It started to get more youthful again around 2020.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Figures

 

[TheBigCountry]

I imagine the real reason in the differing ranks at times is purely based on the primary MOS of that DI. Drill field is a "B-Billet" slot that helps a career Marine advance in points to promotion. Some MOS fields promote faster than others just as the norm. Some egg head super technical MOS have young ass baby face Marines with SSGT and GYSGT rank. Vs an infantry bubba that's a 35yr old Sgt. LOL.

Don’t underestimate the 35 year old grunt Sgt

Or a salty ass Terminal Lance who’s been around a while lol.

 

[diggler1833]

Don’t underestimate the 35 year old grunt Sgt

Or a salty ass Terminal Lance who’s been around a while lol.

Most of the 35 year old Sergeants (or as close to that as you can get) that I knew had issues.

You could spot them pretty easily... high and tight, gear queer that always carried a second knife, and would try to talk you into trading your jalapeño cheese for his shitty peanut butter - while he applied extra mole skin to his blisters after a 6 mile hike.

 

[Ronws]

No mention of GySgt Hartman? Eat a bowl of dicks! YUT!

How about Gunnery Sergeant Leroy Jethro Gibbs? Formerly a Marine Scout Sniper but later transitioned to being a special agent for NIS, which later became NCIS.

Tell me which rifle he was fond of (I watched the show a little too much. Hint: he talks about it in an episode where they are looking for a sniper.)

 

[Redmanss]

I spent two years ('96-'98) working the ranges at PI. Seeing a SDI that was a Gunnery Sergeant was by far an exception rather than the norm. Memory fades, but I'd actually say there were more Sergeants that were seniors than Guns.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Most of the 35 year old Sergeants (or as close to that as you can get) that I knew had issues.

You could spot them pretty easily... high and tight, gear queer that always carried a second knife, and would try to talk you into trading your jalapeño cheese for his shitty peanut butter - while he applied extra mole skin to his blisters after a 6 mile hike.

You ain’t kidding

A good Sgt would find a way to skate it a 6 mile hump

And would hand out beers and Copenhagen on a long hump lol

 

[BKH28]

I only ever seen one senior drill instructor that was a Gunny on PI. He was the senior of the platoon on the floor right below us. Typically, only the chief drill instructors were E-7s.

 

[Fx51LP308]

How about Gunnery Sergeant Leroy Jethro Gibbs? Formerly a Marine Scout Sniper but later transitioned to being a special agent for NIS, which later became NCIS.

Tell me which rifle he was fond of (I watched the show a little too much. Hint: he talks about it in an episode where they are looking for a sniper.)

His "service" weapon was an M40A1 sniper rifle. But I believe he liked the Tac-Ops Bravo 51. At least he recognized it as being the rifle that killed NCIS Agent Katlin Todd. Because the Bravo-51 is referred to as a "KATE" II (Kill All The Enemy) by the Sniper community. And Ari (the sniper) used Lapua .308 175 grain BTFMJ Molly coated rounds. Yeah, I watched that one too.

I actually have two boxes of Lapua "Secnar" 175gr. .308 BTFMJ. Not Molly coated, though... Don't know who does that anymore...

But, to be fair, Leroy Jethro was never a DI.

 

[Bigfatcock]

GySgt SDI’s were pretty common following 2016 on PI. Same for more senior SSgt’s scattered throughout the regiment. That was intentional. It wasn’t unusual to have a GySgt CDI with a GySgt SDI in his series. Sgt SDI’s got rare and there was normally one per company, and he was the cream of the crop.

Battalion Drill Masters were usually a SSgt, and the Regimental Drill Master was a GySgt.

A lot of the GySgts you saw in DI school were on their second tour.

No idea what it’s like today.

 

[jrassy]

50 years ago my SDI was a Staff, , one DI was a Sargent, the other was a Corporal, Corporal Duncan. That fucker was about 5’ 5” and built like a brick shithouse. He used to tilt the brim of his Smokey so he could poke us poor bastards in the eyes with it, then scream “ did I say you could blink” . Good times. He had a couple hash marks so the rumor was he got busted down while running the brig on Okinawa. Added to his rep, never did find out if it was true.