With a front bag, how snugly should the bag hold the fore stock? Just wondering if it can be too snug and inhibit proper recoil (?). The stock on my range gun is 2 1/4" wide, so should the bag slot be that width, or maybe a little wider to facilitate proper recoil movement? Also, if anyone has any front bag/rest recommendations, would appreciate the tip. Thanks.
- Thread starter Turkeytider
- Start date
*Edited* Man, I answered that one wrong the first time. I was thinking of a different kind of bag.
I do use a front rest for load development occasionally. I try to match the width of the fore end of the stock as close as possible, with a little error going to the oversize side. I use several Protektor bags with the silver lining, and the rest allows me to adjust tension on the sides of the bag. I find that the forend of the stocks still move pretty freely and recoil stays pretty consistent, even though I'm not running a dedicated benchrest setup.
I do use a front rest for load development occasionally. I try to match the width of the fore end of the stock as close as possible, with a little error going to the oversize side. I use several Protektor bags with the silver lining, and the rest allows me to adjust tension on the sides of the bag. I find that the forend of the stocks still move pretty freely and recoil stays pretty consistent, even though I'm not running a dedicated benchrest setup.
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Match the width, any good benchrest will allow you to vary the tension on the sides of the stock, any good front bag will alllow you to adjust fill to get proper pinch for smooth straight free tracking
If you think that’s the widest you’ll go stick with it, a 3” bag and not touching the sides isn’t the end of the world.
You can see my 22 chassis in my 3” bag is maxed out in pinch but the bottom is still flat and it tracks straight enough as a… 22
If you think that’s the widest you’ll go stick with it, a 3” bag and not touching the sides isn’t the end of the world.
You can see my 22 chassis in my 3” bag is maxed out in pinch but the bottom is still flat and it tracks straight enough as a… 22
I don’t really use it from the backlash, I just whack the base around. The spiked feet digs up concrete benches pretty good. Oh well
I use caldwell bags that i filled to the max then adjust the levels so the stock uses all of the bags seating . Recoil.......its a 300 winmag and i shoot godzilla killa ammo so it recoils ...alot
For reference, by “front bag,” the OP is referring to this:
Not a forend rest bag on a machine rest.
Not a forend rest bag on a machine rest.
Well shit!
Then I suggest the reincarnation of the USA made Dog Gone Good bags made by Armageddon Gear. They took over production after the DGG bag guy retired. Still USA made.
The medium DGG one I have is way, way, way tougher than the cheapies out there. IMHO the medium is the way to go, but I shoot only up to 308.
Look like they currently make slightly smaller versions of both the medium and large bags.
DGG made a bunch of bags, including a monster large one and window versions for shooting out of a truck.
Armageddon medium (black, camo, tan)
DGG medium
For filler, this is what DGG had to say:
“Bag Filler
Bags can be shipped empty, or filled at the factory for a small fee. Filled bags also require an extra $5 packaging fee. The bags can be filled with polypropylene regrind which can be found where plastic is recycled (check yellow pages under lastic). Large bags will weigh about 22 lbs., medium bags about 13 lbs, small bags will weigh about 10 lbs. Ground walnut tumbling media will weigh about the same as polypropylene. Sand will weigh 60 lbs. in the large bag and about 45 lbs. in the medium, and the small bag will weigh about 30 lbs. For a light weight filling Buckwheat hulls can be obtained at a feed store and the large bag will weigh 6 lbs., and the small bag will weigh less than 3 lbs.”
I would never use sand in a bag like this. Way too heavy. Not sure what material AG uses to fill them.
Mine is factory filled with poly regrind from DGG and it’s awesome. Locks the gun in. Keep in mind the AG bags are slightly smaller so may weight a bit less when filled.
If you value your time or sanity at all, have AG fill the bag for you and pay extra for shipping. Seriously.
If you’d like to see the full range that DGG offered in the day, here is a link to the old DGG site that is archived.
Pro tip: if you need the bag higher on the bench, a lightweight but stable solution is to use those hard-ish firm knee pad rectangles for gardeners. Here are mine I use. The pad handles are nice to grab to slide the rifle & pads around as one unit. I use from 2 to 4 pads on my setups.
My setup. I’m not a free recoil sort of shooter and want the gun locked in. The DGG bag is peeled open and the gun is snugged into the X. Push it down and the thing turns into one unit…bag and rifle. Solid!
Initially I used 3/4” slabs of maple for spacers. FUCK that got heavy shlepping around!
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For posterity, @sloporsche & others here is a slightly edited quote from the DGG bag archived site regarding a tip how to reduce recoil from hard-kicking rifles in his bags.
“An added benefit of the large bag is that it will take almost all the recoil out of a heavy recoiling rifle when a piece of non-skid rubber shelf liner is put between the rifle and the leather where the rifle is cradled and the bottom legs of the bag are spread.
[Additionally] If a piece of non-skid rubber is placed under the bag, you can hardly pull the rifle from the bag or the bag off the bench.”
Those green knee pad things I use are almost as good for the under the bag part. They do slowly harden over the years, however, prob due to UV exposure.
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Ah...how could you tell that from the OP?
And if that's what he's talking about, frak Caldwell and get a Bullsbag and follow the directions which are to push the lower legs in a bit, drop your rifle into the top of the X bag, then pull the bottom wider until you have the amount of grip you want on it (personal preference).
10" Field Shooting Rest in Tree Camo with Tuff Tec Top | Bulls Bag
If you are looking for a great field shooting rest, be sure to check out the 10' field shooting rest designed by Bulls Bag. This little shooting rest is powerful and handy. We have it in Tree Camo with a Tuff Tec top. Check it out at our website.
www.bullsbag.com
That Bulls Bag looks wide open like a well-used hooker lol. My bag has the grip of a virgin butt.
Do you have a Bulls Bag?
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Oh, crap, the filled version of the Bulls Bag is filled with cat litter!
Major faux pas! If that gets wet it’ll turn into permanent concrete!
Major faux pas! If that gets wet it’ll turn into permanent concrete!
Yes. I don't use it much as I mostly shoot off of a bipod and rear bag but its a wonderful product, very well made, and is the original X bag.
I have a 10" but they make a 15" "bench" version also.
You fill it yourself with what you want (owner recommended kitty litter and I used it and it works very well....don't think you want to get it wet, however! haha) and you can easily vary the amount of fill to suit your preferences.
No.
I've communicated with the OP via PM and another forum.
He's having issues with losing his target in recoil, so the rifle isn't tracking on target the way it should. Largely, I'm not certain it what he's wanting can be delivered from any kind of X-bag. For the weight and size, upgrading to a machine rest would be much more fruitful.
I want to thank everybody for taking the time to chime in with observations and suggestions. My thanks to Varminterror especially who has really gone above and beyond in trying to help a rank rookie in rifle shooting with this issues and others. So.... in the spirit of said " rank rookiness " , what exactly is meant by the term " machine rest "? I may actually know examples of what that is, just not familiar with the term. Since these are recommended, I`d like to make sure I`m looking at the right things. Sounds expensive, I must say!
My front bag has a small rubber/leather stock rest but it sure could be bigger . Using hot hunting 300 win mag the only thing that will hold fast might be a 283 bare block using the main bearing caps to bolt it down lol
The knee pad idea is terrific IMHO, particularly if one might need a little more height on a rear bag.
Well, that rubber shelf liner is pretty cheap to try. Line the bottom of the front rest between the rest and gun and then between the front rest and the bench.
If you’re having recoil issues, the biggest single tip I can give you is: the shoulder pocket is not where you think it is.
It’s not the actual pocket next to your shoulder. As a right hander, it’s directly under my right jaw, right where the collarbone dives back into the chest near the middle of my chest.
Place the buttstock there. It feels a little weird. If you can rotate (cant) your buttpad a little, try that as that helps. SQUARE UP to the bench/target…don’t sit angled like most people do.
Your recoil immediately changes from rotating your body around and taking your eye off the scope’s view to a nice straight back recoil that allows you to see many impacts through the scope (depending on caliber and distance to target). 338 Lapua at 50yds, well, good luck and godspeed. But 308 at steel at 100, yeah.
Also, if at a bench, pretend you’re prone and bend a lot at the waist. Probably sit up a little higher (those garden knee pad things are helpful here too, as well as warmer for your butt in the winter).
This gets your fulcrum rearward and your body mass more inline behind the gun to absorb recoil better. And relax like the big meatbag that you are lol (we all are). Recoil is more controllable into a soft meatbag vs ricocheting off my flexed rock-hard pecs lololol.
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A mechanically elevated rest like the Rock JR you mentioned elsewhere. The Bald Eagle and Sinclair rests are fantastic for the money, with less lash than the Caldwells, and greatly improved windage control. The Rock JR you had was about as basic as a machine rest can get, and the bag that comes on it, plus the inability to compress the bag with the top, just doesn't really support the rifle for tracking the way you want.
Here's one of the Sinclair models, I have - I have a couple of Protektor bags to mount to this rest which lock onto my rifle forends, but pictured here is an Edgewood rest bag (fairly certain).
For a rounded sporter forend, stick one of these cheap EGW forend bag riders out front and party on.
You get much, much improved tracking and better rifle stability by squeezing a square forend like this bag rider block between the sides of a bag like the one pictured above. Comparing this to the Rock BR, you can see how the forend would be better supported and can ride the front bag like it's on rails - truly tracking straight into and out of the target.
These will be a dramatic improvement to your forward end support to stay true on target from the bench.
For the tail end, a bunny ear bag is almost impossible to beat for tracking on target. This is a great, inexpensive edgewood model. I prefer leather tops, then I powder and burnish the heck out of them to let the riflestock slide between the ears.
Alternatively - you can take an F/TR or ELR mentality to tracking, and use something like a Sinclair Skipod on a carpeted door mat under the front, with either an Edgewood or Protektor bunny ear like pictured above or something like a Cheney Airfoil rear bag:
These are combinations of gear which track straight into and out of targets. The Sinclair skipod on a door mat with an airfoil bag is a very affordable set up.
Thanks V. I`m going to research these and probably upgrade. No end to the ways to spend money, is there?
I’ve been walking that road for a long time, and I can’t even see the next exit sign ahead…
That X bag can shoot small, but you’ll be stuck rocking in recoil, and resetting a lot. A rest or skipod and a solid rear bag will really help.
For me it can be an issue of “feel.”
Sounds kinda dumb. But…
What I mean is how connected I feel to the event or moment. The event being shooting.
When I’ve experimented with a Protektor bunny ear bag and a Bald Eagle front rest I walked away feeling sort of disconnected from shooting. The less input I put into the gun the more accurate it can become, but something is lost in the process. For me.
X-bags, bipods, and rear squeeze bags make me feel connected to the rifle and are my sweet spot between feel and accuracy. Of course, laying down and shooting off a backpack or shooting offhand allow even more of a connectedness to the moment. But my accuracy suffers too much with that last one.
Imagine using a bow and arrow in a machine rest…I bet one would shoot better, but man, that would blow in terms of feel.
Everyone is different and I’m not disparaging anyone or trying to convince anyone either. Just sharing the idea that sometimes, raw accuracy isn’t the end goal. Or the only goal.
Sounds kinda dumb. But…
What I mean is how connected I feel to the event or moment. The event being shooting.
When I’ve experimented with a Protektor bunny ear bag and a Bald Eagle front rest I walked away feeling sort of disconnected from shooting. The less input I put into the gun the more accurate it can become, but something is lost in the process. For me.
X-bags, bipods, and rear squeeze bags make me feel connected to the rifle and are my sweet spot between feel and accuracy. Of course, laying down and shooting off a backpack or shooting offhand allow even more of a connectedness to the moment. But my accuracy suffers too much with that last one.
Imagine using a bow and arrow in a machine rest…I bet one would shoot better, but man, that would blow in terms of feel.
Everyone is different and I’m not disparaging anyone or trying to convince anyone either. Just sharing the idea that sometimes, raw accuracy isn’t the end goal. Or the only goal.
The Engineer in me wants to scream “Stone the Heretic, burn him” but been there done that. Got the point where the rifle is locked into a rest and other than my finger, I didn’t physically touch the rifle to shoot it. Great groups, fun from a theoretical point of view, but not shooting.
