Rifle Scopes Frank, are you willing post a comparison of ZCO 5x27 to Zeiss LRP S5 5x25

[Baron23]

@lowlight - Hi Frank...are you willing to post a bit of a contrast and compare between the ZCO and the Zeiss?

I saw the pic you posted from a comp this past week in CO (maybe?) with the S5 on your TacOps rifle and I know you also have ZCO (or maybe more than one) so I thought to ask you as I don't know anybody else with both.

We have gotten scope pics from a couple of sources but there are so many transitions from scope to camera to download to upload to my monitor that its very hard to draw firm conclusions.

You are expert, have a wide range of practical experience with rifle optics, and have both scopes, so I was wondering if you could draw any conclusions comparing the two.

If not....have a great Christmas!

 

[cjs88]

@GBMaryland has done some fine comparisons with other high end scopes. No ZCO but is there a huge difference between the SB PMII ultra bright and his classic PMII he tested? I've never looked through a ZCO or the new Zeiss.

 

[Baron23]

@GBMaryland has done some fine comparisons with other high end scopes. No ZCO but is there a huge difference between the SB PMII ultra bright and his classic PMII he tested? I've never looked through a ZCO or the new Zeiss.

Hi - @GBMaryland is my local buddy and I have seen his comparison pics between S&B and his new Zeiss. And, he is getting a 3D printed bridge so we can mount multiple scopes at the same time, same target, and look between.

But he doesn't have a ZCO which seems to be priced similarly as the Zeiss and both seem to be addressing the same market niche...no? And selfishly, I'm trying to decide between these two Z scopes for a new build that's underway.

Further:

scope pics from a couple of sources but there are so many transitions from scope to camera to download to upload to my monitor that its very hard to draw firm conclusions.

pics thru all of these transitions seem ok for broad generalizations, perhaps, but I don't think we should mistake this for exactly what we would perceive with our eyes and we shouldn't discount the effect of all the stuff between a pic that's taken and what we see on our monitor (and yes, my monitor may well look very different than yours with the very same image/file).

Further, there is way more to a comparison, I think, than just optical quality. For example, have you looked at their elevation turret and how to read it thru the 4th rotation? Its 12 mil per rotation....so, when you are up in the 3rd rotation do you just take the number on the bottom row and add 24...or add 36 to the number on the bottom line in the 4th rotation? Ok, so we can all add....but it doesn't seem very intuitive just from reading the manual but hands on experience may say "oh, it works like this and is quite easy and quick...no problemo".

Just think there is a lot more to it than just pics taken thru the scope with phone or scope camera and that the opinion of a very seasoned professional has great value, I believe.

That and Frank would be disappointed if I didn't bug him with endless questions! haha I have a rep to uphold, after all. LOL

 

[cjs88]

Fair enough. I wanted a ZCO for my next build too. The MK black friday deal on the LRP with $3 mount, free lever, level, caps, and ARD was too good to pass up, in my eyes at least.

 

[GBMaryland]

Well, similar to night vision equipment its difficult to get a picture that cleanly represents exactly what you see through the scopes.

The S5 and the PM IIs all have great glass. What was true was that I was able to get better pictures through the PM II, which did not seem to be that case when I was taking them.

When I was taking the pictures of the high tension power lines to the left of the range, which are 887 yards out, all of the scopes looked great.

The 5-25x56 PM II had a hawk flying around the tension lines, and you could see the edges of the wings perfectly.

The 4-16x56 Ultra Clear has so much light transmission that you get a little more purple on the edges on a bright day. Conversely, on the overcast day its super clean compared to the others, which are also really good.

Comparatively, when looking through that EOTech Vudu I have (a 5-25x50) the glass is slightly milky at x25, and the edges are all lined with purple (a sign of significant CA).

It would be nice to see a ZCO, but I have difficulty believing that the Zeiss or Schmidts would be crushed by a ZCO. Its likely that all of these high end scopes are similar…

 

[Baron23]

I have difficulty believing that the Zeiss or Schmidts would be crushed by a ZCO.

Hello my friend - "crushing" any scope was not the point of my inquiry.

Frank has them both, he has used them both, he has competed with them both, and he probably has experience with as broad a selection of different scopes as just about anybody.

I sort of think that justifies asking his opinion on not only optical quality but all other factors involved with owning/operating a LR scope, no?

Now, if we can only convince Frank to reply to the thread with the title that starts with "Frank" hahaha

 

[GBMaryland]

Now if we can only get him to bring out his high-end digital camera and take a bunch of pictures through the scopes that would be fantastic!

Frank… frank…. Frank…. Frank… @lowlight

 

[Nik H]

Hi - @GBMaryland is my local buddy and I have seen his comparison pics between S&B and his new Zeiss. And, he is getting a 3D printed bridge so we can mount multiple scopes at the same time, same target, and look between.

But he doesn't have a ZCO which seems to be priced similarly as the Zeiss and both seem to be addressing the same market niche...no? And selfishly, I'm trying to decide between these two Z scopes for a new build that's underway.

Further:

pics thru all of these transitions seem ok for broad generalizations, perhaps, but I don't think we should mistake this for exactly what we would perceive with our eyes and we shouldn't discount the effect of all the stuff between a pic that's taken and what we see on our monitor (and yes, my monitor may well look very different than yours with the very same image/file).

Further, there is way more to a comparison, I think, than just optical quality. For example, have you looked at their elevation turret and how to read it thru the 4th rotation? Its 12 mil per rotation....so, when you are up in the 3rd rotation do you just take the number on the bottom row and add 24...or add 36 to the number on the bottom line in the 4th rotation? Ok, so we can all add....but it doesn't seem very intuitive just from reading the manual but hands on experience may say "oh, it works like this and is quite easy and quick...no problemo".

Just think there is a lot more to it than just pics taken thru the scope with phone or scope camera and that the opinion of a very seasoned professional has great value, I believe.

That and Frank would be disappointed if I didn't bug him with endless questions! haha I have a rep to uphold, after all. LOL

Just continue to lay there and keep yapping

 

[Nik H]

It would be nice to see a ZCO, but I have difficulty believing that the Zeiss or Schmidts would be crushed by a ZCO. Its likely that all of these high end scopes are similar…

Not sure how you would quantify "crush" but the ZCO is significantly better than my S&B 5-25 PMII in many ways but not necessarily optically. The S&B tunnels badly below 8X. That aside, clarity are both good. I'm not going to get into resolution, contrast, color balance as I am not testing these in a manner that really would yield anything other than my subjective opinion. This means jack so I'll leave it to others to debate.

The ZCO 36mm tube provides a "big screen" perspective. If you haven't looked through it, you won't understand. The ZCO turrets CRUSH my S&B's DT turrets in terms of tactile feel and legibility. Tall target and box results were definitely in favor of the ZCO and this is the most important factor for me. A riflescope's primary purpose is to arrange a perfect intersection of POA and POI...if it doesn't do that well across its full elevation and windage range, then it is of little use to me.

I think the ZCO is the finest optic I have used including the TT. I am waiting for more quantitative testing from @koshkin

Until then I'll enjoy my ZCO

 

[GBMaryland]

If only we had a physicist that was willing to do a write up! Oh, wait...

 

[Baron23]

@Nik H

If only we had a physicist that was willing to do a write up! Oh, wait...

yeah, then we could lay there and talk about it

 

[Nik H]

If only we had a physicist that was willing to do a write up! Oh, wait...

Not my field of specialty...

Even if it were, the endless stream of questions and critiques would not be worth the stress...

I would be laying there for the rest of my life...ROFL

 

[GBMaryland]

@NikH Actually, I think what you posted was a very clear point of the differences...

- Larger tube of 36mm provides a better sight picture
- The turrets have a more tactile feel?

 

[308pirate]

Not my field of specialty...

Even if it were, the endless stream of questions and critiques would not be worth the stress...

I would be laying there for the rest of my life...ROFL

like casting pearls before the proverbial swine

 

[Baron23]

@lowlight - Hi Frank...are you willing to post a bit of a contrast and compare between the ZCO and the Zeiss?

If not....have a great Christmas!

Well, then I guess it’s “have a great Christmas! “

 

[Nik H]

Well, then I guess it’s “have a great Christmas! “

I think you are being ignored

 

[Baron23]

I think you are being ignored

Haha…no doubt. Lol

 

[PlinkIt]

First Baron couldn't hear Frank...

Now Frank can't hear Baron...

 

[GenericBadGuy]

I have owned a ZCO 4-20 and currently own a Zeiss S5 LRP 3.6-18.

By comparison the glass is better in the ZCO in terms of clarity, particularly at the high end.

That being said, I like the turrets on the Zeiss better. I dont mind big turrets. The tactile click imo is also better in the Zeiss. I didn't have to pay out the ass for a hard to find used 36mm Spuhr mount and the illumination of the Zeiss reticle is focused on the area I actually use. The Zeiss was also about $1,000 less than the MSRP on the ZCO.

If I had more money, I would buy a Tangent Theta TT525P with the 3XR reticle. But the Zeiss will fulfill what I need it to for.

 

[Baron23]

I have owned a ZCO 4-20 and currently own a Zeiss S5 LRP 3.6-18.

By comparison the glass is better in the ZCO in terms of clarity, particularly at the high end.

That being said, I like the turrets on the Zeiss better. I dont mind big turrets. The tactile click imo is also better in the Zeiss. I didn't have to pay out the ass for a hard to find used 36mm Spuhr mount and the illumination of the Zeiss reticle is focused on the area I actually use. The Zeiss was also about $1,000 less than the MSRP on the ZCO.

If I had more money, I would buy a Tangent Theta TT525P with the 3XR reticle. But the Zeiss will fulfill what I need it to for.

Wrt Zeiss turrets….not their size but rather the logic and legibility to determine which rotation you are in….since it's sort of base 12, do you find it difficult to quickly and confidently dial a specific elevation in the 3rd and 4th row?

Thanks for your reply

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Wrt Zeiss turrets….not their size but rather the logic and legibility to determine which rotation you are in….since it's sort of base 12, do you find it difficult to quickly and confidently dial a specific elevation in the 3rd and 4th row?

Thanks for your reply

It does have markings past 12 mil radians on the top row of the turret through the second full rotation and indicator lines at the base of the elevation cap.

Realistically with the 3.6-18 I wouldnt be using it past 24 mils anyways. Nice feature to have a little extra turret range as compared to the ZCO but not a huge factor in my use.

 

[PlinkIt]

I'm not sure I follow why there is a need sure 3rd turn indications...
Unless you are shooting multiple engagement quick targets over a mile...

Be for sure you have plenty of time to make sure if you are shooting this far out?

Just curious what I'm not thinking through

 

[bigprice]

@lowlight - Hi Frank...are you willing to post a bit of a contrast and compare between the ZCO and the Zeiss?































I saw the pic you posted from a comp this past week in CO (maybe?) with the S5 on your TacOps rifle and I know you also have ZCO (or maybe more than one) so I thought to ask you as I don't know anybody else with both.































We have gotten scope pics from a couple of sources but there are so many transitions from scope to camera to download to upload to my monitor that its very hard to draw firm conclusions.































You are expert, have a wide range of practical experience with rifle optics, and have both scopes, so I was wondering if you could draw any conclusions comparing the two.































If not....have a greatThat would Christmas! 







@lowlight - Hi Frank...are you willing to post a bit of a contrast and compare between the ZCO and the Zeiss?







I saw the pic you posted from a comp this past week in CO (maybe?) with the S5 on your TacOps rifle and I know you also have ZCO (or maybe more than one) so I thought to ask you as I don't know anybody else with both.







We have gotten scope pics from a couple of sources but there are so many transitions from scope to camera to download to upload to my monitor that its very hard to draw firm concfranklusions.







You are expert, have a wide range of practical experience with rifle optics, and have both scopes, so I was wondering if you could dYes raw any conclusions comparing the two.



If not....have a great Christmas!