Just curious if any members have any first hand experience with Front Sight, and your thoughts on their classes/schooling.
Thanks for your input.
Thanks for your input.
Training Courses Front Sight
- Thread starter LoanHarvey
- Start date
I've taken a lot of training there. There are a few things you should know
The kool-aid is non-stop. The 'Dr' who owns the place and handles all their promotions is definitely a used car salesman in his off time. The tone and the amount of propaganda and bullshit that flows from this dude is unbelievable. On the plus side, I've been out there often and I've never actually met him, which I consider a huge plus.
The facility is actually very nice. Large ranges, toilets and on-site hot food is now available, expect to be there with about 500 other people taking various classes. Nearly all the trainng they do is square-range training. They do have several simulators, both 'indoor' and in canyons, but you won't get much time in them unless you take a specific class (tactical scenarios)
The weapons handling cirriculum is a bit out dated and they aren't very flexible on variations for the beginner classes. And you MUST start with and ace the beginner classes before you can get into the interesting stuff. Expect to be brow-beaten with modified weaver stance by line coaches that generally aren't even aware of alternatives. Occasionally you will get a coach/RO that understands one size does not fit all and he will be helpful rather than obstructive with your progression. They mostly hire right out of the student pool these days. The reputable instructors have mostly been run off by the egos of admin.
The 'tactical' instruction leaves something to be desired. While a defensive class should contain defensive tactics cirriculum, they tend to blend in shit they have read in SWAT magazine or some shit, recommending 500lumen light for an indoor gun, singling out actions of a team member using aggressive group maneuvering that will prob get an individual killed etc. while some of it is practical, quite a bit of it of parroted garbage. Be careful.
The price is right. You can get a lifetime membership for about $250 if you know the right level member, and the only recurring fees are a $50 a year background check. It's up to 4 days at a time of range time, most of the people there are very nice normal middle class Americans enjoying the experience. I've had a lot of fun with a lot of different groups.
Avoid further grabs at your money for empty promises. And there will be lots of them. The admin almost runs the place like a Ponzi scheme. So go, enjoy yourself, get som range time in, and keep going elsewhere to other schools to get info from other (and more legitimate) knowledge pools.
Just my .02
The kool-aid is non-stop. The 'Dr' who owns the place and handles all their promotions is definitely a used car salesman in his off time. The tone and the amount of propaganda and bullshit that flows from this dude is unbelievable. On the plus side, I've been out there often and I've never actually met him, which I consider a huge plus.
The facility is actually very nice. Large ranges, toilets and on-site hot food is now available, expect to be there with about 500 other people taking various classes. Nearly all the trainng they do is square-range training. They do have several simulators, both 'indoor' and in canyons, but you won't get much time in them unless you take a specific class (tactical scenarios)
The weapons handling cirriculum is a bit out dated and they aren't very flexible on variations for the beginner classes. And you MUST start with and ace the beginner classes before you can get into the interesting stuff. Expect to be brow-beaten with modified weaver stance by line coaches that generally aren't even aware of alternatives. Occasionally you will get a coach/RO that understands one size does not fit all and he will be helpful rather than obstructive with your progression. They mostly hire right out of the student pool these days. The reputable instructors have mostly been run off by the egos of admin.
The 'tactical' instruction leaves something to be desired. While a defensive class should contain defensive tactics cirriculum, they tend to blend in shit they have read in SWAT magazine or some shit, recommending 500lumen light for an indoor gun, singling out actions of a team member using aggressive group maneuvering that will prob get an individual killed etc. while some of it is practical, quite a bit of it of parroted garbage. Be careful.
The price is right. You can get a lifetime membership for about $250 if you know the right level member, and the only recurring fees are a $50 a year background check. It's up to 4 days at a time of range time, most of the people there are very nice normal middle class Americans enjoying the experience. I've had a lot of fun with a lot of different groups.
Avoid further grabs at your money for empty promises. And there will be lots of them. The admin almost runs the place like a Ponzi scheme. So go, enjoy yourself, get som range time in, and keep going elsewhere to other schools to get info from other (and more legitimate) knowledge pools.
Just my .02
What kind of classes are you looking for?
If your looking for combat handgun, I recommend Roger Philips. He is based out of Vegas and most are in Vegas but he travels also. Here is his schedule. He adds more classes throughout the year. You just need to ask him what he's planning for future classes.
Fight Focused Concepts - 2014 Schedule
If your looking for grappling with a handgun, then theres one in Olympia. Suarez 0 to 5 feet. http://www.suarezinternationalstore...stol-gunfighting-olympia-wa.aspx#.U5FAeiy9KSM
If your looking for long range precision rifle, theres a good Magpul class in Yakima.
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/schedule.html
If your looking for a urban sniper, heres one not to far from you.
http://www.paragonpride.com/forum/threads/urban-sniping-operations.1686/
If your looking for combat handgun, I recommend Roger Philips. He is based out of Vegas and most are in Vegas but he travels also. Here is his schedule. He adds more classes throughout the year. You just need to ask him what he's planning for future classes.
Fight Focused Concepts - 2014 Schedule
If your looking for grappling with a handgun, then theres one in Olympia. Suarez 0 to 5 feet. http://www.suarezinternationalstore...stol-gunfighting-olympia-wa.aspx#.U5FAeiy9KSM
If your looking for long range precision rifle, theres a good Magpul class in Yakima.
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/schedule.html
If your looking for a urban sniper, heres one not to far from you.
http://www.paragonpride.com/forum/threads/urban-sniping-operations.1686/
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I liked Suarez basic handgun, team tactics, cqb, patrolling classes. As a civilian now, I done know where else to take better. Do you have a recommendation for these type of classes?
Regarding long range. I also took Caylens LRP 1. Actually twice. iI have taken alot of training classes over the last few years and his class was above and beyond everything I have seen so far. Hes just on a different level.
Front Sight
Caylen is that rare kind of instructor who has the knowledge, skills, abilities AND meaningful experience in his craft PLUS the ability to communicate it well to adults. His easy-going personality and friendly manner doesn't hurt the instruction process either.
If you don't know anything, Suarez is better than nothing. And, to be fair, a lot depends on the particular instructor that you happen to get with them. But they have offered training to those in the know, read: SF, and have embarrassed themselves badly in the past doing it (or so I hear: I wasn't there for that one).
Caylen is that rare kind of instructor who has the knowledge, skills, abilities AND meaningful experience in his craft PLUS the ability to communicate it well to adults. His easy-going personality and friendly manner doesn't hurt the instruction process either.
If you don't know anything, Suarez is better than nothing. And, to be fair, a lot depends on the particular instructor that you happen to get with them. But they have offered training to those in the know, read: SF, and have embarrassed themselves badly in the past doing it (or so I hear: I wasn't there for that one).
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Thank you all for your comments. The reason I asked is that a friend of mine is a personal friend of one of the original members (they call them "first family") who has those "ambassador memberships" for $99. My friend took the defensive handgun class, and felt the $99 for the lifetime membership was well worth the price to attend even just that one class. Didn't hurt that he has a time share in Vegas either. So he recommended that I buy one of these memberships so that I could attend any of their classes at no additional expense anytime in the future, and 40% off stuff in the pro shop. (like a gun rental package for those people who cannot bring their own gun)
So, I spent the $99 and have a membership card. Not sure if I will ever use it, but for $99 price I went for it. I get those pesky phone calls from the "Dr" and they are still selling the kool-aid, apparently now they are trying to find investors for the hotel that does not yet exist. Anyhow, if anyone is interested in one of those $99 memberships, just let me know and I will forward you the guys name and email.
So, I spent the $99 and have a membership card. Not sure if I will ever use it, but for $99 price I went for it. I get those pesky phone calls from the "Dr" and they are still selling the kool-aid, apparently now they are trying to find investors for the hotel that does not yet exist. Anyhow, if anyone is interested in one of those $99 memberships, just let me know and I will forward you the guys name and email.
Take the membership for $99. It's pretty hard to spend 4 days on the trigger and NOT get better. So make some enjoyable trips, and keep training as many places as possible. It's only 100 bucks
Sounds like your going to have a great time with your friend. And thats a great price for a class too. My favorite classes has always been the ones where my friends were there also.
When your first starting out, every beginner handgun class is teaching the same stuff. Safety, presentation, sights, grip, trigger, reloads, malfunction clearing, and lots of repetition. Honestly theres probably a guy teaching the same class within an hour of where ever you live. For example, I took a 8 hr $40 beginner class from my local club and we covered all the areas I just mentioned.
The group of guys I shoot with have taken handgun classes from Gunsite, Frontsight, Suarez, and Roger Phillips. All these schools are in the same area around Vegas. They said Roger Phillips is a step above Suarez and that Suarez was a step above Gunsite and Frontsight. Based on their recommendation I skipped Gunsite and Frontsight and took several handgun classes from Suarez that took me from beginner through intermediate. Then I moved onto Roger Phillips for the advanced skills. They were right about Roger Phillips being on another level. I learned some extremely advanced skills from him. Moving and shooting, ambidextrous, moving and shooting ambidextrous, night fighting, force on force, force on force at night. I would like to see how far I can take this. Just not sure where to go next. Roger has a Tom Sotis knife vs gun class coming up. I guess I will take that one because its the next one. After that, who knows.
When your first starting out, every beginner handgun class is teaching the same stuff. Safety, presentation, sights, grip, trigger, reloads, malfunction clearing, and lots of repetition. Honestly theres probably a guy teaching the same class within an hour of where ever you live. For example, I took a 8 hr $40 beginner class from my local club and we covered all the areas I just mentioned.
The group of guys I shoot with have taken handgun classes from Gunsite, Frontsight, Suarez, and Roger Phillips. All these schools are in the same area around Vegas. They said Roger Phillips is a step above Suarez and that Suarez was a step above Gunsite and Frontsight. Based on their recommendation I skipped Gunsite and Frontsight and took several handgun classes from Suarez that took me from beginner through intermediate. Then I moved onto Roger Phillips for the advanced skills. They were right about Roger Phillips being on another level. I learned some extremely advanced skills from him. Moving and shooting, ambidextrous, moving and shooting ambidextrous, night fighting, force on force, force on force at night. I would like to see how far I can take this. Just not sure where to go next. Roger has a Tom Sotis knife vs gun class coming up. I guess I will take that one because its the next one. After that, who knows.
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Best for anyone starting out. Excellent training. Not very advanced classes but I would definitely go! I love going there.
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