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Gunsmithing Frozen bolt..... I really did this time

T

trauma1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 23, 2012
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Yes I did a search and did not find the answer.
I was working up loads for 300 win mag with Stiller action and bolt. I took a good load and tried to make it better...You know what happened next.
Fired the round. It was too hot. Went to extract and the bolt turned about 1/4 turn and froze. I gave it another pull and the bolt handle came off. It did not brake, I just broke the weld. I have bathed it in kroll and headed to sniper's hide to see just how much trouble I am in this time.
Where do I go from here?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
 
Follow up report #2
I called Stiller to ask for advise about the bolt handle coming off. They said we stand by our work and will fix it and refinish at no charge. I sent it off today. Sounds like rock solid customer service so far. I will let you know how it turns out and post pictures.




Follow up. 4 hr bath in Kroll with barrel down. Tapped gently with screw driver and mallet on bolt flutes and it came right open.
I have learned a lesson with out loosing an eye. The brass head stamp is imprinted on the bolt face. Have I done damage to the bolt?
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Trauma1
 
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Remove the stock and trigger. Get a friend to hold the cocking piece back while you try and rotate the bolt and another friend to use a cleaning rod to tap on the case. Or take the easy way out and send it to me and Ill fix it for you.


Sorry I didn't see your last post.
You probably didn't hurt your gun. Just have the handle screwed and welded rather than silver soldered.
 
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Thank you hsss. I will take your advice on the replant. I do believe Kroll will creep in to places now. The brass was completely covered. The bolt came right open.

More importantly.... I will never push the upper limits on reloads again!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Is that normal for the brass head stamp to imprint on the bolt face? I see that a lot.
 
It can happen to the best of us. I was working up loads for my .510 WSM in a model 70 one night when my phone rang. I took the call and continued to load. This was after 15ish years of hand loading. What an idiot. Needless to say, I double charged and ended up with almost 30 grains of 2400 beneath a 550g cast bullet. Hardest recoil ever, and it had a Knoxx comp stock, so I didn't get scope eye, I got scope face. I seriously thought I'd blown my face off because of all the blood.
Long story short, no distractions are permissible when making ammo.
 
trauma1 said:
Yes I did a search and did not find the answer.
I was working up loads for 300 win mag with Stiller action and bolt. I took a good load and tried to make it better...You know what happened next.
Fired the round. It was too hot. Went to extract and the bolt turned about 1/4 turn and froze. I gave it another pull and the bolt handle came off. It did not brake, I just broke the weld. I have bathed it in kroll and headed to sniper's hide to see just how much trouble I am in this time.
Where do I go from here?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Click to expand...

What was the load? When I load 300WM i stay about a grain from max, more or less. 75.5grs RE22 with 180s is what I load.
 
Here's a technique that will help everyone. This won't make a save if you have a catastrophic OH SHIT like a case separation but will help when you have a normal screw up.

WARNING DO NOT USE THIS PROCEURE WITH A LOADED ROUND

Step 1 place the muzzle on a block of wood on the floor or other solid object.
Step 2 place another block of wood on the bolt shroud
Step 3 take a big F'n hammer and whack the block of wood on the shroud three times or more. This relieves the pressure on the bolt lugs by driving the case into the chamber
Step 4 lift bolt handle until it makes contact with the camming surface on the action
Step 5 while putting moderate pressure on the bolt handle have a friend tap on a cleaning rod inserted down the muzzle.

This saves the bolt handle and the extractor.

For those of you who just have to use a big hammer and beat on things don't use the end of the bolt handle. Get as close to the bolt body as possible. Long handles mean leverage. It cuts both ways.
 
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Dave,

Thanks, I learned something. I haven't run into this problem myself, but one or two folks have asked me how to handle this situation after they ignored advice on how to work up loads, and I've always recommended a smith.

DocB
 
The load was 73.5 gr IMR 4831/ BHA brass/ win mag primer/ 230 BRG Hybrid Match. The rookie move was I loaded them longer than I intended and thought I would just accept it and give it try. The chrono said it was going 3032fps. You know the rest of the story. I had good data on this round with it just kissing the lands. It chambered snug, but not tight, if that makes since. Anyway, enough of that for me.
 
Ouch!, you win!



Delta4-3 said:
It can happen to the best of us. I was working up loads for my .510 WSM in a model 70 one night when my phone rang. I took the call and continued to load. This was after 15ish years of hand loading. What an idiot. Needless to say, I double charged and ended up with almost 30 grains of 2400 beneath a 550g cast bullet. Hardest recoil ever, and it had a Knoxx comp stock, so I didn't get scope eye, I got scope face. I seriously thought I'd blown my face off because of all the blood.
Long story short, no distractions are permissible when making ammo.
Click to expand...
 
trauma1 said:
The load was 73.5 gr IMR 4831/ BHA brass/ win mag primer/ 230 BRG Hybrid Match. The rookie move was I loaded them longer than I intended and thought I would just accept it and give it try. The chrono said it was going 3032fps. You know the rest of the story. I had good data on this round with it just kissing the lands. It chambered snug, but not tight, if that makes since. Anyway, enough of that for me.
Click to expand...

wow! i would like to known the chamber psi on that one.
 
Instead of half-assing the repair with screws etc, have a smith with a clue tig weld the handle to the bolt body.
 
Sorry, but that does make me feel better. Thank hou for posting pic w/screw placement. I was not sure what that was going to look like.




Desert Fox said:
Your not the only one. Same thing happen with my 6.5-284 Norma.










Install 2 allen screw, grind and then silver solder.

Click to expand...
 
hsss said:
Just have the handle screwed and welded rather than silver soldered.
Click to expand...



This one reason I really like "One Piece" bolts like the PTG's. Definitely should get the Stiller bolt screw anchored. Have them added if you get the bolt back from Stiller without them.
 
trauma1 said:
Scout..lso the tig weld will be stronger than a screw and weld?
Click to expand...

If properly tigged, there is no need for a screw. It has been my experience that the majority of the times a screw is used with a weld is because the smith who reattaches the bolt does not weld so he locates the bolt, screws it on, then farms out the welding work.
 
I had thought that Stiller came with one piece bolt.

So you get a Stiller, then have to buy a PTG bolt, and have it fitted.
 
Stiller's do come with a one piece bolt. NOW
What I don't understand is the mentality that it's a given that one day you'll take a hammer to a perfectly good rifle. Seems like the hammer should be used to calibrate your head.
But I guess there are some things that can't be fixed.
 
DAVETOOLEY said:
Stiller's do come with a one piece bolt. NOW
What I don't understand is the mentality that it's a given that one day you'll take a hammer to a perfectly good rifle. Seems like the hammer should be used to calibrate your head.
But I guess there are some things that can't be fixed.
Click to expand...

I guess you could just leave that stuck case in the rifle and make it a Safe Queen.

Sometimes it's just plain necessary to use a hammer or the more precision form, a mallet.
 
DAVETOOLEY said:
Stiller's do come with a one piece bolt. NOW
What I don't understand is the mentality that it's a given that one day you'll take a hammer to a perfectly good rifle. Seems like the hammer should be used to calibrate your head.
But I guess there are some things that can't be fixed.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks. I thought I had read that.

I don't plan on taking a hammer to my rifle, but I prefer one piece over welded, welded over silver soldered.

That is just the over kill engineer in me. :)
 
C Dixon has a jig to remove the action from the barrel, I watched him make it, for someone else of course! Once the bolt handle is broken off, and the bolt is still stuck, you're kinda fucked.
 
milo 2.0 said:
C Dixon has a jig to remove the action from the barrel, I watched him make it, for someone else of course! Once the bolt handle is broken off, and the bolt is still stuck, you're kinda fucked.
Click to expand...

There are still a few "tricks" one can apply. Some you don't want any to watch you do however and most will involve a destroyed bolt. One is to drill a hole in the side of the bolt where it's exposed in the ejection slot. Use of a hammer and punch will allow you to unlock the bolt. Dremel off he burr and then knock case and bolt out using a brass rod inserted in the muzzle. Just be sure to grind off the burr raised by the punch before it hits the action at the top. May have to repeat, drilling a new hole, if the bolt has to be turned a significant amount.

Bolt body is history but the firing pin, spring, cocking piece can all be salvaged.
 
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