FTF issues with AR 10

[cptpizzo]

Hey all,

I wanted to get your opinions on the AR 10 and FTF issues. More specifically, I have a POF P308 which fails to feed and jams every so often. I understand that I am not using ideal ammo (Federal and Fiocchi 150gr), but wanted to check to see if it is indeed the ammo, normal for the 308 semi auto, or just POFs?

I'm interested to hear your experiences.

Thanks for your help in advance,

Alex

 

[cecchino76]

Hey all,

I wanted to get your opinions on the AR 10 and FTF issues. More specifically, I have a POF P308 which fails to feed and jams every so often. I understand that I am not using ideal ammo (Federal and Fiocchi 150gr), but wanted to check to see if it is indeed the ammo, normal for the 308 semi auto, or just POFs?

I'm interested to hear your experiences.

Thanks for your help in advance,

Alex

Hey Alex; maybe you should check the gas system,
Sometimes the FTF on an AR ( expecially in calibers other than 223-5.56) is caused by poor gas flow;
I don't know if your POF has an adustable gas system or not but, if it does ,you should play with it and regulate the correct amount of gas flow!
Or could also be your extactor in your bolt ; you can find that out by cycling some dummy rounds or live ammo with your charging handle ;
and if it extract the rounds correctly you know is not the extractor;
Star checking on those two factors and if problem is not solved moove to something else like: Spring, buffer

 

[jimmykm21]

Could you have the gas plug in suppressed mode?

 

[ORD]

What does "fails to feed and jams every so often" really mean?

What, specifically, is the FTF (or "jam") in question? (Failing to pick up a round from the mag? Hanging up when being stripped from the mag? Jamming the round into the barrel extension somewhere and not into the chamber? etc., etc., etc.)

How often, specifically, is "every so often?" (1x per mag? 1x per 50 rounds? etc.)

You are right about the ammo...not really the "best" but not exactly steel-cased garbage either. You can certainly TRY some better ammo (especially some 168gr and heavier pills) and see if that relieves the issue.

Also, what mags are you running? Not all were created equal and depending on the specific jams/failures, it could possibly be mag-related.

Finally, check to ensure that your gas plug (or the actual piston itself if its an OLD model P-308...should be 2-grooves FORWARD if it is an old model) is correctly oriented to the "Normal" position and not on "Suppressed" (although that probably wouldn't really explain "sporadic" issues like what you may be describing).

 

[bb6kid]

What mags are you using? And the pof is piston driven so check that also

 

[cptpizzo]

What does "fails to feed and jams every so often" really mean?

What, specifically, is the FTF (or "jam") in question? (Failing to pick up a round from the mag? Hanging up when being stripped from the mag? Jamming the round into the barrel extension somewhere and not into the chamber? etc., etc., etc.)

How often, specifically, is "every so often?" (1x per mag? 1x per 50 rounds? etc.)

You are right about the ammo...not really the "best" but not exactly steel-cased garbage either. You can certainly TRY some better ammo (especially some 168gr and heavier pills) and see if that relieves the issue.

Also, what mags are you running? Not all were created equal and depending on the specific jams/failures, it could possibly be mag-related.

Finally, check to ensure that your gas plug (or the actual piston itself if its an OLD model P-308...should be 2-grooves FORWARD if it is an old model) is correctly oriented to the "Normal" position and not on "Suppressed" (although that probably wouldn't really explain "sporadic" issues like what you may be describing).

ORD,

Sorry for the limited info.

- FTF as best as I can describe it is somewhat stovepiped spent case with BCG into the next round, denting the brass, not fully into chamber. I would guess it matches your description "Jamming the round into the barrel extension somewhere and not into the chamber" - BCG half open
- How often, I would say every 10-15 rounds?
- Running PMAG gen 2 or 3.
- Gas plug in N mode, grooves facing up (away from barrel).

Now this happened with both P308 uppers. One 20rd PMAG. FYI.
I was thinking these issues could be related to Recoil spring, gas timing, magazine.

I'll try 168gr this weekend.

Thanks for the help,

Alex




Alex

 

[jimmykm21]

"Now this happened with both P308 uppers" "One 20rd PMAG"



Am I reading this right? You have two uppers and it happening to both?
And you only have one mag .First thing I would try is a different mag if it's doing it to both uppers.

 

[cptpizzo]

"Now this happened with both P308 uppers" "One 20rd PMAG"



Am I reading this right? You have two uppers and it happening to both?
And you only have one mag .First thing I would try is a different mag if it's doing it to both uppers.

JimmyKM You read that correct! Haha. And it's also what I was thinking.

I 'll diagnose this FTF issue this weekend and appreciate all the help and suggestions.

However, before we go down the rabbit hole on what's specifically wrong with my rifle, I wanted to know if all AR10s go through these issues? I know every rifle from the factory isn't perfect, but if POF has more issues than others, that info is helpful. I am looking into getting an LP LRP7 very soon and didn't want to have great expectations for an AR 10 if they all require a little TLC out of the box and have similar issues. As it is with POF, my expectations were "Relentless Reliability"....

Thanks!

 

[ORD]

The issues you are experiencing are NOT within normal (or anywhere close to it) with your POF. I have owned (and still own) several POF rifles, including a P-308 20" that is one of my go-to rifles and it has been nothing short of 100% from the get-go in terms of reliability with a wide array of different ammo from factory fodder to my own reloads. Jamming up (regardless of the type of jam) up to 2x per mag is wholly unacceptable even if this was some bargain basement cobbled together build, much less from a factory production rifle.

Since it appears you are having issues with multiple uppers and only 1 mag used between them...that'd be my first priority. Get a couple mags (whether PMAGs or otherwise) and see if a new mag resolves the issue. Despite all the hype re: Magpul products, even Magpul puts out a lemon once in a while and its possible that you just happen to have a bad mag that's causing/contributing to your hang-ups.

Additionally, while they'll generally function fine with lighter weight ammo (incl. 147gr ball and the ~150gr factory stuff you've been trying), mine never liked the lighter stuff all that well. While it functions fine on lighter stuff, including some 147gr ball I've put through it and some 155gr Scenars I've reloaded for it, the heavier pills/loads seem to be more accurate. I'm not saying that moving up to 168gr and heavier stuff will fix any issues you are having, but it couldn't hurt! Garbage in...garbage out!

Good luck with your T&E this weekend. Let us know what you discover.

 

[jimmykm21]

[QUOTE

However, before we go down the rabbit hole on what's specifically wrong with my rifle, I wanted to know if all AR10s go through these issues?

Thanks![/QUOTE]



No, not at all . I have an ArmaLite SASS .308 and it runs with no problems .

I don't own a POF .308 but I do own their 5.56 upper and they build a quality product . Of course anything can get by a builder once and a while but to have it happen to both uppers
would seem highly unlikely . I would address the mag issue first by trying out the same ammo you were firing in another mag. If it stills happens with a different mag then switch ammo to a higher quality ammo. If the upppers run fine then you know it was a ammo issue.

Now you have to ask your self a question after . If you want to run lower power ammo you can switch out buffer springs but sometimes it could throw the timing off. You can experiment with it but I would be very cautious in this .

I believe though you are going to find out it was only a magazine issue.

 

[cptpizzo]

[QUOTE

However, before we go down the rabbit hole on what's specifically wrong with my rifle, I wanted to know if all AR10s go through these issues?

Thanks!

No, not at all . I have an ArmaLite SASS .308 and it runs with no problems .

I don't own a POF .308 but I do own their 5.56 upper and they build a quality product . Of course anything can get by a builder once and a while but to have it happen to both uppers
would seem highly unlikely . I would address the mag issue first by trying out the same ammo you were firing in another mag. If it stills happens with a different mag then switch ammo to a higher quality ammo. If the upppers run fine then you know it was a ammo issue.

Now you have to ask your self a question after . If you want to run lower power ammo you can switch out buffer springs but sometimes it could throw the timing off. You can experiment with it but I would be very cautious in this .

I believe though you are going to find out it was only a magazine issue.[/QUOTE]

Jimmykm,

Right on man. I have a POF 5.56 as well and functions flawlessly. Just weird luck with the 308s.

Anyway, thanks to all for the sound advice. I'll report back this weekend.

Alex

 

[hunterb]

95% chance it's a mag issue. 1 PMAG?! C'mon man! they are dirt cheap.
When you find a finicky magazine, throw it in the garbage. They are supposed to be disposable.

 

[cptpizzo]

Lol. I have many more, just forgot to bring em that day.


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[30calDeath]

On my REPR I had changed the stock over to a Magpul UBR from the fixed VLTOR or similar stock that was on the gun when I had received it. I put in a Slash's heavy buffer and had problems, I dont know if the buffer/spring had to be broken in but I was sick of the issue (FTF/short stroking/etc) and went back to the stock spring/buffer that LWRC uses and I havent had a single issue since. So its a possibility that you have the wrong buffer/spring combo for your gun.

 

[cptpizzo]

Ok, brought some PMAGs to the indoor range today (weekend is super rainy), and tested out the P308 16in. Used same ammo to keep all variables constant. Had about 2 FTFs running through about 40 rounds which still does not make me warm and fuzzy...

I have friends with P308s, and LWRCs for that matter, that had to send their rifles in as their bolts cycled too fast probably b/c of the gas pressure and timing.

In any event, figured I would update you all that were trying to help. I forgot to take pics of the brass in the receiver, but basically, the empty brass was stuck in with the next round trying to feed forward.

I did however, manage to get a pic of one of the rounds that was trying to feed forward, if that is of any interest.
The pic shows the dent where the bolt slammed into the brass.


Thanks for the info all,
Alex

 

[MGN]

I have not had an issue with any of my POF rifles except where my reloads caused issues, not bumping the shoulders sufficiently. The issues that I have observed that others have had with a POF are placing lube and or grease on the piston or op rod and running the bolt dry. Make sure that the op rod and piston are dry and the bolt and bcg are lightly lubed.

 

[VKC]

I've had issues with my new POF, and it appeared to be from barrel treatment and just required the chamber and feed ramp to be polished clean and the bolt carrier to be lubed well and cycled several times. Some ammo is also seated long and out of spec.


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[cptpizzo]

I've had issues with my new POF, and it appeared to be from barrel treatment and just required the chamber and feed ramp to be polished clean and the bolt carrier to be lubed well and cycled several times. Some ammo is also seated long and out of spec.


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That's good to know.

Does your local gunsmith do the polishing?

Alex


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[VKC]

That's good to know.

Does your local gunsmith do the polishing?

Alex


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I did it myself with a chamber brush and solvent. Left it to soak then cleaned it.


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