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GAP 10 v POF 308

jevoe

Private
Minuteman
I have read my fair share of nonsense between this site and ARF since getting into ARs and recently started posting a bit of my own questions/findings. I have a request:

Has anyone done a range report comparing a new GAP 10 and new POF 308? I'm curious to see how they fire side by side with same shooter/ammo/time. For all the bad talk I've heard about POF from the LMT/LWRC shooters its kind of strange to me that GAP would pick POF to supply the upper and lower. Please chime in with personal objective experience and/or links to range reports. Thanks guys.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Additionally if there are any GAP owners in Southeast Michigan Oakland County area that would like to meet up at Mt. Morris shooting range and compare rifles let me know. You're welcome to put a few rounds downrange with my POF and your GAP so we can get some real data.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I'm not really sure the brand of the upper and lower has a lot to do with the accuracy of the rifle. The only exceptions to that may be that the POF upper and handguard system is free floating with a very stable optics mount, and the POF lower appears to be delivered to GAP with Hogan trigger, which in my opinion is pretty nice. From an accuracy stand point I am sure GAP could have done the same thing with most any make of upper and lower. The choice to use POF was more likely due to something else, perhaps POF's willingness to enter into the supply agreement, their ability to delivera certain volume, etc.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

As CNC stated, POF agreed to supply GAP with the parts and to their specs for a certain price point. AFAIK the only parts supplied to GAP are the upper, lower and the handguard. The trigger is not a POF. The BCG is not POF. The barrel is Bartlein, not Rockwell. The POF is piston and the GAP is not.

The GAP 10 is a custom built rifle using some factory parts. Much the same as using a Remington 700 action for a custom build from GAP or Clay Spencer.

I am not down grading the POF, I do not have one and my GAP 10 is on order. Just merely stating the differences...
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Actually, the trigger is a POF, at least mine is. It says so right on the side of it, engraved in the blue alumnium housing. My understanding is the trigger is actually supplied to POF by Hogan.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

No worries, I think that actually sweetened the business case for GAP. They can buy a lower with nice trigger, upper, and handguard from a single source, probably cheaper than buying the parts seperate from multiple vendors. I let a guy at the range shoot mine and he was in awe of the trigger. He said years ago he chose an M1A over an AR-10 thinking it was a better 3078 platform. It probably was, but the AR-10 has come a long way recently, the GAP-10 being a prime example.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Here we go again with the apples and oranges comparisons of x-platform vs. y-platform.

The simple fact is that despite some commonality of parts like the receivers/hanguards/etc., the POF P-308 rifles and the GAP-10 rifles are night and day in nearly every key aspect from the barrels to the basic operating methods to the hand-crafting/tuning that goes into the GAP versus a factory production rifle.

Now, with all that said, I have had my P-308 20" SPR for a couple years now and it has been absolutely reliable and incredibly accurate producing sub-MOA accuracy since day one. I have consistently achieved 3/4 MOA with factory match ammo, including 168gr, 175gr BH and FGMM. I also have a 155gr Scenar handload that has been getting just under 3/4MOA.

Not to take away anything from the POF rifles which I feel are excellent in my own experience, but the reports from Lowlight and others here on the forum are that the GAP-10 rifles they have fielded are consistently getting 1/2MOA accuracy with many groups hovering in the 1/4MOA RANGE!!! That is attaining a level of accuracy not found in many precision bolt action rifles and is nearly unheard of with a semi-auto. Try running a search for reports on the GAP-10 rifles that have already been delivered to some of the membership here. It simply doesn't get any better than that AND it isn't just accurate. Reliability, durability (short term anyway since these are new to the market) and overall value are just incredible...but what do you expect from a true custom-built rifle.

There aren't any side-by-side comparisons of the two platforms that I am aware of at this point, but again...its an apples/oranges comparison other than "they kinda look alike." If you want to see some "sort-of" comparisons, there are vids/posts of Lowlight shooting different POF rifles, as well as his recent reports on the GAP-10. Dig around a little on the search engine (see my sig line) and make your own observations and conclusions as to what YOU think about the platforms.





<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PSA/RANT</span></span></span> - Stay the #$%& off of BARFCOM if you want any truly meaningful dialogue on various AR-platforms or turn on your BULL$#!T filter and use your common sense to try to see through some of the obviously "biased" positions of some of the membership over there. You can glean some good information from that site at times, but it has to come with a LOT of patience and a LOT MORE tolerance than some can endure!!
wink.gif
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

If the POF and the GAP are the same price.. I know which I would pick. I have nothing against POF, but they are not as high on my list of 308 ARs as some other makes. All that being said, my use may differ from yours and result in different determening factors for selection.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I've read all the GAP-10 reports currently out there, I just really want to see the same shooter and same ammo on same day do a side by side for my own personal preference. I never thought of the POF as a factory production rifle more than the GAP, especially since their MSRP prices are pretty close to identical. I'd really like to hear you elaborate on what's different in their methods/production as I'm ignorant on those details and haven't found any objective information.

I am tired of swapping out optics on my POF and was thinking about buying a 20" upper to run the Nikon scope when I go hunting. Now that I've been reading all the good stuff about the GAP I am considering their gun but I want to see a real side by side comparison and learn more about what differs between them before I sink the extra money into a whole new AR instead.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I can see about doing it as I have both..

However I will say I have found my POF to be extremely accurate. Other than the obvious Di vs Piston, both have excellent barrels which is key.

My POF has been used as a demo for some people and it has shot 3/8th inch groups with 168gr FGMM for them. My GAP is pretty much the same, although I have managed better groups when I am not distracted doing other things. It takes a bit more to shoot them both right 100% of the time, and I honestly hate shooting groups, but I suppose I can give it a try.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

anyone with a gap-10 run into any chambering issues with usa ammo or hsm ammo or other off the shelf ammo ? i have had troubles exp with usa and hsm and have had more than a few not feed all the way cuasing a pretty bad jam?
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see about doing it as I have both..

However I will say I have found my POF to be extremely accurate. Other than the obvious Di vs Piston, both have excellent barrels which is key.

My POF has been used as a demo for some people and it has shot 3/8th inch groups with 168gr FGMM for them. My GAP is pretty much the same, although I have managed better groups when I am not distracted doing other things. It takes a bit more to shoot them both right 100% of the time, and I honestly hate shooting groups, but I suppose I can give it a try. </div></div>


That would be great! I would definitely like to see the comparison between the two rifles.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see about doing it as I have both..

However I will say I have found my POF to be extremely accurate. Other than the obvious Di vs Piston, both have excellent barrels which is key.

My POF has been used as a demo for some people and it has shot 3/8th inch groups with 168gr FGMM for them. My GAP is pretty much the same, although I have managed better groups when I am not distracted doing other things. It takes a bit more to shoot them both right 100% of the time, and I honestly hate shooting groups, but I suppose I can give it a try. </div></div>

Please do! Thank you in advance!
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

That would be a good side by side comparison because even I know LL can shoot/knows his shit and I haven't been around for very long.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone with a gap-10 run into any chambering issues with usa ammo or hsm ammo or other off the shelf ammo ? i have had troubles exp with usa and hsm and have had more than a few not feed all the way cuasing a pretty bad jam? </div></div>

Clean your chamber often with these guns. I ran into a similar problem. I had a failure to fire so I waited around 10 seconds and tried to extract the round and I couldn't get the charging handle back. I opened the lower and gently pryed the bolt back with a screwdriver. I fed another round and it wasn't going fully into battery and needed the forward assist to close the bolt. I extracted without firing and it was stiff coming out.

Looked everything over and it checked out so I cleaned the chamber and a shitload of gunk came out and this was only after around 40 rounds during breakin. I got no such dirt from the bore during shoot-clean-shoot so I looked at the ammo. I was shooting FGMM 7.62x51...NOT their .308. This stuff was filthy and the cases felt slightly sticky in my hand as if the cases weren't cleaned after/during manufacture like the .308 FGMM is delivered.

Once I figured this out I cleaned the chamber after every 20 rounds or so and the problem didn't repeat itself. At each cleaning I got a bunch of junk out of the chamber but very little out of the bore. Maybe Frank or one of the GAP guys will chime in here but I have a hunch that these chambers are cut a bit tighter than your average off-the-shelf AR10s in order to achieve this kind of accuracy, and they're a bit sensitive to dirty cases.

I shot 168 FGMMs (the nice shiny clean ones) and had no such problem. Another thing I'd look at is your PMAG. The one I received from GAP had a sticky follower that would get jammed. Its not worth the effort to send it back since it likely just needs a lube and maybe clean up some of the edges on the follower.

I'm heading out this weekend for some 600-800 yard work so I decided to clean a few of these cases to avoid any issues and I was SHOCKED at the amount of garbage that was on them. I would avoid FGMM 7.62x51 like the plague unless you want to pre-clean your ammo.

From what I've seen USA ammo cases are not the cleanest either so it may be the problem. I've ordered HSM .338 LM before and the cases were clean BUT the extraction groove was not the same as a Lapua case and they would drop off the bolt face during extraction so I haven't use it again since.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I agree with battleaxe here on the tight chambers. Mine was extremely hard to extract a loaded round after about 15 rounds because of the tightness of the chamber. I had to actually go ahead and shoot the round because I could not get enough ass on it to eject it. The ammo was FGGM 168 grn factory ammo too. Love the gun, and man is this thing able to shoot if I am on my game.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

the problems i have seen were on a clean gun right out of the case o rounds throught it. this happens all the time with usa ammo or hsm and a few others then still clean i can put a fgmm or a hornady match or reloads and it feeds perfect, i dont think its a clean/dirty issue. maybee an issue with the ammo manufacturer or the gun . i recently recieved a private message from someone telling me there was a reamer problem with the first run of these guns that cuases this problem but i would have expected the owner to get a email or call from gap if this was true as i would expect them to contact the owners if there was such a problem?
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the problems i have seen were on a clean gun right out of the case o rounds throught it. this happens all the time with usa ammo or hsm and a few others then still clean i can put a fgmm or a hornady match or reloads and it feeds perfect, i dont think its a clean/dirty issue. maybee an issue with the ammo manufacturer or the gun . I recently recieved a private message from someone telling me there was a reamer problem with the first run of these guns that cuases this problem but i would have expected the owner to get a email or call from GAP if this was true as I would expect them to contact the owners if there was such a problem?</div></div>


There was a slight reamer problem, The chamber is safe and for the lack of better words self correcting. The Freebore on this reamer was cut to .3079 and should have been .3085 this is the Diameter of the freebore and not the length. The Length and Angle are correct at .085 FB 1 Deg 30. Once the rifle has been fired a hundred times or so its already opened to over bullet diameter and the grip on the bullet is gone.

We dont know which rifles used this reamer as there were 3 reamers of the same design being used and only one of the three was incorrect, so I cannot send out notices. The guys that notice the problem have called and we have fixed them as we are notified. Most have never noticed and have already shot the rifles enough to self correct the issue. They actully shoot awsome with this chamber.

This Free Bore Dimention is what is common in Palma and F class Rifles and is not dangerous just a bit of a pain in a Semi auto.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Wow!

Im more than impressed with the honesty of this manufacturer. Most manuf's remain quiet and have "never seen that before".

Thanks for letting us know and keeping us informed.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the problems i have seen were on a clean gun right out of the case o rounds throught it. this happens all the time with usa ammo or hsm and a few others then still clean i can put a fgmm or a hornady match or reloads and it feeds perfect, i dont think its a clean/dirty issue. maybee an issue with the ammo manufacturer or the gun . I recently recieved a private message from someone telling me there was a reamer problem with the first run of these guns that cuases this problem but i would have expected the owner to get a email or call from GAP if this was true as I would expect them to contact the owners if there was such a problem?</div></div>


There was a slight reamer problem, The chamber is safe and for the lack of better words self correcting. The Freebore on this reamer was cut to .3079 and should have been .3085 this is the Diameter of the freebore and not the length. The Length and Angle are correct at .085 FB 1 Deg 30. Once the rifle has been fired a hundred times or so its already opened to over bullet diameter and the grip on the bullet is gone.

We dont know which rifles used this reamer as there were 3 reamers of the same design being used and only one of the three was incorrect, so I cannot send out notices. The guys that notice the problem have called and we have fixed them as we are notified. Most have never noticed and have already shot the rifles enough to self correct the issue. They actully shoot awsome with this chamber.

This Free Bore Dimention is what is common in Palma and F class Rifles and is not dangerous just a bit of a pain in a Semi auto. </div></div>
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The chamber is safe and for the lack of better words self correcting. </div></div>

No complaints here and I figured as much. Personally I like a tight hole cause its so much fun to loosen it up with my big shiny bullet
grin.gif


Good info.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I would add for the owners out there that may experience this to be sure to add chamber cleaning every 5-10 rounds to your breakin process then just swab your chamber every 10-25 rounds afterwards to minimize the risk of locking a round up til the chamber wears in.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Battle Axe...

I'm really looking forward to a link up and launching some rounds down range... Great information in this thread guys. Especially for me, since I am in the market for a GAP-10.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

george,, i will contact you guys directly about this as the said rifle has over 400 rounds throught it and still this problem but like i said it could be something with ammo maybee i can just bring the rifle in and have you look at it im st.louis so its not that far.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Battle Axe...

I'm really looking forward to a link up and launching some rounds down range... Great information in this thread guys. Especially for me, since I am in the market for a GAP-10. </div></div>
Any time bro.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Can you specify the chamber/reamer to use at order time? Or is it one size fits all for the GAP-10? Not sure how I feel about a tight match chamber for this platform...

-pd
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow!

Im more than impressed with the honesty of this manufacturer. Most manuf's remain quiet and have "never seen that before".

Thanks for letting us know and keeping us informed.</div></div>
^^^

I don't know why more companies don't do this.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most manuf's remain quiet and have "never seen that before". </div></div>
We've all seen that on more than one occasion. Hell some will even try to discredit you at the slightest mention of a problem.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag </div></div>

+1

I wish I had known about the GAP 10 before I bought my POF P308. I have had nothing but problems out of my POF. I'm sending it back for a second time.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag </div></div>

+1

I wish I had known about the GAP 10 before I bought my POF P308. I have had nothing but problems out of my POF. I'm sending it back for a second time. </div></div>

Are they taking care of you?
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AutoXer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag </div></div>

+1

I wish I had known about the GAP 10 before I bought my POF P308. I have had nothing but problems out of my POF. I'm sending it back for a second time. </div></div>

Are they taking care of you? </div></div> For the most part yes. But it was like murder trying to get the reimbursement check for the shipping the first time! It's just frustrating too have problems with a $3100 rifle.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">george,, i will contact you guys directly about this as the said rifle has over 400 rounds throught it and still this problem but like i said it could be something with ammo maybee i can just bring the rifle in and have you look at it im st.louis so its not that far.</div></div>

Stop by anytime, or just send the upper, Its a 1 Minute fix.

George
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part yes. But it was like murder trying to get the reimbursement check for the shipping the first time! It's just frustrating too have problems with a $3100 rifle. </div></div>

What kind of rifle did you get for $3100 and where did you get it? That's a headache, I hope you don't have anymore issues.
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AutoXer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part yes. But it was like murder trying to get the reimbursement check for the shipping the first time! It's just frustrating too have problems with a $3100 rifle. </div></div>

What kind of rifle did you get for $3100 and where did you get it? That's a headache, I hope you don't have anymore issues. </div></div>

I picked the actual rifle up for $2400 but including GG&G heavy duty bipod, Troy Sights and, PRS it's $3100 total.

This is the thread with the initial problem we can carry on this conversation Here.

Sorry for the hijack
shocked.gif
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

Anybody hear if <span style="color: #CC0000">Lowlight</span> started his side by side comparison of these two yet?
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag </div></div>

+1

I wish I had known about the GAP 10 before I bought my POF P308. I have had nothing but problems out of my POF. I'm sending it back for a second time. </div></div>

You and me both, I wonder if I can send it to GA and turn it into a GAP-10 Gas Gun?
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aojones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag </div></div>

+1

I wish I had known about the GAP 10 before I bought my POF P308. I have had nothing but problems out of my POF. I'm sending it back for a second time. </div></div>

You and me both, I wonder if I can send it to GA and turn it into a GAP-10 Gas Gun? </div></div>

HA HA! I had just thought about that the other day!
 
Re: GAP 10 v POF 308

I have a new POF 308 with about 60-80 rounds down the tube and not a single hiccup, and shoots like a house on fire.... I am anxious as well to see Lowlights review.