George Floyd independent Autopsy released

Blue Sky Country

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Step 2. ARREST all ANTIFA/DSA trash and charge them under terrorism clauses.

Step 3. Identify all of this week's troublemakers and make them compensate for all the damage they had caused.

Step 4. Charge Derek Chauvin and his accomplices accordingly. Throw the fucking book at them.

Step 5. Enjoy concrete floors, green walls, and fluorescent lights for the rest of your life Chauvin...
 

Jgunner

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His family releases? Independent? There’s a 50/50 shot that it’s bullshit, but i dgaf. Nobody Is going to believe either side. Rioting will continue until something is done about it. Its just civil disobedience, rioting and looting for the sake of rioting and looting.
 

Penguins

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His family releases? Independent? There’s a 50/50 shot that it’s bullshit, but i dgaf. Nobody Is going to believe either side. Rioting will continue until something is done about it. Its just civil disobedience, rioting and looting for the sake of rioting and looting.
They are rioting because democrats has successfully brainwashed them that the President is incompetent, a little bit of strong hand it needed here. stealing from others is bad but doing it openly with no fear is terrible.
 

FishinGuns

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They do it because the consequences are too soft. Nobody is afraid of jail, prison, real community service, not being employable for the rest of their life with no easy to obtain “assistance.” Being beat within an inch of their life from the person they violated. Being killed by the person they threaten harm to. Zero fear of repercussion.

There’s nothing to be afraid of anymore in regard to breaking the law in a world of political correctness and socialism/communism.

Make Consequences Great Again
 

sirhrmechanic

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It does not matter what he died of. He died in custody at a time when he was secured... and the officers should have IMMEDIATELY shifted into recussitation, putting him in a better position to breathe, applying an AED, whatever. Might not save a life. But as soon as the person's ability to resist is neutralized, then it is the officer's responsibility to TRY and save their life. Even if it can't be saved. You don't put a bullet in someone and walk over and go "nice shot." You run over and try and save their life, even knowing that the coroner is going to say "He was dead the moment he was shot." A citizen/human unable to resist is now a ward of me, the officer. And I am responsible for their life until that life is deemed as ended due to the objectively reasonable force needed to subdue them.

We trained and from the academy through annual certs... that even if you shoot a perp in the head... as soon as he is down and not resisting, you start clearing airway, dealing with ABC resuscitation and making sure you do everything you can to keep them alive until Paramedics show up.

The moment a suspect/perp/custody-case is under control, he is the responsibility of the officers. His life is in their hands. In this case, the officers totally ignored that. And I can't believe that the training was so different in Minnesota than in New England or SC where I did my trainings.

I don't care what he died of. He was 99.999 percent not likely to have died because he was walking down the street and suddenly just collapsed and died. So the interaction with the officers hastened or caused whatever killed him. And they made no effort after he was subdued to take responsibility for saving his life. There was no effort on the part of the other officers to show that they were still supporting the restraining officer. And he made no effort to assist a suspect after resistance had stopped and put the cuffs on.

I'll sit back in my fire-retardant boxers now for the hate posts to drop my way. But fact is... these guys neglected their training. Or the state's training was sub-par. And regardless of cause of death... I don't care if it was asphyxia or Infarction or excited delerium or Covid-19. The officers there should have transitioned into saving a life the moment the individual was no longer a threat.

SIrhr
 
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FS1

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So the med examiner lied? He was hired by and controlled by Dems. The police were hired by and controlled by Dems, they lied too. So what ever happened to the buck stops with leadership. If they are all liars why keep electing Dems? Maybe they don't keep electing them. Maybe the Dems just count the votes. Or maybe the people are just stupid and are getting the Govt they deserve.

Either way, once hooked up Floyd was not a threat. So whichever ME was right, the cops are wrong. Based upon the evidence at hand anyway. The smoke and mirrors make this whole thing stink. JMHO
 

sirhrmechanic

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So the med examiner lied? He was hired by and controlled by Dems. The police were hired by and controlled by Dems, they lied too. So what ever happened to the buck stops with leadership. If they are all liars why keep electing Dems? Maybe they don't keep electing them. Maybe the Dems just count the votes. Or maybe the people are just stupid and are getting the Govt they deserve.

Either way, once hooked up Floyd was not a threat. So whichever ME was right, the cops are wrong. Based upon the evidence at hand anyway. The smoke and mirrors make this whole thing stink. JMHO
In other words... it's not about Floyd. It's about a chance to attack America and continue the "Are you better off than you were four years ago?" election question... that the far left think they can win by burning America to the ground.

Sad... but there you go. Just like Covid was not about a virus it was about an election... this is about creating civil unrest and using Mr. Floyd and his memory as a pawn to destroy a President.

Sadly...

Sirhr
 

Jgunner

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They are rioting because democrats has successfully brainwashed them that the President is incompetent, a little bit of strong hand it needed here. stealing from others is bad but doing it openly with no fear is terrible.
Agreed.
 

spartan67

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It does not matter what he died of. He died in custody at a time when he was secured... and the officers should have IMMEDIATELY shifted into recussitation, putting him in a better position to breathe, applying an AED, whatever. Might not save a life. But as soon as the person's ability to resist is neutralized, then it is the officer's responsibility to TRY and save their life. Even if it can't be saved. You don't put a bullet in someone and walk over and go "nice shot." You run over and try and save their life, even known that the coroner is going to say "He was dead the moment he was shot." A citizen/human unable to resist is now a ward of me, the officer. And I am responsible for their life until that life is deemed as ended due to the objectively reasonable force needed to subdue them.

We trained and from the academy through annual certs... that if you shoot a perp in the head... as soon as he is down and not resisting, you start clearing airway, dealing with ABC resuscitation and making sure you do everything you can to keep them alive until Paramedics show up.

The moment a suspect/perp/custody-case is under control, he is the responsibility of the officers. His life is in their hands. In this case, the officers totally ignored that. And I can't believe that the training was so different in Minnesota than in New England or SC where I did my trainings.

I don't care what he died of. He was 99.999 percent not likely to have died because he was walking down the street and suddenly just collapsed and died. So the interaction with the officers hastened or caused whatever killed him. And they made no effort after he was subdued to take responsibility for saving his life. There was no effort on the part of the other officers to show that they were still supporting the restraining officer. And he made no effort to assist a suspect after resistance had stopped and put the cuffs on.

I'll sit back in my fire-retardant boxers now for the hate posts to drop my way. But fact is... these guys neglected their training. Or the state's training was sub-par. And regardless of cause of death... I don't care if it was asphyxia or Infarction or excited delerium or Covid-19. The officers there should have transitioned into saving a life the moment the individual was no longer a threat.

SIrhr
We were trained the same way Sir..
 
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FishinGuns

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It does not matter what he died of. He died in custody at a time when he was secured... and the officers should have IMMEDIATELY shifted into recussitation, putting him in a better position to breathe, applying an AED, whatever. Might not save a life. But as soon as the person's ability to resist is neutralized, then it is the officer's responsibility to TRY and save their life. Even if it can't be saved. You don't put a bullet in someone and walk over and go "nice shot." You run over and try and save their life, even known that the coroner is going to say "He was dead the moment he was shot." A citizen/human unable to resist is now a ward of me, the officer. And I am responsible for their life until that life is deemed as ended due to the objectively reasonable force needed to subdue them.

We trained and from the academy through annual certs... that if you shoot a perp in the head... as soon as he is down and not resisting, you start clearing airway, dealing with ABC resuscitation and making sure you do everything you can to keep them alive until Paramedics show up.

The moment a suspect/perp/custody-case is under control, he is the responsibility of the officers. His life is in their hands. In this case, the officers totally ignored that. And I can't believe that the training was so different in Minnesota than in New England or SC where I did my trainings.

I don't care what he died of. He was 99.999 percent not likely to have died because he was walking down the street and suddenly just collapsed and died. So the interaction with the officers hastened or caused whatever killed him. And they made no effort after he was subdued to take responsibility for saving his life. There was no effort on the part of the other officers to show that they were still supporting the restraining officer. And he made no effort to assist a suspect after resistance had stopped and put the cuffs on.

I'll sit back in my fire-retardant boxers now for the hate posts to drop my way. But fact is... these guys neglected their training. Or the state's training was sub-par. And regardless of cause of death... I don't care if it was asphyxia or Infarction or excited delerium or Covid-19. The officers there should have transitioned into saving a life the moment the individual was no longer a threat.

SIrhr
I agree with you 100% with the information we have at the moment.

Lest us not forget the cops in question didn’t just walk up and put their knee on his neck for the hell of it, either... when people resist authority, shits going to hit the fan, generally not in anyone’s favor. I will not condone the length of time Chauvin’s knee was on the back of his neck. I really can’t justify any situation, in my mind, that calls for that. He ain’t going anywhere after he’s cuffed both hands and ankles.

This current mindset of shitheads that think they can resist authority with no repercussion has to stop. Floyd was no martyr in my opinion, but he shouldn’t be dead right now, either. To me it looked like Chauvin was trying to make an example of Floyd and fucked up. Bad. Lose-lose situation all the way around.

Would the opportunity to restrain Floyd have happened had he complied with the officers in the first place? In today’s day & age, with cameras everywhere? I don’t think it would have, but that’s shooting the tires of the bus, here. It doesn’t change what happened.

Floyd didn’t comply with authority to begin with. I don’t think enough attention is being paid to that fact.
 

Penguins

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The systemic killing of black people by the cops isn't really, Cops have to do better at these things, Maybe a better training at subduing perps. A knee to the neck is way too harsh, How did he expect Floyd to breathe ? Now he is dead and it a huge surprise.
 

Maser

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Putting the death of George Floyd aside for a moment, I have to say that the whole "resisting arrest" thing in general is a bullshit charge because it don't matter how cop friendly you may be, your body's natural reaction to when you're spontaneously pulled on is to pull back. That involuntary action alone will net someone a resisting arrest charge.
 

NY700

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I agree with you 100% with the information we have at the moment.

Lest us not forget the cops in question didn’t just walk up and put their knee on his neck for the hell of it, either... when people resist authority, shits going to hit the fan, generally not in anyone’s favor. I will not condone the length of time Chauvin’s knee was on the back of his neck. I really can’t justify any situation, in my mind, that calls for that. He ain’t going anywhere after he’s cuffed both hands and ankles.

This current mindset of shitheads that think they can resist authority with no repercussion has to stop. Floyd was no martyr in my opinion, but he shouldn’t be dead right now, either. To me it looked like Chauvin was trying to make an example of Floyd and fucked up. Bad. Lose-lose situation all the way around.

Would the opportunity to restrain Floyd have happened had he complied with the officers in the first place? In today’s day & age, with cameras everywhere? I don’t think it would have, but that’s shooting the tires of the bus, here. It doesn’t change what happened.

Floyd didn’t comply with authority to begin with. I don’t think enough attention is being paid to that fact.
1. From the videos of scene, 2 different angles I’m not seeing and significant level of resistance.
2. Even if taking Floyd down to the ground was justified I see absolutely nothing on the video to support the need for an officer to sit there for 5 min with his knee into his neck

this was not a man accused of a violent act
He didn’t have a weapon
There was no evidence that he was in some level of rage
There were three other officers right there
No ones life appears to be in immediate risk
And the fact is at this point no one has come forward indicating the contrary in support of the officers actions
 
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NY700

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Putting the death of George Floyd aside for a moment, I have to say that the whole "resisting arrest" thing in general is a bullshit charge because it don't matter how cop friendly you may be, your body's natural reaction to when you're spontaneously pulled on is to pull back. That involuntary action alone will net someone a resisting arrest charge.
I have personally watched police officers yelling at a person who was restrained, cuffed behind the back for resisting. The individual wasn’t fighting them. The suspect who was cuffed was probably about 5’5”. The officer a little taller than me about 6’.

the officer was grabbing the arm of the suspect and pulling upwards. I don’t know about you but I’m not flexible like I used to be. With my arms behind my back I can lift them about 2” before you encounter significant downward resistance.
 

FishinGuns

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1. From the videos of scene, 2 different angles I’m not seeing and significant level of resistance.
2. Even if taking Floyd down to the ground was justified I see absolutely nothing on the video to support the need for an officer to sit there for 5 min with his knee into his neck

this was not a man accused of a violent act
He didn’t have a weapon
There was no evidence that he was in some level of rage
There were three other officers right there
No ones life appears to be in immediate risk
And the fact is at this point no one has come forward indicating the contrary in support of the officers actions
1. He was resisting verbal orders from what I gleaned. That’s pretty much how it starts. Every. Single. Time. these situations have happened. Am I wrong?

Are you saying you think they just walked up to Floyd and immediate knee-to-neck and on the ground? I’d change my tune if that were true and it would absolutely validate your points and others in this thread. I personally don’t think that’s what happened, but I can’t prove that with what the dirty MSM has given us, and of course, official video from the police wouldn’t be made public yet. I’m sure there is a lot more video out there we are not privy to yet.

I listen intently to people with guns when they tell me to do something. I don’t want to be forcibly manhandled, or worse, shot. It has nothing to do with my race, my profession, or whatever I freely do in life. I would expect to be treated with increasing levels of force the more I resist. The ethnicity of the cop wouldn’t have any bearing that on what treatment I expect I would receive for doing so. I have no problem with this, until the level of force exceeds what is necessary to control the situation. That happened here. No doubt. Chauvin fucked up and it’s pretty darn obvious. I personally don’t think Chauvin started the altercation, which is an important point that is being ignored, because I support cops’ right to use APPROPRIATE force when people resist them. It is a tragedy what this situation turned into. It didn’t need to go that far at all. I don’t believe Floyd was being an angel, either. That shit needs to stop just as much as the overuse of force. One generally leads to the other...

2. My second paragraph, you quoted, agrees with your sentiment, and many others in this thread and other threads. You got it👍
 

NY700

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1. He was resisting verbal orders from what I gleaned. That’s pretty much how it starts. Every. Single. Time. these situations have happened. Am I wrong?

Are you saying you think they just walked up to Floyd and immediate knee-to-neck and on the ground? I’d change my tune if that were true and it would absolutely validate your points and others in this thread. I personally don’t think that’s what happened, but I can’t prove that with what the dirty MSM has given us, and of course, official video from the police wouldn’t be made public yet. I’m sure there is a lot more video out there we are not privy to yet.

I listen intently to people with guns when they tell me to do something. I don’t want to be forcibly manhandled, or worse, shot. It has nothing to do with my race, my profession, or whatever I freely do in life. I would expect to be treated with increasing levels of force the more I resist. The ethnicity of the cop wouldn’t have any bearing that on what treatment I expect I would receive for doing so. I have no problem with this, until the level of force exceeds what is necessary to control the situation. That happened here. No doubt. Chauvin fucked up and it’s pretty darn obvious. I personally don’t think Chauvin started the altercation, which is an important point that is being ignored, because I support cops’ right to use APPROPRIATE force when people resist them. It is a tragedy what this situation turned into. It didn’t need to go that far at all. I don’t believe Floyd was being an angel, either. That shit needs to stop just as much as the overuse of force. One generally leads to the other...

2. My second paragraph, you quoted, agrees with your sentiment, and many others in this thread and other threads. You got it👍
Just curious. Would you say this was justified because they resisted verbal commands? Now they were doing nothing wrong. They had every legal right even under the curfew order to be outside their home and watching

 

FishinGuns

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Wouldn’t play... but if what you stated is EXACTLY what happened, then no? Duh?

Is that exactly what happened, though? Do you know for 100% certainty all the details surrounding the situation like you think you know all the details surrounding Floyd’s?

I support cops using appropriate force. Plain and simple. Floyd’s situation was not appropriate at the very moment he was not appropriately restrained and Chauvin continued to hold his knee on his neck. You won’t be changing my mind on that, no matter how many unequal instances you try to bring into the fray. Go join the protests somewhere... please?
 

NY700

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Wouldn’t play... but if what you stated is EXACTLY what happened, then no? Duh?

Is that exactly what happened, though? Do you know for 100% certainty all the details surrounding the situation like you think you know all the details surrounding Floyd’s?

I support cops using appropriate force. Plain and simple. Floyd’s situation was not appropriate at the very moment he was not appropriately restrained and Chauvin continued to hold his knee on his neck. You won’t be changing my mind on that, no matter how many unequal instances you try to bring into the fray. Go join the protests somewhere... please?
Hopefully this link works.
you hear the police ordering people inside there homes. Yes the police issued a command. Should people comply with those commands? There does not appear to be grounds for those commands. The curfew specifies off streets and public places. These people are clearly on private property appears a stoop or patio.
 
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rottenruger

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I thought they had two autopsies, both with that same result.

Doesn't matter if his ticker popped from the stress, the officer still murdered him.

How do we end this bullshoot, it's really wrong and they really don't like it.

Hey, while we're at it, how do we end black on black murdering? THAT's way more serious, even though it's mostly ignored.
 

sirhrmechanic

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I thought they had two autopsies, both with that same result.

Doesn't matter if his ticker popped from the stress, the officer still murdered him.

How do we end this bullshoot, it's really wrong and they really don't like it.

Hey, while we're at it, how do we end black on black murdering? THAT's way more serious, even though it's mostly ignored.
Just to clarify... the officer did not necessarily murder him. The officer failed to attempt to save his life after an interaction that left him in a life-threatening situation.

If they try and charge him with murder in court, technically, he may get off. Which would be a travesty.

He may well have used the technical definition of 'Objectively Reasonable Force' to subdue Floyd. If he can enunciate that, then murder is not something that he can get convicted of.

But once he was in custody, he failed to care for the individual for whom he was now responsible for. For his life, etc. Wanton disregard for saving/assisting a person who was no longer able to fend for themselves because they were in custody. So it was 100 percent the officers responsibiltiy for ensuring his welfare to the best of his ability. His best ability may not have saved Floyd's life. He might have done CPR, applied an AED... given NARCAN... whatever. None of those things may have worked. But officers for something like 20 years have been trained that this is what you MUST do with a restrained suspect because you are responsible for him.

If the suspect was still a threat, then the officer is not yet responsible for his welfare. Then objectively reasonable force can continue to be applied... in order to bring the subject under control. The fact that the other officers were not helping to apply that force and were, basically, completely blase about the situation proves that the suspect was no longer a threat. They were not concerned or assisting in control. Therefore, Mr. Floyd was, in effect, a ward of the officer kneeling on him. Who should have been rendering aid... not kneeling on him.

But he did not murder him. He failed to follow his training. He failed to render aid to an in-custody subject. His fellow officers also failed. Is that Murder? Going to be tough to prove because there are very specific definitions for a conviction of murder.

Now all that said... the two worked at the same nightclub. If prosecution can prove that there was some 'history' or some incentive for the officer to have murdered Floyd. A motive. Animus. Money. Previous altercations. Love triangle. Anything? Then perhaps he DID murder Floyd while trying to make it look like an arrest. IMHO, a stretch. Possible, however.

Right now, murder is going to be hard to prove except maybe 3rd degree. Manslaughter... more likely. It's all going to come down to what the prosection can prove and how aggressive they want to be on charges. If the current AG is leading the prosecution, watch the defense attorneys claim prejudice and maybe even get the officer off entirely. The prosecution needs to tread carefully. And be careful what they reach for.

If you want my personal opinion... this officer needs to see jail time. He wantonly disregarded his training and his partners should have been removing him from the guy's neck and all should have been rendering aid... so they are not out of the firing line. But my opinion matters for nothing. Nor do any opinions here.

Pardon my rambling... Flame away...

Sirhr

P.S. As for the last sentence of how do you end violence within the African American Community... the left doesn't care about that. They are encouraging that... because it keeps that community servile and lets them blame... Republican policies for their situation. Even though the strife in those communites has been the result of 50 years of Great Society patriarchy.
 

FishinGuns

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Hopefully this link works.
you hear the police ordering people inside there homes. Yes the police issued a command. Should people comply with those commands? There does not appear to be grounds for those commands. The curfew specifies off streets and public places. These people are clearly on private property appears a stoop or patio.
Also didn’t play. And I’ll continue to fail to join your sentiments. May as well give it up.
 

NY700

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Also didn’t play. And I’ll continue to fail to join your sentiments. May as well give it up.
curious so you click on the video and then it shows a link to click on to take you to YouTube. And it didn’t load?
 

FatBoy

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So this is some bullshit. Not sure WTF is going on here short of another city (MPD = Memphis??) using strongarm tactics to fuck with citizens. I'd like to know more about this, as if this happens more than a couple times in this neck of the woods they're would eventually be a fire fight. I'd like to believe 1) people won't put up with this shit and 2) they find whomever though this was acceptable and run them out of town on a rail.
 
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rottenruger

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Just to clarify... the officer did not necessarily murder him. The officer failed to attempt to save his life after an interaction that left him in a life-threatening situation.

If they try and charge him with murder in court, technically, he may get off. Which would be a travesty.

He may well have used the technical definition of 'Objectively Reasonable Force' to subdue Floyd. If he can enunciate that, then murder is not something that he can get convicted of.

But once he was in custody, he failed to care for the individual for whom he was now responsible for. For his life, etc. Wanton disregard for saving/assisting a person who was no longer able to fend for themselves because they were in custody. So it was 100 percent the officers responsibiltiy for ensuring his welfare to the best of his ability. His best ability may not have saved Floyd's life. He might have done CPR, applied an AED... given NARCAN... whatever. None of those things may have worked. But officers for something like 20 years have been trained that this is what you MUST do with a restrained suspect because you are responsible for him.

If the suspect was still a threat, then the officer is not yet responsible for his welfare. Then objectively reasonable force can continue to be applied... in order to bring the subject under control. The fact that the other officers were not helping to apply that force and were, basically, completely blase about the situation proves that the suspect was no longer a threat. They were not concerned or assisting in control. Therefore, Mr. Floyd was, in effect, a ward of the officer kneeling on him. Who should have been rendering aid... not kneeling on him.

But he did not murder him. He failed to follow his training. He failed to render aid to an in-custody subject. His fellow officers also failed. Is that Murder? Going to be tough to prove because there are very specific definitions for a conviction of murder.

Now all that said... the two worked at the same nightclub. If prosecution can prove that there was some 'history' or some incentive for the officer to have murdered Floyd. A motive. Animus. Money. Previous altercations. Love triangle. Anything? Then perhaps he DID murder Floyd while trying to make it look like an arrest. IMHO, a stretch. Possible, however.

Right now, murder is going to be hard to prove except maybe 3rd degree. Manslaughter... more likely. It's all going to come down to what the prosection can prove and how aggressive they want to be on charges. If the current AG is leading the prosecution, watch the defense attorneys claim prejudice and maybe even get the officer off entirely. The prosecution needs to tread carefully. And be careful what they reach for.

If you want my personal opinion... this officer needs to see jail time. He wantonly disregarded his training and his partners should have been removing him from the guy's neck and all should have been rendering aid... so they are not out of the firing line. But my opinion matters for nothing. Nor do any opinions here.

Pardon my rambling... Flame away...

Sirhr

P.S. As for the last sentence of how do you end violence within the African American Community... the left doesn't care about that. They are encouraging that... because it keeps that community servile and lets them blame... Republican policies for their situation. Even though the strife in those communites has been the result of 50 years of Great Society patriarchy.

I believe the two autopsies said he was murdered, and I believe the officer on his neck is the one who murdered him, and I believe you will find the trial will bear that out.

Failed to render aid? Good heavens, he was the affliction that caused the need for aid. And his buddies assisted him rather than stopped him.

And his superiors should be charged and tried, too, they failed to cull out an OBVIOUSLY bad apple.

And now, we don't only have to have a murder charge for justice's sake, we have to have it for political sake.

This officer needs to see jail time? Grief. This officer needs about twenty years of jail time, in a cell with BIG Bubba.

Just my honest humble opinion.....it is as you say.....matters nothing.


Now what I would MYSELF like to do is go murder some rioters, looters and shooters, but the LAW does not allow me........

Cheers!
 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
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I believe the two autopsies said he was murdered, and I believe the officer on his neck is the one who murdered him, and I believe you will find the trial will bear that out.

Failed to render aid? Good heavens, he was the affliction that caused the need for aid. And his buddies assisted him rather than stopped him.

And his superiors should be charged and tried, too, they failed to cull out an OBVIOUSLY bad apple.

And now, we don't only have to have a murder charge for justice's sake, we have to have it for political sake.

This officer needs to see jail time? Grief. This officer needs about twenty years of jail time, in a cell with BIG Bubba.

Just my honest humble opinion.....it is as you say.....matters nothing.


Now what I would MYSELF like to do is go murder some rioters, looters and shooters, but the LAW does not allow me........

Cheers!
You are not wrong.

But if the officer can enunciate that he used objectively reasonable force... even if Floyd died of underlying conditions, the officer is not responsible. That is the SCOTUS standard and has been for decades.

The issue is that AFTER using what can be called objectively resasonable force, he failed to follow training and protocol. This lack of post-care is what he can get nailed for, because had he provided care, the death may not have occurred, even with underlying conditions. Police save heart attack victims all the time.

So an officer CAN cause the death of a suspect during while subduing them if he was objectively reasonable in the force applied to subdue. That includes shooting someone or killing them. If the use of that level of force was reasonable in the situation and if the officer can enunciate why it was reasonable. The escalation ladder is a published guideline for how force can be applied. It's not all-encompassing or a standard, but is a guideline.

The officer's failure was not the use of force to subdue the subject... and if he can enunciate in the record why he used that level of force then he is not committing murder. He is using a proven standard of force/escalation to get the subject to comply. And he is not guilty of anything. It is even permissible for an officer to cause a death if the level of force is objectively reasonable force. The case is called Graham Vs. Conner and it is taught from Day One at any police academy. A sworn officer is given the power to take life -- which under the 4th Amendment represent's the ultimate seizure -- but only under circumstances that another reasonable and objective individual would see as necessary.

The officer's failure , therefore, was in NOT rendering aid to someone who was now subdued and in his custody. And that is unacceptable and has been taught as unaccptable and part of the training for 40 years or more. Once someone is in custody, they are a ward of the state (aka the officer who represents the state). And the officer or officers must do everything in his/their power or capability to keep them secure -- in this case alive -- to the best of their abilities. That said, the officer is not a trained trauma surgeon. He may not be an EMT (many are). But should be trained in basic first aid and should have basic equipment in their cruiser. Basic first aid includes ABC.. AIrway, breathing and Circulatory system... aka Basic CPR. Though not all departments subscribe to this, all in my AO do. Even if the officer has NONE of this, we were trained in "Control and restraint" that an individual needs to be moved appropriately into safe positions, secured in a car so they can't be injured in a crash, etc. as soon as they are under control. The officer does not 'have' to save a life. But they have to make the attempt *commensurate with their training" to ensure the individual is safe. Kneeling on a guy is not commensurate with any training I received. Nor any officer I know. Mileage in Minnesota may vary.

Last, if the lawyers and prosecuting attorneys and politicians want to try and push something that they can't get a conviction on... they will lose. In court or on appeal. If they want to go after murder (and I am not ruling that out... I am saying it +may+ be a stretch) then they may well lose on the legal and technical definitions. And that will be a travesty. Because I agree that he should say significant jail time.

But they can't just say it was murder and go all 'Let's get him." Because if they do that, he will walk. The rules are simple, really. But not always widely understood... But you can bet that the officer's lawyers understand ALL the details. And will play every single one of them and if the state screws up even a little with over-reach, they will lose. This should be a slam dunk. But not everyone will like the version of charges that will stick.

Sadly, an entire nation agreed with you. It's sad that what should have been a moment of unity against a bad officer has now turned into looting, fires and debate... Because noone is more disgusted at that officer than other officers. Including dinosaur retirees like me.

Sirhr
 

srtsam

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Does anyone know if floyd was a habitual criminal? Did he have history with the police? was there a toxicology report? did he have anything in his system? The media is very hush on these points.
 

rjacobs

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Mar 10, 2013
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was there a toxicology report? did he have anything in his system?
If the toxicology report that was released from the county coroner isnt bull shit, the dude was HIGH AS A FUCKING KITE FLYING ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER...


On another site a guy says a meth level of 14 is deadly... his was 19. I dont know anything about that stuff, but he has a bunch of stuff in his system...

Again if this is not fake news...
 
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tex68w

Mister Bevilaqua
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Does anyone know if floyd was a habitual criminal? Did he have history with the police? was there a toxicology report? did he have anything in his system? The media is very hush on these points.
He had a record and did some time, main stream media isn't talking about it much, surprised to see this smut rag publishing this but there it is.

 

srtsam

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so, if the report looks to be true, Floyd just wasn't merely trying to pass a bad check to help feed his family during the covid epidemic and got killed by the police just because he was black. I would think that much drugs in his system combined with his depleted health would have to contribute to his demise. Again, the knee on the neck in my opinion was in poor judgement on the officer's part, Floyd was already in custody and down on the ground. but WAS he being compliant with that much drugs in his system. The levels of drugs in Floyd the officer would have no idea about. I have to think that the officer that morning didn't wake up with the intention of going out to kill black people. We say it all the time here on the hide: Play silly games....Win silly prizes. Except in this case a police officer not using good judgement will now pay for Floyd's prize for probably the rest of his life.
 
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madppcs

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I believe the two autopsies said he was murdered, and I believe the officer on his neck is the one who murdered him, and I believe you will find the trial will bear that out.

Failed to render aid? Good heavens, he was the affliction that caused the need for aid. And his buddies assisted him rather than stopped him.

And his superiors should be charged and tried, too, they failed to cull out an OBVIOUSLY bad apple.

And now, we don't only have to have a murder charge for justice's sake, we have to have it for political sake.

This officer needs to see jail time? Grief. This officer needs about twenty years of jail time, in a cell with BIG Bubba.

Just my honest humble opinion.....it is as you say.....matters nothing.


Now what I would MYSELF like to do is go murder some rioters, looters and shooters, but the LAW does not allow me........

Cheers!
Glad someone else feels this way. I think that officer also had a history of incidents thats just as long as the deceased had a rap sheet. If the incident was the exact opposite, where a citizen put their knee on a cops neck and killed him the perp would get the death penalty. I feel the same motivation should be used against cops who break the law.
 

NY700

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Online Training Access
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Who footed the bill for that independent autopsy?

Follow the money...

Note that all four are now up on charges, and the main perp's charges have been upgraded.

Greg
I’m not sure in this case that has much value

although the results differed the final conclusion was the same

if i put you ina forced state with strain significant enough to cause you to have say a heart attack and die

or in that same position to cut of the blood flow resulting in loss of oxygen to the brain and you die

not doenst matter much in regards to the question of the person applying the force.

many it have some bearing on those around as to what they saw what indicators there would be to react. Maybe.

at the heart of this debate it will primarily come down to was there an actual need for the man to be detained as he was.

was it reasonable that he was detained in the position he was for as long as he was.

was there enough information to show that the party was in duress and was the appropriate action taken

matter it was discovered that he was injured/dead were the proper actions taken to try to save him.

he was at one point in the back of the car then taken out. Why? There are reasons to take a suspect back out of the squad car what was this one?

there doesn’t appear to be at this time a justification for that level of force able restraint. We will find out if the officers believed there was.

the toxicology report is some what moot. Either he was on enough drugs that he was visibly not in good form in which case the police have a higher duty to protect the suspect from him self. Or he had some stuff in his system yet he was coherent and responsive and no additional level of due care would have been needed or known to be provided by the police. Either way in a liability aspect you take them like you find them. If I rear end someone in my car and they have a sore back I’m liable for that. If I read end some one with osteoporosis and their back fractures from the same light hit I’m still responsible for that.

police procedure is supposed to account for such unknowns.
 

Tchitcherine

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Attorneys for Floyd's family released the results of an independent autopsy report Monday afternoon
I see above, @rjacobs posted a link to the official County Medical Examiner's autopsy report. That is helpful.

Where is this other report? If someone has a link, please post it up. The foxnews article in the OP didn't link it. Was it actually released, or did the lawyers just make public statements about the report, but are holding back the actual document? Or I just suck at search (not unlikely).
 

Greg Langelius *

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My (missed) point being...

The arrogance of people to immediately, automatically assume that a legally constituted ME Office is compromised; and of course, must be second guessed, is the problem here. That public opinion gets molded in such a way by the media is so commonplace and universally accepted..., nothing wrong here, move along.

Gotta get this done according to a racially polarized point of view. Nothing else could possibly be valid...

Concerned, civic minded attorneys notwithstanding.

This is the kind of reasoning that torches neighborhoods.

Then the slanted media rakes in the advertising revenue, and everytone (who actually counts) is happy as pigs in mud.
 
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