Getting lower Extreme Spread in Velocity?

[Awag1000]

Im working a load with my 300 win mag. I'm using IMR 4350 (this is the only powder I have available right now) with a Nosler 210gr RDF bullet. Im currently using Ruag brass and I've had good results in accuracy at 100 yards. Ive been trying to get my ES down by taking extra time to sort bullets and weigh powder. my scale is a major factor in my endeavor but its a super cheap Fankford Arsenal and it's very inaccurate. Out of a sample of 9 rounds (that actually read with my chronograph) using 67gr of powder I managed these results.
Avg: 2736 fps
SD:6
ES:20

I want to get the SD and ES as low as possible to aid with repeatability with turret adjustments. what scale would you recommend I get for very accurate results. what are some things I can do to help improve the SD and ES?

 

[Steel head]

How far are you shooting? Do you need super low SD’s?
I’m perfectly happy with a SD in that range within 10-15 shot for anything under 2300 yards(that’s as far as I’ve shot so far) and I’m not chasing anything because of it.

Neck turning and annealing can make a big difference.
A V3 setup certainly couldn’t hurt.
Loading in a velocity node I can easily get those results with a Hornandy LNLpowder measure.

 

[Bradv86]

FX 120i scale is incredibly good but pricey.

Are you annealing?

Neck turning / mandrels / different neck tension you could play with.

An SD of 6 is already quite good as I Imagine you already know. Do most rounds fall within a tighter ES while only one or 2 cause it to be higher? Might want to list your exact process for loading and people can narrow in on areas for further improvement.

 

[straightshooter1]

Im working a load with my 300 win mag. I'm using IMR 4350 (this is the only powder I have available right now) with a Nosler 210gr RDF bullet. Im currently using Ruag brass and I've had good results in accuracy at 100 yards. Ive been trying to get my ES down by taking extra time to sort bullets and weigh powder. my scale is a major factor in my endeavor but its a super cheap Fankford Arsenal and it's very inaccurate. Out of a sample of 9 rounds (that actually read with my chronograph) using 67gr of powder I managed these results.
Avg: 2736 fps
SD:6
ES:20

I want to get the SD and ES as low as possible to aid with repeatability with turret adjustments. what scale would you recommend I get for very accurate results. what are some things I can do to help improve the SD and ES?

An A&D FS-120I is one that used by many high end reloaders. But, as mentioned. . . it's pricey as the better and more accurate scales tend to be.

A&D FX-120i Precision Balance, Compact Scale 122 g X 0.001 g, Draft shield, RS232, 5year warranty, New: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

A&D FX-120i Precision Balance, Compact Scale 122 g X 0.001 g, Draft shield, RS232, 5year warranty, New: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

And if money is no object, then a Prometheus is outstanding:


As as improving case prep for lower ES's and SD's . . . Annealing after every firing, making sure you have consistent neck tension (turning neck helps), sorting cases (making sure the outliers are removed, though they can be used for something else like sighters).

 

[Awag1000]

No I am not anealing . my process of loading once fired brass goes as follows:
1 Neck Size/deprime (RCBS 300WM neck sizer)
2 Wet tumble for ~ 2 hour
2.5 wait a day to air dry
3 in the mean time, weigh bullets/ sort with in ~.2gr
4 set my Lee powder throw to a gross charge (~0.5gr under final charge weight)
5 calibrate my powder scale
6 check brass for length and defects
7 once all the brass has been checked I prime using CCI Large Magnum Rifle primers
8 Load powder thrower and trickler
9 throw powder into powder scale pan and trickle to final weight (I normally check the final weight about 10 times per round of ammo)
10 seat bullet and repeat the process from step 9

the info I gave is only from a small sample of ammunition. ultimate goal is to hit a milk jug at 1 mile on the first shot. (super difficult shot in my opinion)
I just want to improve anywhere I can, and my hand-loads are something I can improve on.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Which franklin scale do you have? Do you verify it often? Reason I asking is that I started out doing the same routine you are and it would drift. I ended up with 3 different small inexpensive scales just to triple verify each load. Amazon actually has a really good gem scale for like $20 that has proven to be more accurate than both my lyman and franklin and measures to .02gr.

 

[straightshooter1]

No I am not anealing . my process of loading once fired brass goes as follows:
1 Neck Size/deprime (RCBS 300WM neck sizer)
2 Wet tumble for ~ 2 hour
2.5 wait a day to air dry
3 in the mean time, weigh bullets/ sort with in ~.2gr
4 set my Lee powder throw to a gross charge (~0.5gr under final charge weight)
5 calibrate my powder scale
6 check brass for length and defects
7 once all the brass has been checked I prime using CCI Large Magnum Rifle primers
8 Load powder thrower and trickler
9 throw powder into powder scale pan and trickle to final weight (I normally check the final weight about 10 times per round of ammo)
10 seat bullet and repeat the process from step 9

the info I gave is only from a small sample of ammunition. ultimate goal is to hit a milk jug at 1 mile on the first shot. (super difficult shot in my opinion)
I just want to improve anywhere I can, and my hand-loads are something I can improve on.

Annealing will be a big help in maintaining consistency and keeping your ES's down.
If you're wet tumbling, you'll want to lube the inside of your cases before seating the bullets reduce and get consistent seating resistance.

When you're neck sizing, you'll want a die that will also bump the shoulder back (a die like Forster's Neck Bump Sizing Die). Most re loaders recommend full length sizing instead of neck sizing and though I like neck sizing, I do like to FL size to start with to be sure to align the case bodies with the necks to get good concentricity.

You'll want to trim your cases so that they're all the same length

. . . just some of my thoughts I feel will help you achieve your goal.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you’re getting a consistent ES of 20 (most don’t, they just look at small shot strings.....just like everyone thinks they have a 1/4min rifle), you’ll have to add quite a bit more into your process such as:

Get something like an fx120 or better
Neck turning
Verifying neck tension with pin gauge
Using a arbor press with gauge as a final QC check

If you are actually getting 20es.....what kind of shooting are you doing where 10fps one way or another matters?

 

[Awag1000]

Which franklin scale do you have? Do you verify it often? Reason I asking is that I started out doing the same routine you are and it would drift. I ended up with 3 different small inexpensive scales just to triple verify each load. Amazon actually has a really good gem scale for like $20 that has proven to be more accurate than both my lyman and franklin and measures to .02gr.

you wouldn't happen to have a link for that scale would you?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

you wouldn't happen to have a link for that scale would you?

Just an FYI, I have since upgraded to a RCBS chargemaster and Hornady Auto throw simply for speed because I load on a progressive and do more than 100 at a time.

 

[Rocketmandb]

A better scale will help with a host of things, but trying to chase SDs below 6 on a 300 WM could be the subject of a case study on diminishing returns. I've gotten my 300 PRC down to the 5-6 range by annealing, getting a good scale, etc., but that's as far as I go.

 

[straightshooter1]

A better scale will help with a host of things, but trying to chase SDs below 6 on a 300 WM could be the subject of a case study on diminishing returns. I've gotten my 300 PRC down to the 5-6 range by annealing, getting a good scale, etc., but that's as far as I go.

I soooo agree about SD on a 300 WM. A 6 SD and 20 ES is pretty darn good, though might be able to get the ES's into the teen consistently. But as you say, there's a point of diminishing returns.

Here's a couple articles that the OP should probably take a good look at:

How Much Does SD Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

How Much Does Cartridge Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

Addendum: Here's more info about other cartridges for perspective . . .

6BRA, 6BRX & 6BR Load Data – What The Pros Use

A few months ago I asked 173 of the top-ranked precision rifle shooters in the country about the lo...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Rocketmandb]

I soooo agree about SD on a 300 WM. A 6 SD and 20 ES is pretty darn good, though might be able to get the ES's into the teen consistently. But as you say, there's a point of diminishing returns.

Here's a couple articles that the OP should probably take a good look at:

How Much Does SD Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

How Much Does Cartridge Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

I'm glad you quoted these two articles. I was going to link to the first one, but got distracted, then lazy

 

[Awag1000]

I soooo agree about SD on a 300 WM. A 6 SD and 20 ES is pretty darn good, though might be able to get the ES's into the teen consistently. But as you say, there's a point of diminishing returns.

Here's a couple articles that the OP should probably take a good look at:

How Much Does SD Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

How Much Does Cartridge Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

Addendum: Here's more info about other cartridges for perspective . . .

View attachment 7337011

6BRA, 6BRX & 6BR Load Data – What The Pros Use

A few months ago I asked 173 of the top-ranked precision rifle shooters in the country about the lo...

precisionrifleblog.com

Thank you for these links. I was comparing data from the 6.5 crowd and saw how low their SD is and wanted to mirror that in the 300WM.

 

[308Gunner]

Hitting a milk jug at a mile on the first shot is going to be tough, can you do it absolutely the question is can you do it consistently. At that range you had better be able to read wind to 1 mph, I am not trying to discourage you aim small miss small.

 

[47guy]

ultimate goal is to hit a milk jug at 1 mile on the first shot.

if you have a 6SD and 20ES id suggest you go practice more and worry less about numbers because those are outstanding numbers in a 300WM especially with the powder and bullet combo your using....just for numbers a 20fps ES at 1760yds is only 3/10s elevation in my BRA so id imagine yours will be close to the same.
as you said a first round impact on a 8"milk jug at 1 mile will be a tough shot and more than your ES and SDs the environmental's are going to be more the determine factor...perfect one day and completely different the next...i like your "ultimate goal" but a more realistic goal would be a 2nd or 3rd round impact.