Giraud trimmer issues

Ape_Factory

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Having a hell of a time with my Giraud trimmer. I had a bearing failure on the trimmer side and sent it back in. I'd trimmed less than 1,000 cases total at that point, 308, 5.56 and 300 blackout. I read the instructions, including how to clean it, and generally took very good care of it.

The bearing apparently had fine shavings in it which caused it to finally seize up. I never used compressed air and generally dumped out shavings and used a small brush to sweep out any excess. I was pretty careful.

Shortly after getting it back I began trimming again and followed instructions on a note they had included, asking me to be a bit more aggressive when inserting the case to trim and to just dump shavings. No need to get it completely clean. This would create larger brass shavings which would have a much harder time making their way into the bearing. I did just that and even worked up a special tool to hold the case as I was inserting it to be trimmed. Things overall were much smoother using this method but the bearing once again, began to make noise. Wasn't as frequent so I pressed on.

Today I did about 100 5.56 cases and moved on to some 300 blackout. Once again ran into issues, this time the cogged wheel on the trimmer side came loose on the shaft and it bogged while trimming a case. This damaged the cutter. The shaft on the trimmer side does not have a flat like it does on the motor side. The included grub screw which secures the cog to the shaft did not have enough purchase to keep the cog secured to the shaft and it also stripped the threads in the plastic cog. So the unit would end up bogging. On top of that, I'm getting a slight wobble to the cutter head which is probably being caused by the bearing going out yet again.

I do trim in a vertical position so the shavings fall down instead of back in the case. It's designed to be operated this way.

Anyone else have a lot of reliability issues with the Giraud? I'm likely purchasing a Dillon here soon and may just move to their trimmer. When the Giraud works, it's great but given how little I've used it at this point, I don't have much faith in its durability long-term.

I don't know if this is bad luck or that I'm just doing it wrong. Initially, I didn't jam the case in there and introduced it quite slowly. After the bearing rebuild, I was a bit more forceful and using my little tool to hold the case, it eliminated any extra movement from hand holding a case if that makes sense. It'd trim very smoothly with less noise/vibration. Seemed good. But with 300 Blackout, cut cases made out of LC 5.56, it just doesn't seem capable of processing a lot of brass without something going wrong.
 

Baron23

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    Having a hell of a time with my Giraud trimmer. I had a bearing failure on the trimmer side and sent it back in. I'd trimmed less than 1,000 cases total at that point, 308, 5.56 and 300 blackout. I read the instructions, including how to clean it, and generally took very good care of it.

    The bearing apparently had fine shavings in it which caused it to finally seize up. I never used compressed air and generally dumped out shavings and used a small brush to sweep out any excess. I was pretty careful.

    Shortly after getting it back I began trimming again and followed instructions on a note they had included, asking me to be a bit more aggressive when inserting the case to trim and to just dump shavings. No need to get it completely clean. This would create larger brass shavings which would have a much harder time making their way into the bearing. I did just that and even worked up a special tool to hold the case as I was inserting it to be trimmed. Things overall were much smoother using this method but the bearing once again, began to make noise. Wasn't as frequent so I pressed on.

    Today I did about 100 5.56 cases and moved on to some 300 blackout. Once again ran into issues, this time the cogged wheel on the trimmer side came loose on the shaft and it bogged while trimming a case. This damaged the cutter. The shaft on the trimmer side does not have a flat like it does on the motor side. The included grub screw which secures the cog to the shaft did not have enough purchase to keep the cog secured to the shaft and it also stripped the threads in the plastic cog. So the unit would end up bogging. On top of that, I'm getting a slight wobble to the cutter head which is probably being caused by the bearing going out yet again.

    I do trim in a vertical position so the shavings fall down instead of back in the case. It's designed to be operated this way.

    Anyone else have a lot of reliability issues with the Giraud? I'm likely purchasing a Dillon here soon and may just move to their trimmer. When the Giraud works, it's great but given how little I've used it at this point, I don't have much faith in its durability long-term.

    I don't know if this is bad luck or that I'm just doing it wrong. Initially, I didn't jam the case in there and introduced it quite slowly. After the bearing rebuild, I was a bit more forceful and using my little tool to hold the case, it eliminated any extra movement from hand holding a case if that makes sense. It'd trim very smoothly with less noise/vibration. Seemed good. But with 300 Blackout, cut cases made out of LC 5.56, it just doesn't seem capable of processing a lot of brass without something going wrong.
    Is your motor have a black case (sealed bearing) or grey motor ( need to oil the bearing) that Doug Giraud went back to recently after 20 years of the sealed bearing unit due to a lousy $15 price increase from his supplier….which he has NOT reflected on his site or documents…..which I did not find out about until I received my unit.

    So Giraud is def off my Xmas card list….and I’m not particularly interested in doing biz w him again as I feel he fucked me and his other recent customers for a lousy $15…which I would have gladly given him.

    I have had no issues w the unit otherwise.
     
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    KZP

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    Sounds like you may have a lemon. I estimate around 5k trimmings on mine without issues so far.

    Could also be the first damaged bearing caused issues elsewhere that are now manifesting?
     

    secondofangle2

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    You motor, grey case (sealed bearing) or black motor ( need to oil the bearing) that Doug Giraud went back to recently after 20 years of the sealed bearing unit due to a lousy $15 price increase from his supplier….which he has NOT reflected on his site or documents…..which I did not find out about until I received my unit.

    So Giraud is def off my Xmas card list….and I’m not particularly interested in doing biz w him again as I feel he fucked me and his other recent customers for a lousy $15…which I would have gladly given him.

    I have had no issues w the unit otherwise.
    I have a 13 year old Max-50 (no longer made) with Grey motor and it works great but

    I called recently (to ask about a completely new induction annealer mentioned on the website) and DG was not very pleasant. He didn’t tell me to F off but that was the attitude of his gruff response. I felt like I should have apologized for calling before I hung up. But I didnt
     

    Feniks Technologies

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    You motor, grey case (sealed bearing) or black motor ( need to oil the bearing) that Doug Giraud went back to recently after 20 years of the sealed bearing unit due to a lousy $15 price increase from his supplier….which he has NOT reflected on his site or documents…..which I did not find out about until I received my unit.

    So Giraud is def off my Xmas card list….and I’m not particularly interested in doing biz w him again as I feel he fucked me and his other recent customers for a lousy $15…which I would have gladly given him.

    I have had no issues w the unit otherwise.

    Well, that’s interesting. I have a new Giraud I just received a couple weeks ago that’s still in the box.

    Which color motor requires oil? And is it reflected in the instructions and such?
     

    siscoe308

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    My Giraud is 5-6 years old & it has a black motor. I don’t recall any instructions saying to oil the bearing? Oops.

    That being said, I love my trimmer. Easy peasy & quick, I bought the Whidden click ring & a box of nylon gloves. Changed my trimming life!
     
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    Baron23

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    Well, that’s interesting. I have a new Giraud I just received a couple weeks ago that’s still in the box.

    Which color motor requires oil? And is it reflected in the instructions and such?
    Well, first in my post I got it backwards....damn that scotch whiskey! haha

    The motor with the grey case is the non-sealed bearing type and must be oiled occasionally. The black motor is the newer sealed bearing unit.

    No, documentation is the same with no update about this.

    My trimmer works wonderfully and I still like the design a lot. I'm happy with its function and performance.

    I'm just not happy with Doug Giraud. I bought the unit via Creedmoor Sports, who I like a lot. Its drop shipped from Giraud and is the same price as calling him up and ordering over the phone. Putting a couple of drops of oil in a slot for the bearings once in while is no big deal. It was him going back to an unsealed motor for a lousy $15 (which I would have gladly paid), not having anything on his site/doc about it, and then when I reached out to him via Creedmoor the answer back was kind along the lines of "tough, that's what I'm shipping now". So, I feel that he had a bit of an attitude and now so do I.

    Clip from current doc on his site

    1643646816862.png


    My Giraud is 5-6 years old & it has a black motor. I don’t recall any instructions saying to oil the bearing? Oops.
    Please see above....I had it backwards initially, black motor is sealed...grey motor case is older unsealed that he went back to.
     
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    Baron23

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    @Feniks Technologies @siscoe308

    The unit does work well for me but my one...eh, complaint?...is the vibration up thru your fingers when holding the case against the spring pressure to trim. I was using tactile gloves which helped but was no optimum and I really was looking for some sort of collet system like the Henderson that I could use as a case holder when trimming.

    I found this at K&M and it works wonderfully and should be an accessory every Giraud user should consider.

    About a 1/16th to 1/8th turn of the ring locks/unlocks the case in the holder so its quick, easy, and functions very much like the Lee collet in the Henderson. (NOTE: in this pic, the motor looks black but that's an artifact of the picture and its actually dark grey...and you can see the slot in the side of the casing for a bit of oil)

    1643647332962.jpeg


    1643647577760.jpeg


    Link for the K&M "power adapter"...if you scroll down you will find the ring, shell holder, and handle to go with it. Total cost was about $65 and works perfectly. Your hands will thank you.


    Cheers
     

    6.5SH

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    The unit does work well for me but my one...eh, complaint?...is the vibration up thru your fingers when holding the case against the spring pressure to trim. I was using tactile gloves which helped but was no optimum and I really was looking for some sort of collet system like the Henderson that I could use as a case holder when trimming.

    I found this at K&M and it works wonderfully and should be an accessory every Giraud user should consider.

    About a 1/16th to 1/8th turn of the ring locks/unlocks the case in the holder so its quick, easy, and functions very much like the Lee collet in the Henderson. (NOTE: in this pic, the motor looks black but that's an artifact of the picture and its actually dark grey...and you can see the slot in the side of the casing for a bit of oil)

    View attachment 7797931

    View attachment 7797933

    Link for the K&M "power adapter"...if you scroll down you will find the ring, shell holder, and handle to go with it. Total cost was about $65 and works perfectly. Your hands will thank you.


    Cheers
    This K&M setup is a hand saver when used with the WFT trimmers and any of the powered case prep centers (RCBS, FA etc.)
     
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    secondofangle2

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    Does the Henderson chamfer in/out case mouth or is that another operation you must perform?

    The “bigger” issue for me is the lack of support for calibers >.338 w Henderson
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    Does the Henderson chamfer in/out case mouth or is that another operation you must perform?

    The “bigger” issue for me is the lack of support for calibers >.338 w Henderson
    Henderson does everything. Chamfers in and out as well as deburrs. Once you try one you will never want to use anything again.

    Rumor there is a neck turning adapter in development as well.
     

    Ape_Factory

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    So my motor is a very, very dark gray. I was not told to oil the motor at all but that side of the Giraud seems fine. It's the cutter side that's been nothing but problems. When it works, it works well. Love that K&M, hand never seen it before but worked up something similar that doesn't rely on shell holders and accommodates everything I reload.

    But anyway...I'm wondering if the shaft on the cutter, the portion that connects to the cogged wheel, is supposed to have a flat on it like the shaft on the motor side. Anyway, about to call and send it back yet again.

    I'll let you know the outcome. I was able to do a bunch of .308 and 5.56 fairly quickly and it was great. Always seems to go down for the count when I process 300 blackout but I also always save that for last.
     
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    Baron23

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    I was not told to oil the motor at all
    Not told? Did Giraud actually tell you anything at all about the motor?
    I refer you again to the manual and my recounting of Creedmoor Sports engaging with Doug Giraud on the motor and need for oiling so I'm making this crap up. Creedmoor was definitely told by Giraud that he went back to a non-sealed motor.

    "I heard back from Doug and he says to apply 1 to 2 drops in the 2 oil slots of the motor every 10,000 to 20,000 trimmed cases. He says other than that, there’s no difference. It sounds like he has made the switch to this kind of motor and has no plans on changing back to the sealed version."


    Note, in the manual he says every 1-2 thousand cases but when pressed by Creedmoor on WTF he would even consider going back to a non-sealed motor (like on my grandmother's sewing machine FFS) he came out with the 10k-20k interval and we never got him to explain the difference between that and what's in his manual. IMO, when he said 10k-20k he was just trying to minimize the apparent impact of his penny wise/pound foolish decision and I don't trust it (or really him) a bit. I'm going with the 1-2k metric, personally.

    And mine is not light grey either...its dark grey and definitely not black....and Giraud confirmed that this model needs oiling.

    You do have the slit in the case at the "3 o'clock position" for oiling on your motor, right? Its shown in my pic with the K&M tool in the post above.

    Do as you like, but if bought at all recently then it has a motor whose bearing needs oiling.

    1643660985932.png
     

    Ape_Factory

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    I honestly don't remember reading anything in the manual about oiling the motor, I'll have to go back and look. But again, my issue isn't with the motor side, it's with the cutter side. I likely have maybe a thousand trimmed cases at this point so it's not like it's had a ton of use.

    Here's my Giraud.


    Slot for oil


    The cogged wheel at the back spins freely on the shaft (The Giraud is upside down in this photo) and that little grub screw on the wheel's shaft, where it attaches to the metal shaft, is now stripped. The metal shaft is round with no flats so the grub screw alone likely isn't enough to secure it to the wheel and there's nothing but that grub screw to lock it in place. It's not keyed in anywhere else. BUT, it was completely bogging down. Wheel/shaft would stop spinning which, given the size of the motor, shouldn't be happening.
     

    Baron23

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    I honestly don't remember reading anything in the manual about oiling the motor, I'll have to go back and look. But again, my issue isn't with the motor side, it's with the cutter side. I likely have maybe a thousand trimmed cases at this point so it's not like it's had a ton of use.

    Here's my Giraud.


    Slot for oil


    The cogged wheel at the back spins freely on the shaft (The Giraud is upside down in this photo) and that little grub screw on the wheel's shaft, where it attaches to the metal shaft, is now stripped. The metal shaft is round with no flats so the grub screw alone likely isn't enough to secure it to the wheel and there's nothing but that grub screw to lock it in place. It's not keyed in anywhere else. BUT, it was completely bogging down. Wheel/shaft would stop spinning which, given the size of the motor, shouldn't be happening.
    Toward the back of the manual under Tips and Tricks. Strange place to put it but it’s there in the online manual as well as hard copy.

    And that is def motor to oil occasionally.

    I have not had any issues w the cutter side.
     

    bax

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    I've had mine for about 15 years. It has trimmed tens of thousands of cases - 308, 300 win mag, 30-06, and 223 - without a single issue. The belt is tight, each pully is tight on its shaft, I am still on the first cutting surface on the carbide cutter. I have the black motor. I use mine in the vertical orientation. It works every time and give me plus or minus 0.001 case length. I trim only clean cases. I insert them briskly but I don't jam them in.

    I have noticed the vibration issue, I'm thinking about the K&M solution I don't like the price and I think loading and unloading it might slow me down.
     
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    Baron23

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    I don't like the price and I think loading and unloading it might slow me down.
    Well, we each make our own decisions about what is economical and what is over priced.

    As for slowing down, I find it to be very quick and easy and much like the Lee collet is used on the Henderson. In any case, I didn't really care as my only concern was eliminating my numbness in my fingers.

    Cheers
     

    Choid

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    I'm wondering if maybe something happened with his wife, because when mine was new, she handled all of the CS. Now no emails are returned, so I go through Creedmoor. I hope I am wrong.
     

    secondofangle2

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    14018ABC-C461-454C-98BE-91156FD84E22.jpeg
    Here’s my Giraud with a 308 case how much oil does this motor need LOL
     

    427Cobra

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    mine is almost a decade old, never a hiccup of any sort, I have worn out 2 308 barrels, a 260rem barrel, 6.5 creed barrel, and add another 200k 556 cases, I have done zero MX to mine, I would like to see some detailed pics of the bearing failure, or any other fubar parts
     

    Baron23

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    View attachment 7798499Here’s my Giraud with a 308 case how much oil does this motor need LOL
    That looks like the motor is black...is that true? If so, it does not need oiling.

    Does your motor housing have this slit in the side and a oil port that can be seen in this pic? If not, then you don't need to oil.

    If it is grey and has the slit then...

    1643660985932-png.7798096


    All of this info is posted above in this thread, right?
     
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    secondofangle2

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    It was a joke because the thing is massive. I’m pretty sure it’s a non-oiler
     

    Cardboard Assassin

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    I have a 13 year old Max-50 (no longer made) with Grey motor and it works great but

    I called recently (to ask about a completely new induction annealer mentioned on the website) and DG was not very pleasant. He didn’t tell me to F off but that was the attitude of his gruff response. I felt like I should have apologized for calling before I hung up. But I didnt

    I called today and placed an order for another cutter head / case holder, I selected the "Sales" number and spoke with John, he was pleasant and very helpful.

    Sometimes people are good at one thing (engineering / machining type stuff for example) and terrible at other things (customer service for example).
     
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    secondofangle2

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    Has that motor been on steroids?!
    Yeah that’s the 2009 style Max-50 with the super motor for 50 BMG I guess he figured out all that power isn’t needed.

    Also agree that Doug is the engineer machinist not the salesman customer service guy and TBH I’ve had some pilots that didn’t work with my cases and I’ve sent back with a case and he machined it out to fit so all good
     

    Marine52

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    i ordered a Giraud a couple weeks ago, so I’m interested. Sounds like your primary issue is with the 300 Blackout. Did you get the Giraud case holder specific for the 300 Blk? The 308 win has a 20 degree shoulder and the 300 Blk has a 23 degree shoulder. Wonder if there is some issue regarding how the case is fitting the case holder.
     
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    K80/6.5

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    i ordered a Giraud a couple weeks ago, so I’m interested. Sounds like your primary issue is with the 300 Blackout. Did you get the Giraud case holder specific for the 300 Blk? The 308 win has a 20 degree shoulder and the 300 Blk has a 23 degree shoulder. Wonder if there is some issue regarding how the case is fitting the case holder.
    How long did he say the wait is for on the giraud? I plan on ordering one soon. Did you go directly through them or creedmoor sports?
     

    secondofangle2

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    i ordered a Giraud a couple weeks ago, so I’m interested. Sounds like your primary issue is with the 300 Blackout. Did you get the Giraud case holder specific for the 300 Blk? The 308 win has a 20 degree shoulder and the 300 Blk has a 23 degree shoulder. Wonder if there is some issue regarding how the case is fitting the case holder.
    Interesting possibility. Is the case pilot correct? Giraud trimmers have been around for years with few complaints so we should reevaluate the basics.
     

    Ape_Factory

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    Interesting possibility. Is the case pilot correct? Giraud trimmers have been around for years with few complaints so we should reevaluate the basics.
    So yes, I have separate trimmer heads/pilots for 300 blackout, 223 and 308.

    Just a brief update, I managed to get the trimmer out the door and Doug returned it quite quickly, all fixed and ready to rock and roll. I did about 600 300 blackout cases (cut LC 5.56 brass) and it mostly went with zero hiccups. I still managed to stop the motor from spinning twice but generally speaking, I powered right through everything. I still get a bearing chirp/warble every now and again so we'll see how long it holds up.

    I definitely stripped the grub screw so he fixed that but I'd also put the cutter side cog on backwards so the belt retaining lip was facing the wrong way. I still managed to get it working in this configuration prior to having the grub screw strip but it was admittedly a pain. So user error on my part and I'll fall on the sword for that one. The rest of the the trimmer was apparently fine.

    For the record, I had no issues with .223/5.56 or .308. I'll just have to cut my 300 blackout conversions closer to the final length in the future and make the job a bit easier for the trimmer.