took the g21 to the range wanted to chrono a bunch of my ammo...thought I'd share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3LVX461ABE 230gr ammo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3LVX461ABE 230gr ammo
Sidearms & Scatterguns Glock 21 velocity testing
- Thread starter 300WSM
- Start date
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Not trying to be critical, but why does velocity matter for 45 ACP? The only reason I've ever used a Chrono is when I'm trying to gauge the velocities and find the 'sweet spot' on my long range or hunting RIFLE ammo.
I don't understand why everyone is hung up on pistol velocities.
If you want a pistol velocity to worry about ... try working up some True 10mm, 9x25 Dillon or 9X30 Dillon. These are the cartridges where velocity is critical.
Not trying to be critical, but why does velocity matter for 45 ACP? The only reason I've ever used a Chrono is when I'm trying to gauge the velocities and find the 'sweet spot' on my long range or hunting RIFLE ammo.
I don't understand why everyone is hung up on pistol velocities.
If you want a pistol velocity to worry about ... try working up some True 10mm, 9x25 Dillon or 9X30 Dillon. These are the cartridges where velocity is critical.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Again, why do you care about velocity in 45 ACP? I'm seriously curious.
Again, why do you care about velocity in 45 ACP? I'm seriously curious.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Velocity matters when it comes to the expansion of hollowpoint bullets. This shouldn't be any problem with a full-size .45ACP such as the G21, but is a serious concern with compact models.
Velocity matters when it comes to the expansion of hollowpoint bullets. This shouldn't be any problem with a full-size .45ACP such as the G21, but is a serious concern with compact models.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight.
45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight. </div></div>
Point #1:
Just for the record ... I'm one of the naysayers that says HIGH velocity <span style="font-weight: bold">DOES NOT</span> matter with a 45 ACP. If anything, you want a lower velocity round especially for daily carry!
Point #2:
I have shot and killed 2 deer with a Glock 21 w/ 6" KKM Barrel in the past 3 years! The .45 ACP <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> a good pre-100 yd. deer cartridge. However, chances are most hunters don't have the skill to shoot at anything over 50 yds. with any sort of accuracy at all.
Point #3:
You get the same wound effect from a Gold Dot bullet that is traveling at 850 fps vs. the same bullet traveling at 950 fps. Anything faster, and you have a chance of a 'pass through'. For the record ... a 'pass through' <span style="font-weight: bold">IS NOT </span>desirable in self defense ammo.
Again ... velocity isn't important in 45 acp. If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity!
Why? For 3 simple reasons ... Recoil, Recovery, and Collateral Damage possibility. In other words ... there is a very good chance that your assailant WILL NOT be wearing armor! You want to be able to control the shot! You do not want a pass through that would harm property or persons not enganged in the fight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight. </div></div>
Point #1:
Just for the record ... I'm one of the naysayers that says HIGH velocity <span style="font-weight: bold">DOES NOT</span> matter with a 45 ACP. If anything, you want a lower velocity round especially for daily carry!
Point #2:
I have shot and killed 2 deer with a Glock 21 w/ 6" KKM Barrel in the past 3 years! The .45 ACP <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> a good pre-100 yd. deer cartridge. However, chances are most hunters don't have the skill to shoot at anything over 50 yds. with any sort of accuracy at all.
Point #3:
You get the same wound effect from a Gold Dot bullet that is traveling at 850 fps vs. the same bullet traveling at 950 fps. Anything faster, and you have a chance of a 'pass through'. For the record ... a 'pass through' <span style="font-weight: bold">IS NOT </span>desirable in self defense ammo.
Again ... velocity isn't important in 45 acp. If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity!
Why? For 3 simple reasons ... Recoil, Recovery, and Collateral Damage possibility. In other words ... there is a very good chance that your assailant WILL NOT be wearing armor! You want to be able to control the shot! You do not want a pass through that would harm property or persons not enganged in the fight.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Rooster, quit crapping on this guys thread. He provides some data for your viewing pleasure.
If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it.
If you'd like to continue to pontificate how you feel about 45acp velocity, start a new thread.
Thanks.
Rooster, quit crapping on this guys thread. He provides some data for your viewing pleasure.
If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it.
If you'd like to continue to pontificate how you feel about 45acp velocity, start a new thread.
Thanks.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
There is plenty of this type discussion/debate/opinionated pissing match over in the caliber corner on glocktalk.com. As the wise man above once said, " Knowledge is good ". Thanks for taking the time to share 300WSM.
There is plenty of this type discussion/debate/opinionated pissing match over in the caliber corner on glocktalk.com. As the wise man above once said, " Knowledge is good ". Thanks for taking the time to share 300WSM.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight. </div></div>
Point #1:
Just for the record ... I'm one of the naysayers that says HIGH velocity <span style="font-weight: bold">DOES NOT</span> matter with a 45 ACP. If anything, you want a lower velocity round especially for daily carry!
Point #2:
I have shot and killed 2 deer with a Glock 21 w/ 6" KKM Barrel in the past 3 years! The .45 ACP <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> a good pre-100 yd. deer cartridge. However, chances are most hunters don't have the skill to shoot at anything over 50 yds. with any sort of accuracy at all.
Point #3:
You get the same wound effect from a Gold Dot bullet that is traveling at 850 fps vs. the same bullet traveling at 950 fps. Anything faster, and you have a chance of a 'pass through'. For the record ... a 'pass through' <span style="font-weight: bold">IS NOT </span>desirable in self defense ammo.
Again ... velocity isn't important in 45 acp. If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity!
Why? For 3 simple reasons ... Recoil, Recovery, and Collateral Damage possibility. In other words ... there is a very good chance that your assailant WILL NOT be wearing armor! You want to be able to control the shot! You do not want a pass through that would harm property or persons not enganged in the fight. </div></div>
you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 is not a magic caliber... If it was, guys would use 45acp to hunt with...but they use 45 caliber bullets going faster - ie. 45 colt, 454casull, 460s&w.
Point: Velocity does matter.
In any case I'd rather have more than less! That is as long as I can shoot it straight. </div></div>
Point #1:
Just for the record ... I'm one of the naysayers that says HIGH velocity <span style="font-weight: bold">DOES NOT</span> matter with a 45 ACP. If anything, you want a lower velocity round especially for daily carry!
Point #2:
I have shot and killed 2 deer with a Glock 21 w/ 6" KKM Barrel in the past 3 years! The .45 ACP <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> a good pre-100 yd. deer cartridge. However, chances are most hunters don't have the skill to shoot at anything over 50 yds. with any sort of accuracy at all.
Point #3:
You get the same wound effect from a Gold Dot bullet that is traveling at 850 fps vs. the same bullet traveling at 950 fps. Anything faster, and you have a chance of a 'pass through'. For the record ... a 'pass through' <span style="font-weight: bold">IS NOT </span>desirable in self defense ammo.
Again ... velocity isn't important in 45 acp. If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity!
Why? For 3 simple reasons ... Recoil, Recovery, and Collateral Damage possibility. In other words ... there is a very good chance that your assailant WILL NOT be wearing armor! You want to be able to control the shot! You do not want a pass through that would harm property or persons not enganged in the fight. </div></div>
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!</div></div>
So Rooster, you better thank 300wsm for the time and money he spent to do that video so you can pick YOUR preference of the slowest round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!</div></div>
So Rooster, you better thank 300wsm for the time and money he spent to do that video so you can pick YOUR preference of the slowest round.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!</div></div>
So Rooster, you better thank 300wsm for the time and money he spent to do that video so you can pick YOUR preference of the slowest round. </div></div>
I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you want slower. I want faster. Now we both know which to buy!</div></div>
So Rooster, you better thank 300wsm for the time and money he spent to do that video so you can pick YOUR preference of the slowest round. </div></div>
I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Thanks for the info 300WSM.
Rooster, you better get busy scolding the ammo makers for all that +P 45 ammo. They even publish velocity numbers for their standard and +P stuff....idiots.
I like my 230gr XTPs handloaded at 950 fps in my G21, it just makes me feel good. Sorry if that bothers you......well not really.
Thanks for the info 300WSM.
Rooster, you better get busy scolding the ammo makers for all that +P 45 ammo. They even publish velocity numbers for their standard and +P stuff....idiots.
I like my 230gr XTPs handloaded at 950 fps in my G21, it just makes me feel good. Sorry if that bothers you......well not really.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the info 300WSM.
Rooster, you better get busy scolding the ammo makers for all that +P 45 ammo. They even publish velocity numbers for their standard and +P stuff....idiots.
I like my 230gr XTPs handloaded at 950 fps in my G21, it just makes me feel good. Sorry if that bothers you......well not really. </div></div>
Here's my thing. In my opinion, loading 45 ACp to +P loadings is 'lipstick on a pig'! If you want to get the best out of your 45 ACP pistol then pick up some 450 SMC from Double Tap. However, I wouldn't carry 450 SMC on a daily basis just because it's way too much to shoot more than a magazine of.
Really, what are you looking for with wasting the powder and trying to get the extra fps out of it? Oh well ... to each his own, but to me it's a little like this ....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the info 300WSM.
Rooster, you better get busy scolding the ammo makers for all that +P 45 ammo. They even publish velocity numbers for their standard and +P stuff....idiots.
I like my 230gr XTPs handloaded at 950 fps in my G21, it just makes me feel good. Sorry if that bothers you......well not really. </div></div>
Here's my thing. In my opinion, loading 45 ACp to +P loadings is 'lipstick on a pig'! If you want to get the best out of your 45 ACP pistol then pick up some 450 SMC from Double Tap. However, I wouldn't carry 450 SMC on a daily basis just because it's way too much to shoot more than a magazine of.
Really, what are you looking for with wasting the powder and trying to get the extra fps out of it? Oh well ... to each his own, but to me it's a little like this ....
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity! </div></div>
There, serious question answered in a serious way. You prefer lower velocity, so that is why you'd want to know the velocities. Right?
Partly too, it's marketing. Brand A is 45 FPS faster than Brand B, and since we're americans and like one-upping our friends...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity! </div></div>
There, serious question answered in a serious way. You prefer lower velocity, so that is why you'd want to know the velocities. Right?
Partly too, it's marketing. Brand A is 45 FPS faster than Brand B, and since we're americans and like one-upping our friends...
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity! </div></div>
There, serious question answered in a serious way. You prefer lower velocity, so that is why you'd want to know the velocities. Right?
Partly too, it's marketing. Brand A is 45 FPS faster than Brand B, and since we're americans and like one-upping our friends... </div></div>
I agree. It's all marketing. In your example, Brand A will do the exact same job as Brand B. However, since a lot of marketing goes into the design and development of commercial ammo ... they set a hook. Perfect example ... look at Hornady Z-Max 'Zombie Ammo'.
It's the same thing as their V-Max line, but with a green tip.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still haven't heard a valid response as to "Why does anyone want to know?". If there is a valid reason for knowing the velocity ... what is it?
It's a serious question!</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I were looking for a self defense .45 ACP loading I would look for something that claims lower velocity versus higher velocity! </div></div>
There, serious question answered in a serious way. You prefer lower velocity, so that is why you'd want to know the velocities. Right?
Partly too, it's marketing. Brand A is 45 FPS faster than Brand B, and since we're americans and like one-upping our friends... </div></div>
I agree. It's all marketing. In your example, Brand A will do the exact same job as Brand B. However, since a lot of marketing goes into the design and development of commercial ammo ... they set a hook. Perfect example ... look at Hornady Z-Max 'Zombie Ammo'.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
Another thing I like my 950 fps ballistics is how it performs at distance.
At 100 yards, it's still doing about 870 fps, and only dropping about 12". Easy to hit, and still enough speed for reliable expansion.
Take a 750 fps load in a short bbl. At 100 yards it's dropping about 24", and down to about 700 fps.
I just don't see a downside to a little extra speed.
Another thing I like my 950 fps ballistics is how it performs at distance.
At 100 yards, it's still doing about 870 fps, and only dropping about 12". Easy to hit, and still enough speed for reliable expansion.
Take a 750 fps load in a short bbl. At 100 yards it's dropping about 24", and down to about 700 fps.
I just don't see a downside to a little extra speed.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
First off, it's not all marketing. Bullets react very different due to design and velocity and manufacturers tailor them to work over a certain parameter.
Generally speaking your "faster equals more penetration and inevitably a pass through" statement is incorrect. A faster hollow point will expand at a faster rate and to a larger overall diameter causing a larger but more shallow wound cavity. In other words, it slows down faster because it grows at a higher rate of speed and runs out of energy in a shorter distance. Only if a bullet is pushed beyond its limitations where it has the propensity to peel back on itself and act more like an fmj, does the likelihood of a pass through increase. These limitations usually aren't exceeded with your average handloader so it becomes a moot point.
The Hornady XTP is a perfect example of design characteristics. They are the bullet of choice for handgun hunters due to a gradual expansion that never completely flattens out, thus increased penetration to the vitals and the ability to remain intact through bone.
So velocity in a .45 ACP matters to some just like it matters for 9mm, .40 and anything other chunk of lead we enjoy throwing down range. If an individual bullet from one ammo company loads to a velocity they achieved decent accuracy with but its velocity node for expansion is only reliable from a 5" barrel then someone shooting a shorty 1911 or other .45 may not be able to depend on that round. If a different ammo company used the same bullet and loads it 75-100 fps faster then said person just found their carry load.
I fail to understand why people hate on people who care about velocity. If you don't care about it that's your preference, nobody is forcing you to.
First off, it's not all marketing. Bullets react very different due to design and velocity and manufacturers tailor them to work over a certain parameter.
Generally speaking your "faster equals more penetration and inevitably a pass through" statement is incorrect. A faster hollow point will expand at a faster rate and to a larger overall diameter causing a larger but more shallow wound cavity. In other words, it slows down faster because it grows at a higher rate of speed and runs out of energy in a shorter distance. Only if a bullet is pushed beyond its limitations where it has the propensity to peel back on itself and act more like an fmj, does the likelihood of a pass through increase. These limitations usually aren't exceeded with your average handloader so it becomes a moot point.
The Hornady XTP is a perfect example of design characteristics. They are the bullet of choice for handgun hunters due to a gradual expansion that never completely flattens out, thus increased penetration to the vitals and the ability to remain intact through bone.
So velocity in a .45 ACP matters to some just like it matters for 9mm, .40 and anything other chunk of lead we enjoy throwing down range. If an individual bullet from one ammo company loads to a velocity they achieved decent accuracy with but its velocity node for expansion is only reliable from a 5" barrel then someone shooting a shorty 1911 or other .45 may not be able to depend on that round. If a different ammo company used the same bullet and loads it 75-100 fps faster then said person just found their carry load.
I fail to understand why people hate on people who care about velocity. If you don't care about it that's your preference, nobody is forcing you to.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
man..can't a fella just geek out over some data? Sheesh! OP thanks for the video!
man..can't a fella just geek out over some data? Sheesh! OP thanks for the video!
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
I agree with Dark Horse. If you really have to argue why, then you might no understand the answer.
The other thing about velocity along with a bullet weight is how much energy that bullet is carrying. A slower bullet is going to have less energy than a faster one, which is the reason we shoot the bullet instead of throwing it.
And if you complete with a pistol you definitely aren't going to be asking why you crono the rounds.
The OP has a great video.
I agree with Dark Horse. If you really have to argue why, then you might no understand the answer.
The other thing about velocity along with a bullet weight is how much energy that bullet is carrying. A slower bullet is going to have less energy than a faster one, which is the reason we shoot the bullet instead of throwing it.
And if you complete with a pistol you definitely aren't going to be asking why you crono the rounds.
The OP has a great video.
Re: Glock 21 velocity testing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my thing. In my opinion, loading 45 ACp to +P loadings is 'lipstick on a pig'! </div></div>
If you want proper expansion from a 230gr JHP from a short barrel (<4"), then a +P load is often the only way to make that happen.
I don't understand the fight against information. At worse, just ignore the data and move on with life. At best, someone stumbles upon new knowledge in the process of performing testing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my thing. In my opinion, loading 45 ACp to +P loadings is 'lipstick on a pig'! </div></div>
If you want proper expansion from a 230gr JHP from a short barrel (<4"), then a +P load is often the only way to make that happen.
I don't understand the fight against information. At worse, just ignore the data and move on with life. At best, someone stumbles upon new knowledge in the process of performing testing.
