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Gunsmithing Got a small mill .... could use some advice

M

mscott

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 10, 2007
1,417
11
Central Ohio
#1
I just bought a used Enco benchtop milling machine on a stand and could use some advice on tooling. I've never owned a mill, but figured every workshop needs one so here I am. I'll get a pic up in a day or 2. It has power down feed, power table feed added, 230v motor. Future plans are to maybe flute my Savage bolts, make an aluminum chassis stock, put some holes or slots in an AR handguard, and maybe make some lightening cuts on a Glock slide. All I got with the machine is a small and large vise, so I need to get some stuff.

It's an R8 spindle, so I'm guessing a set of collets are in order, but then noticed the individual end mill holders. Which would be the better way to go to get started?

Now about end mills .... there's 2 flute, 4 flute, HSS, coated, other alloys, etc. Should I buy a whole set or just a few like 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" to get started? What material (HSS, TiN coated, ??)?

Is it a good idea to get a couple of roughing end mills?

What about some sort of an indexer for fluting bolts or working on my AR handguards? I've seen some cheaper ones that use 5c collets for $50 or so and you can get a tailstock for them. Are they O.K. for my limited use? Would I be better off using a ball end mill and carefully setting them up in the vise?

What about machining on a Glock? I've heard they are very hard, so what's the best approach to them?
 
#5
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

Hi,

First, you shouldn't buy tooling in "sets".

That word has an underlying tone of "import/cheap/disposable" if you know what I mean.

On the same note, you shouldn't have to go out and buy PCVN inserts either.

If your machining mild steel, you can get away with HSS tooling. Just keep the RPM conservative and use a coolant of some kind. Be it mister or flood.

If you get into tool grade steels or heat treated/exotic alloys then its pretty much the exclusive domain of carbide tooling. Some can still be whittled on with coated HSS, but you'll have to crawl through it and surface finish may leave a bit to be desired.

Roughers or "corn cobs" are handy to have. Stock removal goes much faster with less heat put into the part/tool. They cost more but if your trying to remove a bunch of stuff its a good way to start.

2 and 3 flute are pretty much exclusive to plastics and aluminum.
These kinds of materials allow for aggressive machining provided you can evacuate the chips. Coolant helps as does deep chip gullets in the tool. Best NOT to use these tools on ferrous alloys though. They won't last long.

4, 5, 6 flute tools work well with ferrous/SS/TI/etc. . . type materials. The chip gullets aren't as deep. You trade for tool mass/rigidity as this is what your after when cutting steel. If you try hogging with one of these I wish you luck. I hope you don't pay much for them if you do. They won't like it and will likely break and/or ruin your part. Light cuts. I usually don't go past 10% of the tool's diameter for finishing with these things.

5 and 6 flute are almost exclusive for finish machining when you want a light chip load, high tool stability. This promotes a nice clean finish assuming the machine is tight and the work holding is solid.

High helix and/or variable helix tooling is generally for AL although you see them used for steel too with high flute counts.

I wouldn't spend the extra $ for coated tools on your machine. You can't push them hard enough to take advantage of it.

NEVER used coated carbide on composite materials. They won't last long at all. The glue in the resin will heat up and melt. It'll bond to the tool at the draft behind the cutting edge. This causes a thermal shock on the cutting surface and quickly erodes the edge. coated tools aren't as sharp as non coated. The coatings won't adhere to the razor edge so they are ground with .0015-.002" radius's at the edge.

Shop around. GNARR tool is reasonably priced stuff. There's tons of this kind of chit out there. Avoid Ebay IMHO. It'll likely be junk unless its an insert tool. Then maaaayyyybbbbeeee.

SAVE your carbide. That chit is worth up to $15/lb. Keep a coffee can with you for broken tooling. when you fill it up, you can buy something cool for your shop.

Good luck and hope this helps.

C.
 
#6
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

The very first thing you do is get a GOOD vise like a Kurt that is where it ALL starts. Then get your collets some inexpensive tooling and play, add as you go. You will figure it out in short order.
 
#7
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

Thanks for the replies.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Housel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anything tooling related to machining on Glock slides is spelled C-a-r-b-i-d-e, until you get through the Tennifer.
</div></div>
That's basically the answer I expected.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 73 fastback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would get a set of collets and and forego the end mill holders. I think 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 end mills are a good start. </div></div>
That makes sense as well. I'll probably buy a set of collets along with 3 or 4 good end mills and see what I need from there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hero's machine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of money do you have to spend? There is a bunch of stuff you will want, to start with....do you have everything to tram it in? </div></div>
Not much $$$, but I want to use it wisely. I also have a Starrett 8" machine level and a couple of indicators, so I should be able to get it set up and adjusted well enough fo my purposes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,

First, you shouldn't buy tooling in "sets".
<span style="color: #3333FF">yea, I know better, but had to ask </span>
Roughers or "corn cobs" are handy to have. Stock removal goes much faster with less heat put into the part/tool. They cost more but if your trying to remove a bunch of stuff its a good way to start.
<span style="color: #3333FF">I was mostly thinking of this for when I try an aluminum chassis </span>
Avoid Ebay IMHO. It'll likely be junk unless its an insert tool. Then maaaayyyybbbbeeee.
<span style="color: #3333FF"> I've been shopping at Enco for the majority of my stuff. </span>

Good luck and hope this helps.
<span style="color: #3333FF"> Yes, it does. Thanks for your time.</span>

C.</div></div>
 
#9
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

provided this is your first experience with a mill, with a small benchtop manual machine, the first thing i'd do is get an enco catalog. i'd order up a r8 collet set, a couple/few 2 flute and 4 flute 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" bare hss endmills, the "machinery's handbook" (what ever version they are up to now) some safety glasses and at a minimum a decent caliper. then i'd see if there was a place in your town that sells steel and aluminum remnants. i'd buy a bunch of drops to practice holding tollerances on and get a feel for the machine.

i wouldn't worry about carbide until you have a good feel for your machine. carbide is more rigid than hss but it is also far more brittle and less forgiving to improper feeds and speeds.

helical fluting on a manual machine is going to be tough. straight fluting would just take an indexer and tailstock.
 
#10
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

Yes, it would only be straight fluting. I always wear safety glasses and have most of the measuring tools I'll need along with the Machinery's Handbook.

Here are a couple pics
mill001.jpg

mill003.jpg

mill002.jpg
 
#11
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

First thing is learn about the disadvantage of a round column. Loosing x and y position if you don't use the quill is annoying. Make sure you have decent dial test indicator to align the vise. Also get some way lube. I like Vactra 2.

As far as tooling, I like ER collets over regular collets. You have to tighten the shit out of them though or the cutter might slip. Glacern and Maritool both sell decent tooling. Glacern also has videos for people new to milling machines that I would suggest you watch. Sign up for Enco's mailing list as well as their emails as they will occasionally have 20% off which includes the items in their fliers already on sale.
 
#15
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

Like 300 said, get some remnants and go to work. Start making tools for your shop. This is good practice and if you mess something up you can usually modify it to work or make it do something else. This is the best way to make your practice time productive. I am constantly making tools even after 20 years at it because of so many one off jobs.
 
#16
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

I haven't seen it posted here yet, but with ALL of your trials, attempts, practices, and working projects,,,,,ALWAYS wear your Eye Protection.

There's no going back. No 'do-overs'. No tolerance.

Be safe, and have fun.
 
#19
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

I appreciate all the advice. I've gotten a few end mills, a set of R8 collets, drill chuck, and about ready to get going. It was basically just used as a drill press by it's previous owner and yes, it needs oiled up. It still has a lot of cosmoline all over it. The belts are decent, but I'll replace them eventually.

I'll have to spend some time on You Tube looking at videos. I never knew how edge finders were used until I looked on there.

The first project will be cutting some slots in an aluminum AR handguard. I'm guessing a ball end mill might be better for plunging into the aluminum tubing, so I'll have to get a couple of those ordered. After seeing people make 10/22 receivers, AR lowers, muzzle brakes, and such I can see how it could be an interesting hobby.
 
#20
Re: Got a small mill .... could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'll have to spend some time on You Tube looking at videos. I never knew how edge finders were used until I looked on there.

The first project will be cutting some slots in an aluminum AR handguard. I'm guessing a ball end mill might be better for plunging into the aluminum tubing, so I'll have to get a couple of those ordered. </div></div>

An edge finder is so simple, hard to believe it could be very accurate. When I started school I was rather skeptical of this edge finder thing I bought.

I wouldn't waste my money on ball endmills for a slotting application. Unless you plan to groove or flute your handgaurds, just drop a drill through it, and buzz through it with an endmill.

ETA: If you purchase center cutting endmills, you can plunge those as well.
 
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