Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

[Southwind]

Did some shooting tonight. Managed to shoot a 5-shot 100yd group with my Savage .223 that probably measures .5" or less. A dime could easily cover the group hole. My question is how much better does a custom rifle with thousand dollar glass shoot than a factory rifle with lower end scope?

I should say that my rifle was the Savage 10 FLP in a Choate stock. Forgive me, but I do have a Barska SWAT 6-24X44 on top. The gun shoots lights out at 100yd, which is all the further I have been able to shoot at paper. Because of the glass, will I expect to loose accuracy out to 3-500yds where a high end scope would not?

Normally, I hand load for all my rifles, but tonight I was using remanufactured loads to shoot this group. I was very impressed for no more than I have in it.

All your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Also can someone help me with posting pics?

Steve

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

Fill out your profile.

Mechanical accuracy will probably be better on a custom. Glass just allows you to see the target. Better glass equals better clarity. Better glass equals better reticles that subtend to given dimensions with less error. Better glass equals more repeatable adjustments. For the benchrest folks it probably doesn't matter too much. For tactical shooting at UKD you need quality optics. Period.

The driver is way more important than the vehicle.

Josh

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Southwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some shooting tonight. Managed to shoot a 5-shot 100yd group with my Savage .223 that probably measures .5" or less. A dime could easily cover the group hole. My question is how much better does a custom rifle with thousand dollar glass shoot than a factory rifle with lower end scope?
</div></div>

I think you answered your own question.

How many tries did it take you to get "A" group like that?

I upgraded from a factory 700 because while I could routinely turn in pretty good accuracy it was nowhere near as consistent as with a high end rifle.

What you pay for is the knowledge that the rifle will support as much accuracy as you are capable of WHEN you are capable of it. When you send one out, you don't have to wonder if it was you or the platform.

There there is the durability aspect. If that rifle falls off the bench and lands on the optic.....is it still going to work? It would suck to spend more than a grand to get to a match only to find out your rig didn't survive the trip.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

Steve,

The equipment is a two prong factor.

Prong one.
you have confidence in that flier is always you, not the rifle, or the scope slipping.

Prong two.
Your shit will not brake as often.

Other than that, bragging rights, killer photos and safe storage is the in future of 80% of the high end rifles you see on this site and others. I have seen in my day, everything from the most top end, to the lowest, all failed, all won, all broke, all held together.

It depends on the shooter, there budget, there experience level, marksmanship ability, and love of the art. So rock on, do what you know. Keep us informed if you brake that Barska some day and ever learn positional shooting.

Some of your equipment might change.

then again, it might not.

John

 

[Diablo]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

Some good advice given.

Sounds like you're just starting, and that's a good thing to do.

Practice until you can wring the best out of the equipment you have.

Then you can work on upgrading your equipment.

 

[OFIS]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diablo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Practice until you can wring the best out of the equipment you have.

Then you can work on upgrading your equipment. </div></div>

Thats exactly what I've done for the past 5 years, slow and steady.

Dont make a big fuss about groups, the elders will sense a disturbance in the force...

Accuracy = Consistency. 1 group does not meet the group posting rule which exists to emphasize the sheer levels of consistency that can possibly be achieved. Their worth is merely to show consistency of the user and the tool.

Get 5 dime groups in a row and have no remorse in spoiling yourself with an upgrade, you'll have earned it.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

All depends on your goals. You certainly need good barrels & ammo and reliable scopes and mounts. But you don't need super expensive stuff depending on the distance and frequency.

Plenty of rifles shoot small groups at 100 yards. If that is your measure, don't waste a lot of money on higher-end stuff.

Take several rifles that shoot well at 100 yd out to 600+ yard and then you will see noticeable differences. Shoot 20-shot groups instead of 3 & 5-shot groups and you will also see a difference. As mentioned, higher end gear tends to be more reliable over extended periods of thousands of shots. If you are shooting that much and at distance, then you will begin to figure out the answer for yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend you do anything until you identify deficiencies that need fixing all by your lonesome. I live by the school of "figure it out fer yourself." Listen to advice, but prove it to yourself.

 

[bm11]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think you answered your own question.

How many tries did it take you to get "A" group like that?

</div></div>Exactly. There is a big difference between 1 group in 20 being .5 inches, and every group being .5 inches, even if the best group of the bunch measures the same.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

Some people get lucky with factory rifles. If your accuracy is acceptable for what you want to do, then roll with it.

Same with the glass... if you see everything you need to and have all the functionality you want with your scope... then it is good enough for you.

 

[Brutas]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

A .250 aggregate group will win most benchrest matches. 5 groups of 5 shots at 100 and 200 yards.

It takes money, knowledge and skill to reduce variables.

 

[CSiebert]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

Confidence is another benefit to a very accurate rifle. I have some factory rifles that shoot well and would benefit little from rebarrelling ect. I have some that needed it in a big way. If you ever get a chance to shoot a rifle capable of consistently shooting 1/2 MOA groups and occasionaly when you have a good day shoot 1/4 or better it will be hard to go back to shooting off the shelf stuff.

 

[Red Belly]

Re: Group sizes in relation to optics and custom guns

you have confidence in that flier is always you, not the rifle, or the scope slipping.

Your shit will not brake as often.

Other than that, bragging rights, killer photos and safe storage is the in future of 80% of the high end rifles you see on this site and others. I have seen in my day, everything from the most top end, to the lowest, all failed, all won, all broke, all held together.

John [/quote]

Truer words have never been spoken