Gunsmithing Groupings widening up, UPDATED and Solved

Shooter_308

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2012
329
2
37
Long Island, New York
Hey all, I have a little issue i'd like to ask you guys about. I've owned the rifle (Remington 700 SPS-AAC) since December and since then have put ~700 rounds through it. Recently, around the last 3 times i've gone shooting i've noticed my groupings tending to open up a little more and more,with more frequent fliers. Now, I went today and noticed again, my groups have opened up considerably. This gun has been a sub-moa shooter since i bought it, and now it's shooting between .75-1.75" randomly. This is at 100 yards.

Set up:
Remington 700 AAC-SD
Weaver 4-20x50 Tactical
Seekins Rings
NF 20moa base
Choate Tactical Stock
Harris BRMS
AAC Brake
Timney Trigger set @ 2.5lbs

I'm shooting 168gr FGMM out of this set up, as well as my brand new SPS-V set up which was punching .75-.90" groups all day today, so i know it's not the ammo.

I'm pretty sure it's not my scope. It's a Weaver 4-20x50 tactical FFP. The only reason i'm saying i don't think it's the scope is because there are times where I end up shooting a nice .75" 3-shot group, then i'll get 2 fliers opening the group up to about 1.75". I've been shooting my whole life and have really gotten my form down in the last few years so i know it's not due to bad form/trigger discipline.

I have never fully stripped the copper out of this gun i'll admit. I've hit it with Hoppes copper solvent <span style="font-style: italic">maybe</span> twice since i've owned it, but don't think I fully stripped it out. I ended up picking up some Sweets 7.62 solvent from a local retailer after reading all the good (and bad) about it today after my range trip. It took quite a few cleanings to get all of the copper out (lots of dark blue patches coming out) and the barrel does look much cleaner, and i can't see anymore copper fouling at the crown.

Does anyone agree this could have been the issue? Any other input is more than welcome.


TL;DR - Would ~700 rounds of copper fouling cause 100 yard groups to open up from sub moa-1.50"?
 
Re: Groupings widening up, could it be copper fouling?

It very well could be, you will know when you take it back out, but don't be surprised if it takes a few shots to settle back down again.
 
Re: Groupings widening up, could it be copper fouling?

look at the lands at the muzzle. if they are the same color as a 168 smk then you have build up. my RUM would look like someone painted the bore with copper after 20 rds or so. i invested in some kg-12, fixed that problem. havent done anything with my AAC sd yet besides what comes out with the powder solvent.
 
Re: Groupings widening up, could it be copper fouling?

Well, i went at it with some Sweets 7.62 last night and completely stripped everything out, so i was able to get some range time in today. I put a cloverleaf on bulls eye at 100 yards after a slight re-sight in. The it started up again, randomly throwing shots all over the 3x3" target. What i decided to do was play around with the torque values on my choate stock, remember i had gone from 65 front 45 back to 65 in/lb for both. I loosened them up, torqued the front down to 65 in/lb in the front and 45 in the rear...lo and behold this is what i got:

IMG459.jpg
5-shot group before

IMG458.jpg
10 shot group after, ignore the one i pulled
wink.gif


so i guess that was my problem....i'm sure the copper didn't help though.
 
Re: Groupings widening up, could it be copper fouling?

If it were me, my curiosity would get the better of me and I'd have to re-torque and un-torque a few time to be sure. I can't wrap my mind around how this could be the cause unless something was bound up funny the first time and loosening it all up relieved the situation. If it is reproducible, I'd think that the bedding was off or something in order for 20 in-lbs of torque to put that much strain on a receiver.