Gunsmithing Hand Crowning Tool?

[BenY 2013]

So I was told today by one of my friends that he had read that some of the best looking crowns are done with one of those hand crowning tools. It seemed a little off of what I would have thought. I would have thought that a lathe would have given a much better crown, but I have been wrong before! So are these tools worth the money or not?

Ben

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I've never used a hand tool but would suspect it hard to reproduce what speed and sharp tooling can produce.

 

[tarfu64]

Manson Reamers has a nice crowning tool. It's geared for the professional user who will be recutting many crowns, hence the cost is a bit steep. Having said that, it cuts one of the nicest crowns I have seen and does so without having to remove the barrel & chucking it up into a lathe.

 

[Sigma05]

X2 on the Manson crown tool. I used it on my M1As and it works great. On one of my M1As it really improved accuracy quite a bit, as well as help align better the muzzle brake. I had never done this in my life, nor had anyone shown me, and did it with no problem. Great tool that's very easy to use.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

 

[Danco411]

I just picked up two crowning tools. One is a .22 cal recessed hunting crown made by PTG. I cut down both my .223 and 22-250 barrels. The other is a Sinclair 11 degree target crown cutter with .30 cal pilot. Did my son's stainless .308 Savage barrel which we cut down to 18". Both netted excellent results and took just minutes. I paid $55 for the .22 cutter and $100 for the Sinclair with the one pilot and a drill adapter.

 

[wilecoyote]

buyed and used (from Brownell's)_ interesting,slow,and really helpful as LAST RESORT IF you don'have lathe facilities_

 

[kortik]

So I was told today by one of my friends that he had read that some of the best looking crowns are done with one of those hand crowning tools. It seemed a little off of what I would have thought. I would have thought that a lathe would have given a much better crown, but I have been wrong before! So are these tools worth the money or not?

Ben

Your friend meant muzzle crowning tools sold by Dave Manson. "Nice looking" is not really the key, but concentricity of crown to the bore is. That is what really counts. But you can also make it the nicest looking crown, if that is important, by adding extra crown polishing step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b23lfzpZrJ4

 

[BenY 2013]

I appreciate the input! I have looked at the Manson tool and it is a bit steep, so I was considering Brownells cutter, isn't it basically the same principle? Any 1st hand experience with this one. I'm actually not certain I am even going to be buying one. As I do have access to a lathe, just wanted the opinions of some of the knowledgeable people here on the Hide.

Ben

 

[kortik]

I appreciate the input! I have looked at the Manson tool and it is a bit steep, so I was considering Brownells cutter, isn't it basically the same principle? Any 1st hand experience with this one. I'm actually not certain I am even going to be buying one. As I do have access to a lathe, just wanted the opinions of some of the knowledgeable people here on the Hide.

Ben

Dave has "military rifle kit", for a bit over $120. It's what shown in the video.

 

[Gene Poole]

I appreciate the input! I have looked at the Manson tool and it is a bit steep, so I was considering Brownells cutter, isn't it basically the same principle? Any 1st hand experience with this one. I'm actually not certain I am even going to be buying one. As I do have access to a lathe, just wanted the opinions of some of the knowledgeable people here on the Hide.

Ben

I just did one of these on the lathe for my brother (he had an old 10-22 barrel he wanted chopped and threaded). I trued up to the bore using a long stem DTI at two points: about 2 inches in and at the very end. I singled-pointed it with a 1/2 in. HSS bit honed razor sharp and cut it from the bore out using the compound wheel set at 11 deg. I polished it with 240, 400, then 600 wet-or-dry with WD40. Sorry I don't have a photo of the polished crown.

 

[BillCh]

I got the Manson tool for several calibers. The down side is that it's relatively expensive. The upside is that it does at least as good a job as any gunsmith around here. It would be hard to justify the cost if you only had one or two barrels to do. It's worth it for me.

B

 

[BenY 2013]

I just did one of these on the lathe for my brother (he had an old 10-22 barrel he wanted chopped and threaded). I trued up to the bore using a long stem DTI at two points: about 2 inches in and at the very end. I singled-pointed it with a 1/2 in. HSS bit honed razor sharp and cut it from the bore out using the compound wheel set at 11 deg. I polished it with 240, 400, then 600 wet-or-dry with WD40. Sorry I don't have a photo of the polished crown.

To get the two points with the DTI do you move the carriage to the left?

Also is that an action truing fixture holding the barrel? How well does that work? I think I like that idea!

I am glad to hear that you guys like your hand crowning tools as well!

Ben

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I use my fixture for barrels as well. Works great!

old 22 barrel I crowned the other day.

 

[BenY 2013]

Hmm.... I am now thinking that I may be better off to spend my money either buy or making an action truing jig. I have been trying to figure out how to do barrels in this lathe since the headstock is too long to grip the other end of the barrel with a spider...looks like this action truing jig may be the way to go!

Great looking muzzle by the way^^^^

Ben

 

[Gene Poole]

To get the two points with the DTI do you move the carriage to the left?

Yes. The DTI mag mount is fixed to the carriage. I made a sharpie mark on the stylus at the depth that placed it directly under the outermost adjusting allen bolts. Once I had it aligned on the y=axis, I just had to move the carriage back and forth to the mark while adjusting.

Also is that an action truing fixture holding the barrel? How well does that work? I think I like that idea!

No. That is a 2 in. pipe nipple I bought a lowes an hour or so before doing that job. I've got a couple of extensions I can thread to short barrels to adjust with a spider on the outboard end of the spindle, but the 10-22 barrel had no threads to which I could attach. I came up with the idea on-the-fly.

I am glad to hear that you guys like your hand crowning tools as well!

Ben

 

[BenY 2013]

No. That is a 2 in. pipe nipple I bought a lowes an hour or so before doing that job. I've got a couple of extensions I can thread to short barrels to adjust with a spider on the outboard end of the spindle, but the 10-22 barrel had no threads to which I could attach. I came up with the idea on-the-fly.

Glad to hear it doesn't need a spider. I think I am going to give this a try! Thanks

Ben

 

[MarinePMI]

Hmm.... I am now thinking that I may be better off to spend my money either buy or making an action truing jig. I have been trying to figure out how to do barrels in this lathe since the headstock is too long to grip the other end of the barrel with a spider...looks like this action truing jig may be the way to go!

Great looking muzzle by the way^^^^

Ben

You can set up between centers, and then turn with a bent lathe dog, a drive plate, steady rest and a fixture to keep the work piece up against the deadcenter/headstock...

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Hmm.... I am now thinking that I may be better off to spend my money either buy or making an action truing jig. I have been trying to figure out how to do barrels in this lathe since the headstock is too long to grip the other end of the barrel with a spider...looks like this action truing jig may be the way to go!

Great looking muzzle by the way^^^^

Ben

ben,

Truing jig is great and gives you two points to coaxially indicate just like if you were using a spider out the tailstock which I still do on longer barrels. I can get down to a 20" barrel through my headstock but using this fixture is just as solid using a 26" barrel. The fixture is long enough to get a good purchase on the barrel. Perfect for actions, pistol barrels or pistols overall.
Heres the jig with a mark 2 ruger pistol in it.

 

[BenY 2013]

Thank you very much for the info! I think I am convinced! I was a little worried about the rigidity but it seems like it'd be rigid enough!

Ben

 

[kortik]

Thank you very much for the info! I think I am convinced! I was a little worried about the rigidity but it seems like it'd be rigid enough!

Ben

Ben,

Being a tool designer and manufacturer, I got to think about cost of parts and labor all the time. While I'm glad that you've found what you like, specifically a lathe setup which should work for you, and assuming that all you want to do is to cut crown, per your original post, I would suggest you consider how much this crown will actually cost you if you're to go "lathe" way. Also, your time required should be priced in... You do realize this nice lathe setup will be pretty expensive relative, say, even to the most expensive Manson crowning system, which pretty much does the same thing as lathe, but in minutes instead of hours?

But if you already thought about it, then please disregard this reply.

 

[Geno C.]

Time is free though... Right?

 

[BenY 2013]

Ben,

Being a tool designer and manufacturer, I got to think about cost of parts and labor all the time. While I'm glad that you've found what you like, specifically a lathe setup which should work for you, and assuming that all you want to do is to cut crown, per your original post, I would suggest you consider how much this crown will actually cost you if you're to go "lathe" way. Also, your time required should be priced in... You do realize this nice lathe setup will be pretty expensive relative, say, even to the most expensive Manson crowning system, which pretty much does the same thing as lathe, but in minutes instead of hours?

Just a thought for you.

I see what you are saying; however, I also want to thread muzzles as well. I was mostly interested in the opinions of the Hide members on the crowning tool. I guess my main reason for this post was to find out which gives a better result lathe vs hand tools. I guess it also greatly depends on your applications as well.

I was looking at the hand crowning tool for instances where I would not need to thread the muzzle. And for that I think it would work well and save me the time of having to dial it in on the lathe.

I appreciate everyone's help and input, and apologize for any confusion I may have caused!

Ben