Saw an interesting little experiment on Personal Defense tv yesterday. They setup 4 or 5 sheetrock "walls" with insulation and the last one had cladding on outside. All set about 10 or 15ft apart(cant remember exactly). They then proceeded to put various home defense hand gun rounds of various calibres through it as well as 1 FMJ 5.56 round. I was pretty stunned at the result. The hand gun rounds all went straight through all walls. The 5.56 went through two and disintegrated rapidly. Apparently they reckon that the hollow points clog up with the sheet rock material which keeps it from further expansion/disintegration.Any input from folks that might have experienced this? I realise its a pretty rudimentary experiment, but interesting none the less.
Suppressors Handgun overpenetration.
- Thread starter jericho
- Start date
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
I have a Hornady XTP full of wood that never expanded. It does happen with HP designs..
I have a Hornady XTP full of wood that never expanded. It does happen with HP designs..
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see the high speed footage, and the measurements/angles/distances used </div></div>
So would I. However,doing controlled tests to predict what will happen in an uncontrolled situation wont tell us much. Still, high speed footage is always fun to watch.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see the high speed footage, and the measurements/angles/distances used </div></div>
So would I. However,doing controlled tests to predict what will happen in an uncontrolled situation wont tell us much. Still, high speed footage is always fun to watch.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
check out Gary Robert's ballistic posts on M4carbine....they are very informative....it's counter-intuituve that the light fast 223 fragments when it hits a barrier as opposed to a handgun...that's why entry teams have changed to the rifle in part
check out Gary Robert's ballistic posts on M4carbine....they are very informative....it's counter-intuituve that the light fast 223 fragments when it hits a barrier as opposed to a handgun...that's why entry teams have changed to the rifle in part
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Hornady XTP full of wood that never expanded. It does happen with HP designs.. </div></div>
.
I have an expanded one that passed through a deer an then imbedded in a tree behind it. There was a reason I waited for it to get to just "that spot". Dependant on bullet fired from either will also depend on what and how either penetrates btwn rifle/pistol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Hornady XTP full of wood that never expanded. It does happen with HP designs.. </div></div>
.
I have an expanded one that passed through a deer an then imbedded in a tree behind it. There was a reason I waited for it to get to just "that spot". Dependant on bullet fired from either will also depend on what and how either penetrates btwn rifle/pistol
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
I saw the results of a test using .45acp, 9mm, .223 and 12ga #00 buckshot. The pistol rounds penetrated further than the rifle and shotgun. Both pistol rounds showed about the same amount, and the rifle and buckshot were about the same also.
It runs against everything I had believed.
Jim
I saw the results of a test using .45acp, 9mm, .223 and 12ga #00 buckshot. The pistol rounds penetrated further than the rifle and shotgun. Both pistol rounds showed about the same amount, and the rifle and buckshot were about the same also.
It runs against everything I had believed.
Jim
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
I ND'ed a .40 into a concrete slab wall two years ago. Punched a clean hole through the dry wall and disintegrated when it hit the concrete. Not even a chip from the impact. You won't be paying me money to do that again with ANY type of round.
I ND'ed a .40 into a concrete slab wall two years ago. Punched a clean hole through the dry wall and disintegrated when it hit the concrete. Not even a chip from the impact. You won't be paying me money to do that again with ANY type of round.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
really important to know/understand ballistic penetration when you're on an entry/search and another team member or searching officer lights somebody up....especially if you don't know their accuracy under stress
really important to know/understand ballistic penetration when you're on an entry/search and another team member or searching officer lights somebody up....especially if you don't know their accuracy under stress
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
very good info , i think this is an area many shooters are uneducated . esp in a [god forbid ] home defense situation , a hand gun is a poor choice in many ways . a shot gun with 18 " barrel and bird shot is a great choice for most home defence situations .
very good info , i think this is an area many shooters are uneducated . esp in a [god forbid ] home defense situation , a hand gun is a poor choice in many ways . a shot gun with 18 " barrel and bird shot is a great choice for most home defence situations .
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no such thing as "overpenetration." Hit your target. Any bullet with enough energy to take down the bad guy will go through something you don't want it to. </div></div>
I am sure your neighbours will beg to differ if you miss the perp and have to dig bullets out their furniture
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no such thing as "overpenetration." Hit your target. Any bullet with enough energy to take down the bad guy will go through something you don't want it to. </div></div>
I am sure your neighbours will beg to differ if you miss the perp and have to dig bullets out their furniture
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
Participated in a similar study that tested the most common home defense rouncs. A light hollow poit 5.56 was clearly the wisest round to use. After 1 5/8" piece of drywall was penetrated, it tended to frag out, minimizing backstop threat. It became my bedside goto after the test. I live in the city and am concerned about my neighbor's safety. Incedently, 00 Buck was one of the worst for overpenetration. The test was somewhat simple, like the forementioned, but had the added feedback from balistic gel molds on the other side of the
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw an interesting little experiment on Personal Defense tv yesterday. They setup 4 or 5 sheetrock "walls" with insulation and the last one had cladding on outside. All set about 10 or 15ft apart(cant remember exactly). They then proceeded to put various home defense hand gun rounds of various calibres through it as well as 1 FMJ 5.56 round. I was pretty stunned at the result. The hand gun rounds all went straight through all walls. The 5.56 went through two and disintegrated rapidly. Apparently they reckon that the hollow points clog up with the sheet rock material which keeps it from further expansion/disintegration.Any input from folks that might have experienced this? I realise its a pretty rudimentary experiment, but interesting none the less. </div></div>
Participated in a similar study that tested the most common home defense rouncs. A light hollow poit 5.56 was clearly the wisest round to use. After 1 5/8" piece of drywall was penetrated, it tended to frag out, minimizing backstop threat. It became my bedside goto after the test. I live in the city and am concerned about my neighbor's safety. Incedently, 00 Buck was one of the worst for overpenetration. The test was somewhat simple, like the forementioned, but had the added feedback from balistic gel molds on the other side of the
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw an interesting little experiment on Personal Defense tv yesterday. They setup 4 or 5 sheetrock "walls" with insulation and the last one had cladding on outside. All set about 10 or 15ft apart(cant remember exactly). They then proceeded to put various home defense hand gun rounds of various calibres through it as well as 1 FMJ 5.56 round. I was pretty stunned at the result. The hand gun rounds all went straight through all walls. The 5.56 went through two and disintegrated rapidly. Apparently they reckon that the hollow points clog up with the sheet rock material which keeps it from further expansion/disintegration.Any input from folks that might have experienced this? I realise its a pretty rudimentary experiment, but interesting none the less. </div></div>
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
Shotgun is a great choice but bird shot is about the worst. Not even close to enough penetration to reach vital organs or the CNS. Unless the muzzle is about 2" away from your target bird shot will either piss off a determined attacker or scare an inexperienced one, buckshot is the the way to go for a shotgun.
Shotgun is a great choice but bird shot is about the worst. Not even close to enough penetration to reach vital organs or the CNS. Unless the muzzle is about 2" away from your target bird shot will either piss off a determined attacker or scare an inexperienced one, buckshot is the the way to go for a shotgun.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no such thing as "overpenetration." Hit your target. Any bullet with enough energy to take down the bad guy will go through something you don't want it to. </div></div>
I am sure your neighbours will beg to differ if you miss the perp and have to dig bullets out their furniture </div></div>
Or one of their kids.
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. A fmj can have the same energy and walk right through someone, but if a major artery is not destroyed or the cns is not hit, there will be a very different effect. Law enforcement does not use fmj's for a reason.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no such thing as "overpenetration." Hit your target. Any bullet with enough energy to take down the bad guy will go through something you don't want it to. </div></div>
I am sure your neighbours will beg to differ if you miss the perp and have to dig bullets out their furniture </div></div>
Or one of their kids.
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. A fmj can have the same energy and walk right through someone, but if a major artery is not destroyed or the cns is not hit, there will be a very different effect. Law enforcement does not use fmj's for a reason.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
for anyone thinking this whole thing over and trying to choose what cal for home defence ,i would encourage you to set up a simple test.[ even just some plywood well spaced ] and try a few diff options , even if its not " ballistic gel, etc" it will give you some perspective . FYI i guarantee that 1 shot from a 12 ga. w/ birdshot will f you up far more than any handgun, 223,slug or 00b, if the range is less than 7 yds .
for anyone thinking this whole thing over and trying to choose what cal for home defence ,i would encourage you to set up a simple test.[ even just some plywood well spaced ] and try a few diff options , even if its not " ballistic gel, etc" it will give you some perspective . FYI i guarantee that 1 shot from a 12 ga. w/ birdshot will f you up far more than any handgun, 223,slug or 00b, if the range is less than 7 yds .
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264win</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for anyone thinking this whole thing over and trying to choose what cal for home defence ,i would encourage you to set up a simple test.[ even just some plywood well spaced ] and try a few diff options , even if its not " ballistic gel, etc" it will give you some perspective . FYI i guarantee that 1 shot from a 12 ga. w/ birdshot will f you up far more than any handgun, 223,slug or 00b, if the range is less than 7 yds . </div></div>
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264win</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for anyone thinking this whole thing over and trying to choose what cal for home defence ,i would encourage you to set up a simple test.[ even just some plywood well spaced ] and try a few diff options , even if its not " ballistic gel, etc" it will give you some perspective . FYI i guarantee that 1 shot from a 12 ga. w/ birdshot will f you up far more than any handgun, 223,slug or 00b, if the range is less than 7 yds . </div></div>
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that number, but let's assume it <span style="font-style: italic">arguendo</span>.
50% of hollow points fail to expand.
Nearly all (not sure of the actual number) of self defense shootings, involve at least one bullet that fails to hit the target at all.
Both of these demonstrate that it is absolutely essential to know your target and what's beyond.
"Overpenetration" is an academic exercise for people who like to shoot ammo into gelatin and test it.
In the real world, it's completely irrelevant. Even the best hollowpoint bullet designs don't work anywhere even close to 100%, and any bullet with sufficient energy to take out the bad guy can exit, even an expanded hollowpoint.
Drawing some arbitrary line that 12" of penetration is acceptable but 14" or 18" is too much or whatever is purely an academic exercise. Sometimes 10" will do the job. Other times you'll wish you had 20". Maybe even more than that would be desirable in some cases.
Regardless, bullets that hit their target typically aren't the problem. It's the stray ones that create irreconcilable problems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that number, but let's assume it <span style="font-style: italic">arguendo</span>.
50% of hollow points fail to expand.
Nearly all (not sure of the actual number) of self defense shootings, involve at least one bullet that fails to hit the target at all.
Both of these demonstrate that it is absolutely essential to know your target and what's beyond.
"Overpenetration" is an academic exercise for people who like to shoot ammo into gelatin and test it.
In the real world, it's completely irrelevant. Even the best hollowpoint bullet designs don't work anywhere even close to 100%, and any bullet with sufficient energy to take out the bad guy can exit, even an expanded hollowpoint.
Drawing some arbitrary line that 12" of penetration is acceptable but 14" or 18" is too much or whatever is purely an academic exercise. Sometimes 10" will do the job. Other times you'll wish you had 20". Maybe even more than that would be desirable in some cases.
Regardless, bullets that hit their target typically aren't the problem. It's the stray ones that create irreconcilable problems.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that number, but let's assume it <span style="font-style: italic">arguendo</span>.
50% of hollow points fail to expand.
Nearly all (not sure of the actual number) of self defense shootings, involve at least one bullet that fails to hit the target at all.
Both of these demonstrate that it is absolutely essential to know your target and what's beyond.
"Overpenetration" is an academic exercise for people who like to shoot ammo into gelatin and test it.
In the real world, it's completely irrelevant. Even the best hollowpoint bullet designs don't work anywhere even close to 100%, and any bullet with sufficient energy to take out the bad guy can exit, even an expanded hollowpoint.
Drawing some arbitrary line that 12" of penetration is acceptable but 14" or 18" is too much or whatever is purely an academic exercise. Sometimes 10" will do the job. Other times you'll wish you had 20". Maybe even more than that would be desirable in some cases.
Regardless, bullets that hit their target typically aren't the problem. It's the stray ones that create irreconcilable problems. </div></div>
Agreed. I think the issue is how do you try negate the worst case scenario as best as possible.
Maybe live in Kevlar houses?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
99% of expanded bullets will have more than adequate energy to stop someone and never exit the target. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that number, but let's assume it <span style="font-style: italic">arguendo</span>.
50% of hollow points fail to expand.
Nearly all (not sure of the actual number) of self defense shootings, involve at least one bullet that fails to hit the target at all.
Both of these demonstrate that it is absolutely essential to know your target and what's beyond.
"Overpenetration" is an academic exercise for people who like to shoot ammo into gelatin and test it.
In the real world, it's completely irrelevant. Even the best hollowpoint bullet designs don't work anywhere even close to 100%, and any bullet with sufficient energy to take out the bad guy can exit, even an expanded hollowpoint.
Drawing some arbitrary line that 12" of penetration is acceptable but 14" or 18" is too much or whatever is purely an academic exercise. Sometimes 10" will do the job. Other times you'll wish you had 20". Maybe even more than that would be desirable in some cases.
Regardless, bullets that hit their target typically aren't the problem. It's the stray ones that create irreconcilable problems. </div></div>
Agreed. I think the issue is how do you try negate the worst case scenario as best as possible.
Maybe live in Kevlar houses?
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
264win,
You are wrong about the birdshot. I caught some number 8s in a hunting "incident" and if they were buck i wouldn't be typing this. Birdshot is not the best choice for HD. Birdshot makes bad surface wounds that look nasty but they dont incapacitate. After shot placement, penetration is what matters.
Do what you want for your own defense, any weapon is better than nothing, but birdshot is low on the list for effectiveness.
There have been a few studies that suggest that 1B is the most effective compromise between penetration and cross-sectional area but it has never been as popular as 00B. 4B is the least I would consider personally.
264win,
You are wrong about the birdshot. I caught some number 8s in a hunting "incident" and if they were buck i wouldn't be typing this. Birdshot is not the best choice for HD. Birdshot makes bad surface wounds that look nasty but they dont incapacitate. After shot placement, penetration is what matters.
Do what you want for your own defense, any weapon is better than nothing, but birdshot is low on the list for effectiveness.
There have been a few studies that suggest that 1B is the most effective compromise between penetration and cross-sectional area but it has never been as popular as 00B. 4B is the least I would consider personally.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
Didn't Cheney take a head shot with birdshot?
Jim
Didn't Cheney take a head shot with birdshot?
Jim
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pepperbelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Didn't Cheney take a head shot with birdshot?
Jim</div></div> He was the shooter not the shoot'E.
Any test with .308 and say TAP ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pepperbelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Didn't Cheney take a head shot with birdshot?
Jim</div></div> He was the shooter not the shoot'E.
Any test with .308 and say TAP ammo?
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
That's why I said he took a head shot, not a shot to the head. His victim didn't die. I will rely on buckshot for defense and #7.5 for birds. The small shot size just does not have enough mass or momentum for defense use. The use of birdshot indoors is a decades old myth. Use #00.
Jim
That's why I said he took a head shot, not a shot to the head. His victim didn't die. I will rely on buckshot for defense and #7.5 for birds. The small shot size just does not have enough mass or momentum for defense use. The use of birdshot indoors is a decades old myth. Use #00.
Jim
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dark Horse said:
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
So my .270 isnt a good home defense tool? I live in the country. Honestly 9mm 115+p golddots have a good rep. I call BS on the whole 50 percent thing also. .357mag 125gr federals are reliable also. Guese its a choice of what I grab first, the rifle, six gun, or Glock.
So my .270 isnt a good home defense tool? I live in the country. Honestly 9mm 115+p golddots have a good rep. I call BS on the whole 50 percent thing also. .357mag 125gr federals are reliable also. Guese its a choice of what I grab first, the rifle, six gun, or Glock.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Agreed. I think the issue is how do you try negate the worst case scenario as best as possible.
Maybe live in Kevlar houses? </div></div>
I think the best bet is to know what's beyond your target and hope for the best.
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario.
I guess the best we can do is pick a hollow point that has the most modern technology/least likelihood to fail, look at the sights, and hope for the best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Agreed. I think the issue is how do you try negate the worst case scenario as best as possible.
Maybe live in Kevlar houses?
I think the best bet is to know what's beyond your target and hope for the best.
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario.
I guess the best we can do is pick a hollow point that has the most modern technology/least likelihood to fail, look at the sights, and hope for the best.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario...</div></div>
I've thought that same thing while watching videos of officer involved shootings. I am amazed that you don't hear of collateral damage more often.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario...</div></div>
I've thought that same thing while watching videos of officer involved shootings. I am amazed that you don't hear of collateral damage more often.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WASP7067</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario...</div></div>
I've thought that same thing while watching videos of officer involved shootings. I am amazed that you don't hear of collateral damage more often. </div></div>
Yet everyone always talks about finding a newer and better bullet, rather than explaining what happens with the stray ones...or the ones that come from the bad guy, for that matter.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WASP7067</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's real scary for cops on the street, because urban neighborhoods aren't exactly full of nice berms for stopping bullets.
It's pretty amazing that more officer involved shootings don't result in innocent bystanders being injured. And, in some sense, even if they did, we couldn't blame the officers. There's just too much going on in that circumstance to expect them to be perfect in every scenario...</div></div>
I've thought that same thing while watching videos of officer involved shootings. I am amazed that you don't hear of collateral damage more often. </div></div>
Yet everyone always talks about finding a newer and better bullet, rather than explaining what happens with the stray ones...or the ones that come from the bad guy, for that matter.
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
Why are bystanders always innocent?
About the failure to expand, I have some 185 grain Federal Hydrashocks 45 ACP that I quit shooing due to over expansion/failure to reach vitals on the animals I was shooting with them. The 230 grain loads of the same make always killed well. No fails. Coyotes, ferral dogs, deer and hogs up to one of 640 lb. Killed with two shots. One would have done, but I wanted to get him on the ground so shot twice. I have only shot a few dozen animals, so not big sample, but uniformly effective expansion. JMO
Why are bystanders always innocent?
About the failure to expand, I have some 185 grain Federal Hydrashocks 45 ACP that I quit shooing due to over expansion/failure to reach vitals on the animals I was shooting with them. The 230 grain loads of the same make always killed well. No fails. Coyotes, ferral dogs, deer and hogs up to one of 640 lb. Killed with two shots. One would have done, but I wanted to get him on the ground so shot twice. I have only shot a few dozen animals, so not big sample, but uniformly effective expansion. JMO
Re: Handgun overpenetration.
If you guys want to see some fairly extensive penetration tests, go here. The Box of Truth
Nothing fancy, just lots of good penetration tests in various mediums. No real tactical claim, merely good ol fashioned backyard penetration tests.
Click on the link that says Box O' Truth Original Chapters
If you guys want to see some fairly extensive penetration tests, go here. The Box of Truth
Nothing fancy, just lots of good penetration tests in various mediums. No real tactical claim, merely good ol fashioned backyard penetration tests.
Click on the link that says Box O' Truth Original Chapters
Similar threads
