Handloading for a new world order...

[Greg Langelius *]

OK, all the 50gr NOSBT steelcase .223 loads are collet pulled for safety.

Just found a rather accurate load for my new Savage 11 VT .223 (PPU Brass, HDY 75gr HPBTM @ 2.255", 23.7gr of Varget, CCI BR-4) which will be tried out as an FV250 F T/R load.

If its performance is confirmed under match conditions, I will then attempt to duplicate its performance using the steel cases, recognizing that the starting load should be lower.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Zeroed and confirmed the tested load in the 11VT at 250yd; accuracy in dead calm conditions runs right around 1/2MOA, wind picked up and pushed POI about 3" left and a tad high. Final test was with some 1 1/2" circle targets at 250yd.

Will be trying to duplicate this performance with steel cases starting at around 22gr.

Or..., I may try for a load that's compatible with the Mossberg MVP. The steel case makes for an unmistakable identifier.

Greg

PS, did some SWAG calcs based on weights to fill both cases, and using that ratio as a factor to pick test charge weights. Made up ten each at 21.8, 22.0, 22.2, and 22.4gr. Will test for dispersion and similar POI at 100yd without altering scope dope (the rifle is zeroed right on at 250yd).

Best of this test will be tried in the Mossberg MVP, and adjusted if necessary; but only to achieve a moderately good dispersion. Even if it's not an absolute sweetheart load, I'll take anything that shoots minute of Honeydew at 250yd. An MVP Predator that will do that at 250yd is a keeper.

Testing to follow sometime after Tuesday.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Load testing yesterday (Saturday) using Factory primed steel cases in various rifles of mine indicated that the HDY 75gr HPBTM groups tightest at 100yd with charges in the 22.0-22.2gr Varget range. While the accuracy was good, these loads will cycle and feed, but will not lock back the bolt carrier on my AR lower with the Carbine length buffer assembly. At 22.4gr, the carrier locked back less than 50% of the time. Primers showed normal flattening, so there may be some leeway to test for a higher node above 22.4gr if AR usage is needed, but I'm not going there and I'm not recommending it to others. The loads were tested superficially for function and accuracy in the Savage 11VT, Mossberg MVP, Stag Model 6, and the same lower with a CMMG 16 Bull WASP upper. At this point I can't make any conclusive statements about the loads.

 

[rduckwor]

Greg:

Forgive me for not re-reading the whole thread, but some questions:

1. How many load cycles are you subjecting the steel cases to for testing purposes?

2. What primers did you utilize for the AR 15 run?

Thanks,

 

[biffj]

I'm not greg and not loading for an AR but I can say that my friend who loads the steel .223 cases for his MM23 machinegun is loading cases 3-5 times before they get dinged up enough from ejection to no longer be useable. I've not yet worn out any of the steel .45 auto cases I've been loading. I toss them when the laquer or polymer coating wears off and so far that seems to be 15-20 shots per case.

Frank

 

[rduckwor]

Frank:

Good Info.

Thanks,

 

[Greg Langelius *]

1. How many load cycles are you subjecting the steel cases to for testing purposes?

I am up to three, as this is not my primary load development project at this time.

2. What primers did you utilize for the AR 15 run?

If the load is intended for match purposes, I use CCR BR-4; otherwise, I use CCI 400.

 

[rduckwor]

I am up to three, as this is not my primary load development project at this time.



If the load is intended for match purposes, I use CCR BR-4; otherwise, I use CCI 400.

Thanks. Any concerns about wear and tear on your sizing dies when resizing steel cases?

Interesting work and very worthwhile.

Thank you.

 

[biffj]

Thanks. Any concerns about wear and tear on your sizing dies when resizing steel cases?

Interesting work and very worthwhile.

Thank you.

Once again, since the cases are coated with polymer or laquer the steel never touches the dies. This means no more wear and tear than with a brass case. In realty the coating is softer than brass so it should be less wear. Using good lube will prevent you from wearing the coating off.
Having said all that here is something new. I am reloading steel cases for a small cannon. I only size the necks since the remainder of the case doesn't really expand. The coating on them is black oxide or gunblue. When fired the necks expand quite a lot and need to be reduced for the next shot. I am using a die I made from mild steel to resize them using normal sizing lube. I have to use a hydraulic press to do this. After sizing 10 cases 4 times ea I see no wear on my die and the gunblue on the cases is undamaged.....they're still black. Admittedly this isn't thousands of rounds but is also not a lowfriction polymer coating on the cases. If I'm not wearing gunbluing off then how much wear should I expect to the chamber or die?

People have this idea that steel is some evil dangerous substance that will destroy whatever it touches but its not. Your rifle barrel, bolt and most of the rest of the parts are hardened and heat treated. The cartridge cases are soft steel. If you rub a piece of chalk on the sidewalk which one wears away? If you take a file to a lawnmower blade which one is removed? The harder material is normally untouched by the softer and soft steel cartridge cases are no more wearing then brass when they have some sort of coating to prevent direct contact.

OK, last thing here. The German MP43 series of assault rifles were intended to use steel cased ammo from the get go. Brass used up too much strategic material and steel was much cheaper and more available. The germans did extensive testing with steel cases and determined that the only reason brass was more useable as a cartridge case was because it took less work to make the cases. They went to steel cases in their full sized rifles and machineguns as well. In any case there were thousands of the MP43 series guns imported into the US from post WWII til the mid 60's. With the gun control act of 1968 import stopped and any guns that were here had to be registered. Quite a few were. It was legal to repair the ones that were imported as DeWaTs and I have done a goodly number of them. In doing all this work on the guns I've checked the headspace specs on them and found that normal should be about +- .003". What I found was anything from .002" to .020". A lot of the guns were reactivated by unmechanical owners who used dremels or other devices to remove the weld from the chambers. Sometimes the weld itself left pits or divots too. When fired with steel cased ammo this turned out not to be a problem. The steel bridged the dips ,divots and pits. The steel cases handled the long headspace without case head separations as well. Looking at these guns that were used in wartime I was surprised at the good condition of bores and chambers despite all that use with steel cased ammo. Once the brass cased ammo started coming in from Serbia I got more work than I could handle. The brass cases would not handle the pitted chambers, would not handle excess headspace and would stick if the chamber was just a little rough. In real life steel is a great material for cartridge cases.

Frank

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Thanks. Any concerns about wear and tear on your sizing dies when resizing steel cases?

Not really, however, I just screwed the pooch and got a (brass) case stuck in my resizing die.

I simply said 'to heck with it', and ordered a new RCBS FL die set from Amazon Prime; $28 and change and two day shipping for free. I can wait two days to do my reloading, and now I'm starting out with a new set of dies, instead of wrestling the case out of a 20 y/o set.


As of now (or Wednesday at least), I have a Lee case gauge, a Lee Deluxe Quick Trim 223 die and trimmer, the new dies coming in, and a collet bullet pulling die, all set up in toolheads for the Dillon RL550B. There are collets for .224", .264", .284", and .308".

Greg

 

[Kinsman]

Well a flintlock might work, but I never knew anyone to make a percusion cap. If one could, you could make a primer. .

George, there is a device on the market called "Tap-A -Cap" that uses drink can aluminum to form a cup for cap and ball primers. I tried a few in mine, and it worked well enough.
With no anvil in it, it would not work for Boxer, and I do not know if it would fit Berdan holes, but, where there's a will there is a way.