Can anyone please explain why .5 micron is better than the 70nm version?
- Thread starter USMCj
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Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone? </div></div>
My rationale-and it is strickly an opinion. HBN is a ceramic and has a hardness approaching diamond. So to take it from 1 micron to sub-micron is going to take more processing-hence the additional cost.
The patent states the "invention"is to provide a simple but meaningful method of combining the metal of the gun barrel with a fine particulate ceramic, and combining the advantages of both in a synergistic combination."
It also states:"Another object of the present invention is to reduce gun barrel wear by the use of renewable ceramic surfaces"
"The dry ceramic such as boron nitride powder, in sub-micron size, can be manually rolled or burnished into the grain boundaries of a steel barrel or it can burnished by coating a bullet or other ammunition equipment prior to firing the gun,allowing the bullet to do the burnishing when it is fired"
That being said-wouldn't be prudent to use the FINEST product available? And since stainless steel barrels have fewer and smaller pores or "close grain boundaries"(according to the patent holder) wouldn't that ALSO support using the Finest HBN?
The substance is so hard-the particles are only going to get smaller by processing. That 's why I chose the 70nM. Granted the patent says "sub micron" and obviously .5 micron is just that-but 70Nm is substantially smaller. That was my reasoning.
It isn't supported by ANY scientific or anecdotal evidence. I have purchased the 6mm D-tac from Tubb-already treated. So at least I'll be able to at least have something to compare my treatment to. According to 427Cobra, he was advised to get the .5 micron by a Former Naval Person and that the 70Nm product was purchased by mistake-maybe he is correct.
I have studied metallurgy-but don't have a degree in it and I definitely purchased the 70Nm on a wild assed guess. The patent states that testing proved that burnishing the bore with sub micron HBN is effective and indeed fills in the grain boundaries in the barrel steel. So why shouldn't a smaller particle work better?
Further reasoning-The Former Naval Person advised 427Cobra that you could mix HBN with denatured alcohol and use it to lube case necks.Since alcohol does not DISSOLVE ceramics-this concoction would be a "suspension". Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller product?
I figured that it is easy and simple enough to give it a try. Provided a person doesn't loose any time at the range-PRACTICING MARKSMANSHIP- why not give it a try?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone? </div></div>
My rationale-and it is strickly an opinion. HBN is a ceramic and has a hardness approaching diamond. So to take it from 1 micron to sub-micron is going to take more processing-hence the additional cost.
The patent states the "invention"is to provide a simple but meaningful method of combining the metal of the gun barrel with a fine particulate ceramic, and combining the advantages of both in a synergistic combination."
It also states:"Another object of the present invention is to reduce gun barrel wear by the use of renewable ceramic surfaces"
"The dry ceramic such as boron nitride powder, in sub-micron size, can be manually rolled or burnished into the grain boundaries of a steel barrel or it can burnished by coating a bullet or other ammunition equipment prior to firing the gun,allowing the bullet to do the burnishing when it is fired"
That being said-wouldn't be prudent to use the FINEST product available? And since stainless steel barrels have fewer and smaller pores or "close grain boundaries"(according to the patent holder) wouldn't that ALSO support using the Finest HBN?
The substance is so hard-the particles are only going to get smaller by processing. That 's why I chose the 70nM. Granted the patent says "sub micron" and obviously .5 micron is just that-but 70Nm is substantially smaller. That was my reasoning.
It isn't supported by ANY scientific or anecdotal evidence. I have purchased the 6mm D-tac from Tubb-already treated. So at least I'll be able to at least have something to compare my treatment to. According to 427Cobra, he was advised to get the .5 micron by a Former Naval Person and that the 70Nm product was purchased by mistake-maybe he is correct.
I have studied metallurgy-but don't have a degree in it and I definitely purchased the 70Nm on a wild assed guess. The patent states that testing proved that burnishing the bore with sub micron HBN is effective and indeed fills in the grain boundaries in the barrel steel. So why shouldn't a smaller particle work better?
Further reasoning-The Former Naval Person advised 427Cobra that you could mix HBN with denatured alcohol and use it to lube case necks.Since alcohol does not DISSOLVE ceramics-this concoction would be a "suspension". Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller product?
I figured that it is easy and simple enough to give it a try. Provided a person doesn't loose any time at the range-PRACTICING MARKSMANSHIP- why not give it a try?
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
Thanks but I have enough of the 70nm stuff to hold me over for a long time.
Well, Im going to have a go at it and see how it comes out.
Thanks but I have enough of the 70nm stuff to hold me over for a long time.
Well, Im going to have a go at it and see how it comes out.
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
I just degreased some copper coated steel bb's in rubbing alcohol, twice. After drying them I put them in a PB jar with 8 grains on hBN and threw it in the tumbler to coat the bbs.
after an hour, Ill add 6 grains of hBN and 100 7mm 162 A-Max's and tumble it for 3 hours and see what I end up with.
I just degreased some copper coated steel bb's in rubbing alcohol, twice. After drying them I put them in a PB jar with 8 grains on hBN and threw it in the tumbler to coat the bbs.
after an hour, Ill add 6 grains of hBN and 100 7mm 162 A-Max's and tumble it for 3 hours and see what I end up with.
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
the bb's are fully coated now. Im going to add the bullets and 6-7 grains of hBN 70nm and tumble checking it after each hour.
6-7 grains should be enough to coat 100 7mm 162 A-Max's right?
the bb's are fully coated now. Im going to add the bullets and 6-7 grains of hBN 70nm and tumble checking it after each hour.
6-7 grains should be enough to coat 100 7mm 162 A-Max's right?
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
I just finished coating 100 bullets, they came out frosty, after polishing them in a coton sock they look how they should, a bit dull.
Im going to take some coated and uncoated bullets to a friends house who has a lab grade microscope to see if I can tell a difference between the 2 besides the dull finish. Ill try to post some pics.
Im also going to hit the range this week and chrono the same load with coated and uncoated bullets from a clean bore.
I just finished coating 100 bullets, they came out frosty, after polishing them in a coton sock they look how they should, a bit dull.
Im going to take some coated and uncoated bullets to a friends house who has a lab grade microscope to see if I can tell a difference between the 2 besides the dull finish. Ill try to post some pics.
Im also going to hit the range this week and chrono the same load with coated and uncoated bullets from a clean bore.
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
I've coated 100 300SMK's and 50 250 Lock Bases using the 70nM powder,copper coated .177 BB's, and glass peanut butter jars. Tumbled for 1 hour.
Results: Look just like the Tubb Dtacs that I purchased coated. The procedure is stupid easy. Range results will follow.
I've coated 100 300SMK's and 50 250 Lock Bases using the 70nM powder,copper coated .177 BB's, and glass peanut butter jars. Tumbled for 1 hour.
Results: Look just like the Tubb Dtacs that I purchased coated. The procedure is stupid easy. Range results will follow.
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
One thing to keep in mind when you tumble jacketed bullets with steel shot with ANY lube or none at all, to a certain point, you are shot peening the jackets on the bullets. For a very short time, they probably won't do any harm. But if you leave them running a long period it will have the effect of loosening the jacket from the core.
Not bad mouthing what you're doing. Just suggesting to keep a close watch on the timer.
One thing to keep in mind when you tumble jacketed bullets with steel shot with ANY lube or none at all, to a certain point, you are shot peening the jackets on the bullets. For a very short time, they probably won't do any harm. But if you leave them running a long period it will have the effect of loosening the jacket from the core.
Not bad mouthing what you're doing. Just suggesting to keep a close watch on the timer.
Re: HBN coating ??, why is ,5 micron better than 70nm?
Don't need the bb's. Just tumble. JMHO
Don't need the bb's. Just tumble. JMHO
