Re: HD worth the $600 extra??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Narrowed it down on the spotters.
Swaro gets consistently better reviews in the 65mm objective line. Unless there is a review list I am unaware of.
Swaro
Zeiss
Lupy</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cocadori</span></span> -
Something that needs to be taken into consideration is that all "reviews" are somewhat colored by <span style="font-style: italic">user preference</span>, so there is often a fair amount of <span style="font-style: italic">subjective</span> (opinion) in write-ups' than <span style="font-style: italic">objective</span> (facts). There is also the fact that eyesight differs widely from one person to another, so several peope may look through two or more scopes at the same objects and none of them may "see" the same thing(s). Also, most people don't have enough experience with optics or an understanding of how light conditions and manufacturer coatings affect and bias the image (for example, a scope may exhibit a "cooler" [more neutral] color cast while another may exhibit a "warmer" [more colorful] image). I prefer scopes with more natural (neutral) color rendition rather than scopes with overly "warm", over-saturated colors, but YMMV.
The scope with the more neutral image cast may not be what a birdwatcher is interested-in, but that doesn't mean that the scope with the more neutral color cast is less desirable. Birdwatchers' generally want colors to <span style="font-style: italic">"pop"</span>, while shooters generally want the sharpest, brightest image they can get to resolve bullet holes and impacts. These goals aren't mutually-exclusive, but sometimes people prefer one over the other based on <span style="font-style: italic">what they see</span> and what their needs/priorities are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is the $600 extra for the swaro HD worth it. Does it really give you that much more?</div></div>
I've used a Swarovski ATS 65, Swarovski ATM 65 HD, a Zeiss 65T FL, and a Leupold 12-40X60 Gold Ring. Between the Swarovskis', the HD model is the obvious choice because it is clearly (pun intended) the better of of two in sharpness, color rendition, and contrast. Between the Swarovski HD and the Zeiss 65T FL <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I</span></span> would choose the Swarovski, because <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">to me</span></span> the Swarovski HD has better color rendition and contrast.
The Zeiss 65T FL has a slightly brighter image which would normally seem best for the sharpest hole-resolving ability, but the Zeiss's super-bright image can tend to wash-out the image and leave it looking dull in bright conditions. And just in case you are unaware, the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"FL"</span></span> designation in the Zeiss naming scheme stands for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Fluorite"</span></span> crystals.
I find that the Swarovski HD has plenty of color "pop" while still offering awesome resolving power. Maybe thats' because the Swarovski HD models also use Fluorite glass, although Swarovski doesn't make a big deal about the FL glass either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have an opinion on why to go with Zeiss (non tactical) over the swaro?</div></div>
Not really. I sold my previous-generation Angled Zeiss Diascope 65T FL after comparing it to my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">
Optolyth S80 HD Compact</span></span>. The (80mm) Optolyth S80 HD Compact weighs 1 lb. more than the (65mm) Zeiss 65T FL, but it is the same size and has a 20-60X zoom range and a MIL-based Eyepiece option.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Lupy HD really belong in the league with these 3? </div></div>
I've always liked the Leupold Golden Ring 12-40X60 spotting scope - its' compact, rugged, & lightweight, has excellent clarity and a wide magnification range, and it has a Lifetime Warranty. However, I put the Leupold 12-40X60 Golden Ring and it's HD sibling in a different category for two reasons: (1) While the clarity is excellent (especially with the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"HD"</span></span> version), it isn't Zeiss or Swarovski-level), and (2) You can have the Leupold Custom Shop install a Mildot reticle (Army Round Mildot type), a TMR, or a Schmidt & Bender P4F reticle in the FFP. I know that at least one Horus reticle is also available. If your riflescopes don't have sufficient clarity to spot with or you want another reticle on-target the 12-40X60 Leupold spotter is one of only a few FFP reticle-equipped spotters around. Even spotters with fixed magnification, reticle-equipped eyepieces are rare.
If you want a spotting scope with a MIL-based reticle for calling corrections and/or ranging the field is very limited. In the FFP variable field there is the very impressive Zeiss Spotter 60 (with an impressive $5,000.00 price tag to match) and the afore-mentioned Leupold 12-40X60X Golden Ring / Leupold Mark 4 12-40X60 variants. There may be more out there, but I haven't investigated them because the Spotter 60 would be the one I would want, but it is just not feasible or practical for me to buy one.
If you're interested in a spotting scope with awesome clarity and superior color rendition in a compact size <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">with the option of 30X and 45X Wide Angle MIL Reticle Eyepieces,</span></span> read my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"
Optolyth S80 HD Compact Spotting Scope"</span></span> write-up. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">
Optolyth Compacts</span></span> are available in both "Straight" and "Angled" models in both HD (Fluorite glass) and non-HD versions. The rotating reticle is awesome, and AFAIK unique to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">
Optolyth</span></span>. The kicker is that <span style="font-style: italic">with Eyepieces attached to their respective scopes</span> the 80mm Optolyth Compacts are no longer than the 65mm Zeiss (the Optolyth 80mm Compacts are actually shorter than the 65mm Swarovskis') as well as being much shorter and a little lighter than both the Zeiss 85mm and Swarovski 80mm scopes.
Keith
