Heartbeat Control
- Thread starter Street_Doc
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Re: Heartbeat Control
Under what conditions are you noticing this? Shooting postion, target distance, scope power/magnification?
Are you trying to learn to shoot between beats, or just stop the slight movement altogether?
Under what conditions are you noticing this? Shooting postion, target distance, scope power/magnification?
Are you trying to learn to shoot between beats, or just stop the slight movement altogether?
Re: Heartbeat Control
Stop squeezing so tight... you're using too much grip. They may call it a grip but really they mean hold.
Stop squeezing so tight... you're using too much grip. They may call it a grip but really they mean hold.
Re: Heartbeat Control
I will say this..contrary to what I have observed with a lot of match shooters..the tighter I hold my M14..the smaller the groups become.
Not suggesting that I'm popping blood vessels, but comparing a free recoil hold vs a tight hold has changed my thought process when shooting that rifle.
I will say this..contrary to what I have observed with a lot of match shooters..the tighter I hold my M14..the smaller the groups become.
Not suggesting that I'm popping blood vessels, but comparing a free recoil hold vs a tight hold has changed my thought process when shooting that rifle.
Re: Heartbeat Control
Don't confuse positional shooting with a sling to shooting prone without and using support, they are two different things.
I agree with Lowlight, relax and let the rifle do the work for you, good NPA, normal breathing (unless doing stress drills), good trigger control and follow thru will get you there. Follow the basics, people struggle behind the gun and it is not that hard to get reasonable groups.
Don't confuse positional shooting with a sling to shooting prone without and using support, they are two different things.
I agree with Lowlight, relax and let the rifle do the work for you, good NPA, normal breathing (unless doing stress drills), good trigger control and follow thru will get you there. Follow the basics, people struggle behind the gun and it is not that hard to get reasonable groups.
Re: Heartbeat Control
with loosening up on the hold with "trigger" hand, and using other hand as "rear rest", this has me thinking the shooter would be under a "sloppier" hold on the shoulder. being kinda like a free recoil technique. is this line of thinking correct? in this situation of loosenin hold, i am picturing prone position with front rest. front rest being a ruck sack or dirt mound etc. if it were a bi pod, then i could see being able to get a good tight fit into the shoulder. does this make sense? or do i sound like a crackhead.
with loosening up on the hold with "trigger" hand, and using other hand as "rear rest", this has me thinking the shooter would be under a "sloppier" hold on the shoulder. being kinda like a free recoil technique. is this line of thinking correct? in this situation of loosenin hold, i am picturing prone position with front rest. front rest being a ruck sack or dirt mound etc. if it were a bi pod, then i could see being able to get a good tight fit into the shoulder. does this make sense? or do i sound like a crackhead.
Re: Heartbeat Control
I have my 700 on a bipod and I have a loose grip on the stock. I have a squeeze bag under the rear of the stock, but it seems like when my cheek comes into contact with the stock, I get the pulsing that's messin' with my groups. I have tried placing a towel between the stock and my cheek and it helps somewhat, but still isn't as solid as I would like.
I qualified as expert in the Marines many years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with the basics. I was just wondering if some of the more advanced or tactical guys run into the same issues. Of course, it's always at high magnification, but I want to see that crosshair on the bull at 200 yds. Thanks for the suggestions thusfar!
I have my 700 on a bipod and I have a loose grip on the stock. I have a squeeze bag under the rear of the stock, but it seems like when my cheek comes into contact with the stock, I get the pulsing that's messin' with my groups. I have tried placing a towel between the stock and my cheek and it helps somewhat, but still isn't as solid as I would like.
I qualified as expert in the Marines many years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with the basics. I was just wondering if some of the more advanced or tactical guys run into the same issues. Of course, it's always at high magnification, but I want to see that crosshair on the bull at 200 yds. Thanks for the suggestions thusfar!
Re: Heartbeat Control
I'm just wondering what instances are you guys seeing your heart beat? shooting prone I have never seen my heart beat effect poa. On the other hand the only time I have is at a match when we were required to shoot from an extremely compromised position that took some work getting into. My heart was racing and because of the position showed thru the scope. Otherwise, in my limited experience I have never seen the heart beat effect anything.
I'm just wondering what instances are you guys seeing your heart beat? shooting prone I have never seen my heart beat effect poa. On the other hand the only time I have is at a match when we were required to shoot from an extremely compromised position that took some work getting into. My heart was racing and because of the position showed thru the scope. Otherwise, in my limited experience I have never seen the heart beat effect anything.
Re: Heartbeat Control
Most people "see" a heartbeat because:
1. They are holding their breath and don't realize it. They may think they are only holding it for a short few seconds, but really, in the context of shooting if they are holding it at all they are wrong. if you follow take a deep breath, let it half way out, hold it, you're wrong.
2. They are putting too much pressure on the rifle, tensing up. There are varying levels of "tight hold" too much and your body shows through, it's balancing act.
I have to admit, I never see my heartbeat, regardless of my position unless I am doing something wrong, then it becomes a "clue" .
Most people "see" a heartbeat because:
1. They are holding their breath and don't realize it. They may think they are only holding it for a short few seconds, but really, in the context of shooting if they are holding it at all they are wrong. if you follow take a deep breath, let it half way out, hold it, you're wrong.
2. They are putting too much pressure on the rifle, tensing up. There are varying levels of "tight hold" too much and your body shows through, it's balancing act.
I have to admit, I never see my heartbeat, regardless of my position unless I am doing something wrong, then it becomes a "clue" .
Re: Heartbeat Control
Anywhere you touch the rifle, your pulse movement can transfer into the rifle.
You can dampen that by 'padding' the areas your skin touches the rifle. Stock pack, gloves, sweatshirt can all help some.
I notice in the winter when I'm shooting with heavy clothing and gloves, I don't notice pulse at all. In summer t-shirt weather, it's more aparent.
Anywhere you touch the rifle, your pulse movement can transfer into the rifle.
You can dampen that by 'padding' the areas your skin touches the rifle. Stock pack, gloves, sweatshirt can all help some.
I notice in the winter when I'm shooting with heavy clothing and gloves, I don't notice pulse at all. In summer t-shirt weather, it's more aparent.
Re: Heartbeat Control
I get it in my hand under the stock, so I wear flight gloves to minimize the pulse. I don't normally see it unless it is really hot and my old fat ass is breathing hard, but when I was younger and even in really good shape I would see it sometimes. Then again we were running or bear crawling from yard line to yard line, depending on how many misses we had.
I get it in my hand under the stock, so I wear flight gloves to minimize the pulse. I don't normally see it unless it is really hot and my old fat ass is breathing hard, but when I was younger and even in really good shape I would see it sometimes. Then again we were running or bear crawling from yard line to yard line, depending on how many misses we had.
Re: Heartbeat Control
The only times that I can recall seeing rifle movement sync'ed to my pulse was when I was using a sling from the sitting or prone position. I was taught to believe this was due to restricted circulation in the bicep where the sling bore against the arm. I combatted this by using a shooting jacket that had padding where the sling was secured. This reduced the constriction in the circulation to a point where heartbeat induced bounce becomes much more tolerable.
These days, with my shoulder/humerus in a state of permanent wreckage, using a sling and engaging in a conventional 'elbow' directly below the rifle' technique is no longer a physical possibility for me. I now only shoot from supported positions. I haven't seen my pulse in the scope in years.
Greg
The only times that I can recall seeing rifle movement sync'ed to my pulse was when I was using a sling from the sitting or prone position. I was taught to believe this was due to restricted circulation in the bicep where the sling bore against the arm. I combatted this by using a shooting jacket that had padding where the sling was secured. This reduced the constriction in the circulation to a point where heartbeat induced bounce becomes much more tolerable.
These days, with my shoulder/humerus in a state of permanent wreckage, using a sling and engaging in a conventional 'elbow' directly below the rifle' technique is no longer a physical possibility for me. I now only shoot from supported positions. I haven't seen my pulse in the scope in years.
Greg
Re: Heartbeat Control
Only time I've seen shooters troubled by pulse is when they are straining a lot, either because the ground or shooting platform isn't level, they are a bit out of shape or-
they are using a very high scope power setting that shows every little twitch so the shooter fights to steady that down.
getting them up to walk it off and dailing down the scope does wonders. So does having them on the rifle so light you could jerk it out from under them.
I have never been successful at forcing a bullet into the bull but I think I have coaxed a few.
I guess my sling supported positional is so bad I am too busy timing my wobble to notice any heart induced twitch.
Only time I've seen shooters troubled by pulse is when they are straining a lot, either because the ground or shooting platform isn't level, they are a bit out of shape or-
they are using a very high scope power setting that shows every little twitch so the shooter fights to steady that down.
getting them up to walk it off and dailing down the scope does wonders. So does having them on the rifle so light you could jerk it out from under them.
I have never been successful at forcing a bullet into the bull but I think I have coaxed a few.
I guess my sling supported positional is so bad I am too busy timing my wobble to notice any heart induced twitch.
Re: Heartbeat Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say this..contrary to what I have observed with a lot of match shooters..the tighter I hold my M14..the smaller the groups become.
Not suggesting that I'm popping blood vessels, but comparing a free recoil hold vs a tight hold has changed my thought process when shooting that rifle. </div></div>
Your rifle is either too heavy, or you mostly shoot unsupported.
Or your groups are shot spaced apart timewise. If you shoot 5 rounds like that, after the second round, you ll start seeing your impacts off the first two. This is akin to holding your breath. First two impacts look good, but if you need to shoot more rounds in a small enough timeframe, muscle stress will impact your performance. Muscle stress due to breath holding or a tight hold on your gun. But again may be you are very fit, and have a good cardiovascular system. Your mileage may vary.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say this..contrary to what I have observed with a lot of match shooters..the tighter I hold my M14..the smaller the groups become.
Not suggesting that I'm popping blood vessels, but comparing a free recoil hold vs a tight hold has changed my thought process when shooting that rifle. </div></div>
Your rifle is either too heavy, or you mostly shoot unsupported.
Or your groups are shot spaced apart timewise. If you shoot 5 rounds like that, after the second round, you ll start seeing your impacts off the first two. This is akin to holding your breath. First two impacts look good, but if you need to shoot more rounds in a small enough timeframe, muscle stress will impact your performance. Muscle stress due to breath holding or a tight hold on your gun. But again may be you are very fit, and have a good cardiovascular system. Your mileage may vary.
Re: Heartbeat Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people "see" a heartbeat because:
1. They are holding their breath and don't realize it. They may think they are only holding it for a short few seconds, but really, in the context of shooting if they are holding it at all they are wrong. if you follow take a deep breath, let it half way out, hold it, you're wrong.
2. They are putting too much pressure on the rifle, tensing up. There are varying levels of "tight hold" too much and your body shows through, it's balancing act.
I have to admit, I never see my heartbeat, regardless of my position unless I am doing something wrong, then it becomes a "clue" . </div></div>
Was under the impression that the shot should come during normal respiratory pause, is this not correct?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people "see" a heartbeat because:
1. They are holding their breath and don't realize it. They may think they are only holding it for a short few seconds, but really, in the context of shooting if they are holding it at all they are wrong. if you follow take a deep breath, let it half way out, hold it, you're wrong.
2. They are putting too much pressure on the rifle, tensing up. There are varying levels of "tight hold" too much and your body shows through, it's balancing act.
I have to admit, I never see my heartbeat, regardless of my position unless I am doing something wrong, then it becomes a "clue" . </div></div>
Was under the impression that the shot should come during normal respiratory pause, is this not correct?
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