Heaviies vs Lights

mdesign

mdesign

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 2, 2004
2,134
10
Nebraska
#1
I am build an Remington 7-08 with a 22" barrel

My question is at what range do the benefits of shooting a heavier bullet really come into play?

For example:

Berger 140 vld has a G1 of .486, a G7 of .249 and maybe a vel of 2800 fps.

Berger 168 vld has a G1 of .617, a G7 of .316 and a velocity of 2600 fps.

Assuming the accuracy is the same, at what point do I start seeing the benefits of the higher BC at a level that really matters in the real world.
 
#2
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

When I was debating on what caliber to run for comps, the 7-08 was one of my top picks. I ran the numbers with all the velocities with different bullets available, mainly planning to use the Berger VLD's. The 168 VLD was the overall best pick for drop and wind drift. It has a high BC, you can push it decently fast, and dropped less than the 180. The 180 you can not get fast enough to look as good as the 168. You also have to seat the bullet very deep into the case eating up case volume, and possibly seating the bullet below the ogive.
Basically, the heavier you go, the more drop you will get, but have less wind drift. The lighter you go, you have less drop but more wind drift. So, the ballance fell right at the 168 VLD bullet. This was based on shooting out to 1K. If you plan on shooting closer ranges, then a lighter bullet would be more beneficial for less drop.
 
#4
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

mdesign,

You'll see the bennies of a higher G7 BC north of 600 yds or so. Under that, the lighter faster load, usually yields more benefits.

YMMV,

Bob
 
#5
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the 162gr AMAXs. It has a very good BC, and in theory, should be able to be pushed faster then the 168s. </div></div>
Yes, the 162 A-max would be a great option.
 
#6
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

Thanks, The primary use of this rifle will be big game hunting and I seldom shoot past 500 yds so I was not sure if heavier was better.

I like the energy/penetration of the heaiver bullets as well as the performance in the wind. Drop can be compensated for if you know how much it is but if all this happens within a few inches of each other, I'll probably go with the heavier bullet.

I also looked at the 162 Amax and will probably try them as well. I like Hornady products (mostly) but I have seen lot to lot variation in their bullets that effected accuracy so was going to give the Bergers a try out of the gate. I wish Berger offered something between the 140 and 168 but they don't.
 
#7
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

Mdesign,

While pondering your question as the merits of light v heavy, I ran a JBM table just to see for myself.

@ 600 yds 140 gr 7mm Berger VLD 1.3 MILS in a 10 MPH wind
@ 600 yds 162 gr A-MAX 1.2 MILS in a 10 MPH wind


That's called the margin of error, or pick em....

Hard to go too far wrong, either way.
 
#8
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

In my 22" 7-08's,the 162A-Max is pushed to 2700fps easily,via '15 and Lapua hulls.

Nothing slips conditions as they do,nor brings the freight. That bullet rates building a rifle around.
 
#9
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

Oil - Lapua hulls...what did you do, neck down 308 brass? How much RL15 are you using?

Another advantage with the 162 Amax is that they cost less although Hornady has been going up in price.
 
#11
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oil - Lapua hulls...what did you do, neck down 308 brass? How much RL15 are you using?

Another advantage with the 162 Amax is that they cost less although Hornady has been going up in price. </div></div>

I scored 5,000 of the 162's,the last time Midway blew them out.

I gun moly,so my data won't do you any good. Can like resized Lapua hulls in some generous SAAMI chambers especially(decreases neck clearance),though I slum it in some of my good ones too.

Though I do dig the 120V-Max/TSX melding.
 
#13
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, The primary use of this rifle will be big game hunting and I seldom shoot past 500 yds so I was not sure if heavier was better.

I like the energy/penetration of the heaiver bullets as well as the performance in the wind. Drop can be compensated for if you know how much it is but if all this happens within a few inches of each other, I'll probably go with the heavier bullet.

I also looked at the 162 Amax and will probably try them as well. I like Hornady products (mostly) but I have seen lot to lot variation in their bullets that effected accuracy so was going to give the Bergers a try out of the gate. I wish Berger offered something between the 140 and 168 but they don't. </div></div>

why use match projectiles? Which often do not perform consistently and the performance of which are not related to the weight. I would be using a projectile made for this, which is likely to perform well over a reasonable velocity range.
 
#14
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

I'm ALL ears in regards to the "shortcomings" you've suffered in the firsthand,regarding the 162's terminal affects.

Bergers suck and the SMK sucks more,but that 162 is a whole 'nother animal.
 
#15
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

I'm "ALL ears" in regards to why a match projectile performs better than a "hunting" projectile over a wide velocity range.


I'm not "ALL ears" to guys wasting time going from thread to thread picking crap even if they are wrong
wink.gif
 
#16
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

Let's do it this way. How many 162A-Max have you inserted into critters? Which chamberings,launch/impact velocities and your thoughts on those terminal affects?

Everyone knows I'm an X Slut,though I do shoot an openmind,often and less bias.

Your premise is substantiated by reading,mine by bloodspill and I'm rather comfy in those extrapolations.
 
#17
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergers suck and the SMK sucks more.... </div></div>

I'm kind of curious about this comment. If you can't get a SMK to shoot, you have something wrong with you. And the Bergers are a very good bullet. So, this comment leads me to near troll comment.
 
#18
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergers suck and the SMK sucks more.... </div></div>

I'm kind of curious about this comment. If you can't get a SMK to shoot, you have something wrong with you. And the Bergers are a very good bullet. So, this comment leads me to near troll comment. </div></div>

Troll is about dead on. No substantiation, just the proclamation of wisdom that people are supposed to take as gospel.

From reading the whole thread and several others where this is discussed, it seems that he's saying that for a hunting bullet the Berger and SMK's are poor performers and the Amax is an excellent choice.

Nothing that many of us haven't figured out already.
 
#20
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's do it this way. How many 162A-Max have you inserted into critters? Which chamberings,launch/impact velocities and your thoughts on those terminal affects?

Everyone knows I'm an X Slut,though I do shoot an openmind,often and less bias.

Your premise is substantiated by reading,mine by bloodspill and I'm rather comfy in those extrapolations. </div></div>

It's worth those of us who are not banned (over and over) to take note that this individual was not able to support what he was saying and attempted to put the onus back on the individual he was trying to troll. A very common method which is used in cases where people can't support what they want to argue. Deflect from having to provide input and force others to run around. Maybe this guy was able to hit a few nails on the head, maybe he knew something from time to time but nothing I saw posted by him was worth the idiotic behaviour. Repeated bans and comming back for more indicates some real "life" issues. Let's hope he is able to get some help and start providing consistently useful input without the errors and abuse.

Most good trolls know a bit and are able to divide a community. Google "Rod Speed" if your interested in one of the "best" and a perfect example of this sort of behaviour.
 
#21
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

I see no problem with the statement you quoted form him. Its based in real life experience on his part. Very few will ever take the numbers of animals he already has, nor will they do it at the ranges or in the environments that he does. The premise he is speaking of is to choose the bullet for a specific caliber and build the gun around it. 162Amaxs, the bullet in question, wins in most all comparisons for the 284 caliber race. Its very slick, good all around weight, and found and purchased easily at alot of stores and online shops, not to mention its a little more than half the price of the next bullet it competes with.

Now a number of people are misguided in thinking that you can't hunt with match bullets, and by all means if you want to limit yourself to hunting only bullets, have at it. But many many professional hunters have used with great success and very low failure rates Amaxes and SMK's. It only takes the use of the search function to find such stories.

Its also a very well known fact that the bullet matters alot less than the shot placement.

To sum it up, I find most of the new and unwashed to take offence to almost and suggestion that doesn't stroke their ego and give then that warm/fuzzy. The lack of thick skin and open mindedness will really hamper most if they really wish to learn from the best.
 
#22
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bergers suck and the SMK sucks more,but that 162 is a whole 'nother animal. </div></div>

What problems have you seen with Bergers? I haven't killed anything with one yet, but plan to use some 130's in 6.5 to kill some deer.
 
#23
Re: Heaviies vs Lights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's do it this way. How many 162A-Max have you inserted into critters? Which chamberings,launch/impact velocities and your thoughts on those terminal affects?

Everyone knows I'm an X Slut,though I do shoot an openmind,often and less bias.

Your premise is substantiated by reading,mine by bloodspill and I'm rather comfy in those extrapolations. </div></div>

It's worth those of us who are not banned (over and over) to take note that this individual was not able to support what he was saying and attempted to put the onus back on the individual he was trying to troll. A very common method which is used in cases where people can't support what they want to argue. Deflect from having to provide input and force others to run around. Maybe this guy was able to hit a few nails on the head, maybe he knew something from time to time but nothing I saw posted by him was worth the idiotic behaviour. Repeated bans and comming back for more indicates some real "life" issues. Let's hope he is able to get some help and start providing consistently useful input without the errors and abuse.

Most good trolls know a bit and are able to divide a community. Google "Rod Speed" if your interested in one of the "best" and a perfect example of this sort of behaviour.

</div></div>

Good call to refrain bullet speak in the firsthand.(understatement)
 
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