Heavy 223 load help

DisplacedTexan

DisplacedTexan

Ornery Master Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Oct 13, 2014
    1,112
    374
    Milton, FL
    #1
    I've been trying to get 80 ELDMs to work in my 24", 1-7 Twist .223 Rem and I cannot get them to work, though several of my friends seem to love them (also in 223)

    Has anyone been able to get them to work with AR-COMP, Varget, 8208 or some other temp insensitive powder? Not interested in using temp sensitive powders like RL15, AA, or Ramshot TAC.

    Ordered 80 SMKs and 75 ELDMs to try as well. I've always had better luck with Sierra personally, but I really want the Hornadys to work because of the price and BC.

    Any and all replies appreciated.
     
    #2
    I'm kind of heading down the same path... 24", 1-7 tw .223 Rem. I've got a couple boxes of 80 ELD-Ms on the bench. For me, I don't think that 80gn anything is going to work from the magazine, even in a bolt gun. Maybe I'll be surprised. Figure I can always run the 80+ gn bullets thru my dedicated F/TR rifles set up for single load.
     
    #3
    Using the 80 ELD with 1/8 twist and 5.56 data in a Wylde chamber. I know you said no temp sensitive but the manufacturer insists Tac is temp insensitive and used by the military as well.

    Anyway, using the 80 with Tac with hand feeding. Getting wonderful groups from my WOA Varmint upper.
     
    #4
    I load the 80elds with AR Comp. Settled on 22.5gr, 0.010" off the lands. 2810fps, 6-8sd, 15-20es and <.5". Good enough for me. I can push them faster and 24.3gr @ 3015fps looked promising but I dont see the need to push it that fast for the distances I shoot the 223.

    SMK 80 with 22.2gr of AR comp groups even better with lower sd/es but its only @2750fps which is still good for what I do.

    I shot both loads at 800 and had higher hit% with 80eld so I'm going with that. Hope this helps
     
    #9
    Try N140 and RL17 with the 80g SMKs. I have a couple loads with them. I use one for PRS, and the other for F-Class.

    .3-.4" with the RL17 loads (80g SMK) <-----More velocity, but groups aren't as tight.
    .2-.3" with the N-140 loads (80g SMK) <-----Less velocity, but super tight groups.

    Find the seating depth and charges weight that work for you.
     
    #10
    24.5grs of XBR under a 75gr ELDM has worked for me (this is close to max, so reduce and work up). I get 2960fps with NT/Lapua brass and BR-4's. Tikka T-3X Varmint, 24" bbl.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: 260284
    #11
    Why is your opinion that RE-15 is particularly temperature sensitive?

    RE-15 is a WONDERFUL powder with heavy .223, and it is at the ideal burn rate for 77's and 80's. Varget is a shade better with 65-75.

    What else is going on with the load?

    Does the rifle shoot anything really well? Factory ammo been tested as a benchmark?

    If you just HAVE to go fasssssst, then none of those powders are what you need. You "need" Alliant Power Pro 2000 MR. I use quotations simply because the 80s in .223 don't really need to be pushed hard to shoot really well out to 6-800 yards.

    If you want to go further than 600, you needed a longer barrel (a lot longer), or you needed to be set up for 90's (which I do not really recommend, from experience).

    -Nate
     
    #12
    milanuk said:
    For me, I don't think that 80gn anything is going to work from the magazine, even in a bolt gun. Maybe I'll be surprised.
    Click to expand...

    You will be. Bolt guns is longgggg in the magazine usually, and the .223 chambers uses by the commercial types are only medium freebore (like a NATO, or a Wylde) at best.

    Just watch your bearing surface in the neck. .223 doesn't have a lot of room there. Would'a been better if they'd kept the longer neck of the .222, and just changed the body of the casing. Oh. And made it 25 to 30-degrees.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Geno C.
    #13
    AB0B5624-C516-4321-8488-BE404DDE6514.jpeg
    This is an 80vld set to touch in a .100” freebore. They fit just fine in a bolt action mag.

    I run Varget in mine, it’s an AI version though, and they’re very accurate.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Tx_Aggie
    #14
    Geno C. said:
    View attachment 6961293This is an 80vld set to touch in a .100” freebore. They fit just fine in a bolt action mag.

    I run Varget in mine, it’s an AI version though, and they’re very accurate.
    Click to expand...
    Did you bevel the inside of the plastic mag insert lips? from the picture it appears so, and I was wondering if this was done due to the AI'ed case's straight body. I had issues getting a .20 Tac to feed, but never mod'ed the mags (just lived with it as a single feeder). It seemed the straight body of the .20 Tactical was causing issues, so I am curious if you ran into the same thing with you .223AI?
     
    #15
    I just notched the front to clear the bullets. It feeds pretty good. Every once in a while I’ll get one that hangs up and I have to double pump the bolt but it’s not too bad.
     
    #18
    Not all AM mags are the same either. I have some older ones, and another shooter at our range has some newer ones. There's clearly some differences/changes that have been made to the polymer inserts over the years...
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Geno C.
    #20
    milanuk said:
    I'm kind of heading down the same path... 24", 1-7 tw .223 Rem. I've got a couple boxes of 80 ELD-Ms on the bench. For me, I don't think that 80gn anything is going to work from the magazine, even in a bolt gun. Maybe I'll be surprised. Figure I can always run the 80+ gn bullets thru my dedicated F/TR rifles set up for single load.
    Click to expand...

    ^^^ This. I have tried the 80 grain and even the 75 grain ELDM and they will not work from a magazine. If you want to single load you may be fine as I haven’t tried that. I’m not real big on single loading so I didn’t even try to make it work. I just stuck with the 73g eldm and 77g SMK’s. I ran the ballistics and the difference in proformance just wasn’t worth it.
     
    #21
    Eoddave27 said:
    ^^^ This. I have tried the 80 grain and even the 75 grain ELDM and they will not work from a magazine. If you want to single load you may be fine as I haven’t tried that. I’m not real big on single loading so I didn’t even try to make it work. I just stuck with the 73g eldm and 77g SMK’s. I ran the ballistics and the difference in proformance just wasn’t worth it.
    Click to expand...

    I dont know what bolt gun mags you tried 75 and 80 ELD's in that didnt work but it would be news to me. Ive been running 75 ELD's and 80 Amax and 80 ELD's in 4 different 26" 223 barrels on a Bighorn TL3 in both an MPA and XLR chassis with Accurate, AICS and MDT magazines with more than enough room. They run out to about 2.55" and I hit the lands in my .223 Wylde chambers around 2.51 and 80's around 2.52...

    26" .223 Rem Match MW 75 ELD-M






    80 Amax / Varget

     
    • Like
    Reactions: 260284, Tx_Aggie and Geno C.
    #22
    padom said:
    I dont know what bolt gun mags you tried 75 and 80 ELD's in that didnt work but it would be news to me. Ive been running 75 ELD's and 80 Amax and 80 ELD's in 4 different 26" 223 barrels on a Bighorn TL3 in both an MPA and XLR chassis with Accurate, AICS and MDT magazines with more than enough room. They run out to about 2.55" and I hit the lands in my .223 Wylde chambers around 2.51 and 80's around 2.52...

    26" .223 Rem Match MW 75 ELD-M






    80 Amax / Varget

    Click to expand...


    The bolt 223 I have uses AR15 magazines which I’m sure have a lot less length available. My plan is eventually drop the barreled action into a MDT chassis. It sound s like the new magazines that system uses will give me more options for heavier bullets.
     
    #23
    Eoddave27 said:
    The bolt 223 I have uses AR15 magazines which I’m sure have a lot less length available. My plan is eventually drop the barreled action into a MDT chassis. It sound s like the new magazines that system uses will give me more options for heavier bullets.
    Click to expand...

    Well that would explain it. Even the longest, unmodified AR15 223 mags only allow a COAL to about 2.31". Your limiting yourself of all the benefits of a 223 bolt running AR15 style mags. Drop that thing into something that takes AICS pattern mags and youll be ready to go.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: 260284 and Geno C.
    #24
    padom said:
    Well that would explain it. Even the longest, unmodified AR15 223 mags only allow a COAL to about 2.31". Your limiting yourself of all the benefits of a 223 bolt running AR15 style mags. Drop that thing into something that takes AICS pattern mags and youll be ready to go.
    Click to expand...

    It’s the next item on my want list. The plan is to put it in a MDT ESS chassis. It also needs a better optic. I really need to get that money tree in my back yard to start producing!
     
    #28
    natdscott said:
    Huh.

    My match mags are CProducts Stainless. I guess I'll hafta looksee. I've kept my rounds under 2.260", and actually they don't necessarily shoot better longer, but I guess I never bothered to measure just HOW long I could go.
    Click to expand...

    Depends what your loading/shooting. 77smk shoot best for me right around 2.25....73 ELD shoot best around 2.275"
     
    #29
    Concur. My 77 SMK load is currently 2.237-2.242", depending on sort. Tightest mag load I have ever had the pleasure of running, and does so despite a jump of at, or very close to, 1/4" to reach the lands.

    If it's good for 14X cleans at 300, I don't think I need to try much else for now.
     
    #31
    milanuk said:
    Depends... is that on an SR-3, or a MR-63F? ;)
    Click to expand...

    Fair point. That 14X clean was on the MR-63 target, and it shot a 12X clean a couple weeks prior on the SR-3.

    Does it count that the same load put 9 rounds (from mag) in about 5" tall x 2" wide at 600 yards later in the day? In about 20 seconds?


    ;)

    -Nate
     
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Similar threads

    N_Turs
    Low Recoil AR Load
    Replies
    34
    Views
    989
    N_Turs
    N_Turs
    M
    Brand New to Reloading: 7PRC Load Development
    Replies
    10
    Views
    350
    Kaldor
    K
    Chauncymayne
    Short .223 Bolt Gun & N133
    Replies
    8
    Views
    588
    Redfisher60
    R
    Rodney65
    Bullet and powder advice for 1:8 .223 for target/coyote shooting
    Replies
    57
    Views
    3K
    Pharmseller
    Pharmseller
    ZA206
    Opinions on VV N540 powder for 223/5.56 hand loads?
    Replies
    28
    Views
    2K
    03machstock
    0
    Top Bottom
    Back
    Home
    Forums
    Merch
    Alerts