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Heisman

M

mpmilton

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 27, 2011
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Prattville, AL
Who do you like for the Heisman and why?

I have Richardson but I am a little biased. I think Luck is a good QB but he just doesn't have a wow factor to me. And it just pisses me off Keenum is even allowed in this conversation but it looks like he's about to get the boot from this conversation and rightfully so.
 
Re: Heisman

I don't know if you watched the Baylor game last night. RG3 told the reporter after the game that Baylor had just won it's first Heisman trophy.

I think the voters will disagree.
 
Re: Heisman

I would like to see Richardson win it, but I think the powers that be has Luck on the brain. Heck, they were talking about him winning it before he took a snap this season. If Richardson wins it, I would be VERY surprised.

Luck is a good quarterback, but the best in the country???? I don't feel that he is the overall best, but he is good QB. I look at what a player has done and what teams he has done it against. I just don't think the level of competition was there for them this season. Two of their wins (to unranked teams mind you) were very close and could have easily went in the other direction.
 
Re: Heisman

The reason Richardson won't win it:

SEC

The 2009 season saw Alabama claim the national title and the Heisman.
The 2010 season saw Auburn claim the national title and the Heisman.
The 2011 season will see (most likely) either LSU or Alabama win the national championship.
While I would love nothing better than having the Heisman in Alabama three consecutive years, I don't really see the Heisman folks putting it in the SEC again this year. It would start to look like it was an SEC only trophy.
 
Re: Heisman

Im afraid of that as well. I like RG3 too and I think he will end up number two. The thing with Ball is it's too little too late. As if what he has done is little. But this is a media award and he hasn't had the attention all year as others has. Like already said, some anointed Luck the winner before he took a snap.
 
Re: Heisman

It should be Richardson...he's earned it.
It should be Luck...he's earned it.

No one else has a chance. RGIII is a highlight reel candidate. He only has those numbers because of where and who he plays. He'd never do that in a better conference.
 
Re: Heisman

Montee Ball hands down..the guy is a <span style="text-decoration: line-through">sophomore</span> junior and he is getting close to breaking the single season TD record by sanders
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ThorUSMC3209</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Montee Ball hands down..the guy is a sophomore and he is getting close to breaking the single season TD record by sanders </div></div>

Nice to see someone else of sane mind chime in on this thread!

But like whats been said... The Heisman is now more than ever, a "media" accolade

Ron Dayne won it in '99.......... Shit, Ball should be a shoe-in!!!

and if I hear "strength of schedule" one more time... I'm gonna puke!
 
Re: Heisman

For any moron who puts Mathieu over Richardson

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XK88HZ63ie0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XK88HZ63ie0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Heisman

Honey badger takes what Honey badger wants!!!!!!!!!!

Just picking. I would have to say rg3. For the nay sayers, look at what baylor was before him, and watch what happens when he leaves.
 
Re: Heisman

I think you Alabama guys are way too biased with Richardson. I can't see how you can vote for Richardson over Montee Ball:

Rushing Touches Yds Yds Per Carry TD
Montee Ball 275 1,759 6.4 32
Richardson 263 1,583 6.0 20

Receiving Catches Yds Yds per Catch TD
Montee Ball 20 255 12.8 6
Richardson 27 327 12.1 3

I mean even LaMichael James I think was better than Richardson:

Rushing Touches Yds Yds Per Carry TD
James 222 1,646 7.4 17

I think you can argue slightly that James has an easier conference but they had some tough games. Don't think you can argue that Ball had it easier because B1G has some decent defenses. Both teams played good teams and both played some pretty bad teams.
 
Re: Heisman

Strength of schedule aside, I'd be content with either one winning. Even comparing running backs is apples to oranges. Richardson is far more physical and powerful and Ball is more shifty and faster. Both are amazing running backs. Their stats are fairly similar except for TDs. But its not a stat award. Like I said, I would be content with either one winning. Too hard to compare.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony20031</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you Alabama guys are way too biased with Richardson. I can't see how you can vote for Richardson over Montee Ball:

Rushing Touches Yds Yds Per Carry TD
Montee Ball 275 1,759 6.4 32
Richardson 263 1,583 6.0 20

Receiving Catches Yds Yds per Catch TD
Montee Ball 20 255 12.8 6
Richardson 27 327 12.1 3

I mean even LaMichael James I think was better than Richardson:

Rushing Touches Yds Yds Per Carry TD
James 222 1,646 7.4 17

I think you can argue slightly that James has an easier conference but they had some tough games. Don't think you can argue that Ball had it easier because B1G has some decent defenses. Both teams played good teams and both played some pretty bad teams. </div></div>

Exactly
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mpmilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strength of schedule aside, I'd be content with either one winning. Even comparing running backs is apples to oranges. Richardson is far more physical and powerful and Ball is more shifty and faster. Both are amazing running backs. Their stats are fairly similar except for TDs. But its not a stat award. Like I said, I would be content with either one winning. Too hard to compare. </div></div>

Understandable and I am not saying that Ball is a ton better than Richardson. I just think that if you are voting on the Heisman that fact that Ball beat Richardson in nearly every single category and especially in the Yds Per Carry, Yds per Catch and also had more total TDs (38 to 23) by a far margin if you are going to give it to one of the two it should go to Ball.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No one else has a chance. RGIII is a highlight reel candidate. He only has those numbers because of where and who he plays. He'd never do that in a better conference.</div></div>

and the Pac 12 or Big 10 is tougher than the Big 12? No way.

From top to bottom the Big 12 was the toughest conference this year. The SEC is better respected in the top end but that's it.

Unbiased computers agree with me.
grin.gif
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coach4christ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate to say that the entire western conference in the sec would dominate the big 12</div></div>

that is ludicrous.
 
Re: Heisman

Richardson won the Doak Walker award hopefully that will carry over to the Heisman, but with all the talk of RGIII I think he will win. I doubt it will be Luck or Ball, Luck lost a lot of steam losing to Oregon. Ball had great stats but UNLV, Purdue, Oregon state, Northern Illinois, South Dakota, Indiana and Minnesota aren't known for being tough defenses and he had a lot of his TDs against those teams. So some might think those stats came from less than stellar opponents.

RGIII
Richardson
Luck
Ball
Mathieu

That is the order I think they will be in.
 
Re: Heisman

The reason I made my point is that the Big 12 or 10 or whatever it is now days is all offense and no defense. The teams also historically shy away from big nonconference games. Name a big time program that one has played and won. Texas is bad, A&M is worse, who knows about Oklahom, (they get in a big game and loose every time), ok state is ok ( no defense) that leaves who Baylor, Really. My wife gaduated from Baylor. Historically they are a joke. Yes they did have a good year, but who did they beat?
 
Re: Heisman

Another question, would the teams in the big 12 want LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn in their conference? Think not. Texas would be shown as a mediocre team. Oaklahoma would probably drop out and join the wac.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coach4christ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I made my point is that the Big 12 or 10 or whatever it is now days is all offense and no defense. The teams also historically shy away from big nonconference games. Name a big time program that one has played and won. Texas is bad, A&M is worse, who knows about Oklahom, (they get in a big game and loose every time), ok state is ok ( no defense) that leaves who Baylor, Really. My wife gaduated from Baylor. Historically they are a joke. Yes they did have a good year, but who did they beat?</div></div>

It is obvious you are an SEC homer and only watch SEC football. All year long all the computers ranked the Big 12 as the best conference from top to bottom.

Arkansas, the SEC's 3rd best team had to score 24 points in the second half (ON A NEUTRAL FIELD) to beat Texas A&M, even then they barely won. Texas A&M finished 6-6 overall and 4-5 in the Big 12. (finished 7 out of the 10 teams). So don't talk to me about how all the SEC would beat every Big 12 team. Wouldn't happen.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coach4christ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another question, would the teams in the big 12 want LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn in their conference? Think not. Texas would be shown as a mediocre team. Oaklahoma would probably drop out and join the wac.</div></div>

Did you even watch the LSU vs WVU game. West Virginia has mediocre talent and a first year coach installing a new system and racked up impressive offensive numbers against the LSU defense.

Did you ever think for one minute that if the SEC played offenses like is present in the Big 12 they wouldn't look so good. Yes the SEC has good defenses, but as a whole, offense's in the SEC are sub-par thus helping make your defenses look better.

Go ahead and spew your SEC love talk....the majority of fans outside of SEC country see through your blind love of the conference.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes the SEC has good defenses, but as a whole, offense's in the SEC are sub-par thus helping make your defenses look better.</div></div>
I don't know if I would go that far. You must remember that LSU had a good quarterback a few years back. I think it was 1972.
grin.gif
 
Re: Heisman

If the SEC offenses make their defenses look good, then the Big 12 defenses make their offenses look good.
 
Re: Heisman

As I have said elsewhere, it is just two different theories on how to play football. One theory is to completely outscore your opponent by scoring faster than they can (i.e. high-powered passing offenses). The other theory is to have a defense so strong that no team can score on you.

Both theories have merit. This debate will always be there.....it's the unstoppable force vs. immovable object debate.

Since I'm born and raise in the heart of the SEC (yep...I'm biased even though I lived in Tulsa for over 6 years), I feel a fantastic defense is more important than a fantastic offense. Does it make for more "boring" games? Perhaps, if you like high-powered offenses.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Knife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the SEC offenses make their defenses look good, then the Big 12 defenses make their offenses look good. </div></div>

thus the reason the argument should be settled on the field instead of allowing two teams from the same conference to play in the championship game when they already played each other and one didn't win their conference.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Knife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Richardson won the Doak Walker award hopefully that will carry over to the Heisman, but with all the talk of RGIII I think he will win. I doubt it will be Luck or Ball, Luck lost a lot of steam losing to Oregon. Ball had great stats but UNLV, Purdue, Oregon state, Northern Illinois, South Dakota, Indiana and Minnesota aren't known for being tough defenses and he had a lot of his TDs against those teams. So some might think those stats came from less than stellar opponents.

RGIII
Richardson
Luck
Ball
Mathieu

That is the order I think they will be in. </div></div>

Actually you are incorrect. Some of Ball's best games were against good teams unlike Richardson. Richardson scored the majority of his TDs against Kent State, North Texas and Ole Miss. On the other hand Ball got 4 TDs against Nebraska, Penn State and Michigan State (actually 6 versus Michigan State in 2 games...they are one of the best defenses in NCAA). Michigan State and Penn State were both top 10 defenses this year.

You talk about how Ball played against weak defenses but so did Alabama this year. Kent State, North Texas, Ole Miss, Georgia Southern, Auburn. Looking at the schedules Richardson may have a teeny teeny bit harder schedule but not by much and when comapring how they played against top defenses, Ball was better.

Let's look at the only tema they both played which also happened to have one of the best defenses in the country, Penn State.

Ball 25 carries 156 yds 6.2 yds per carry and 4 TDs
Richardson 26 carries 111 yds 4.3 yds per carry and 2 TDs
 
Re: Heisman

Anthony you are correct, I was only saying how the voters might look at it. I am not taking anything away from Ball he is a great back. He just isn't getting the credit for whatever reason. Like I said earlier I think RGIII will get it.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Knife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anthony you are correct, I was only saying how the voters might look at it. I am not taking anything away from Ball he is a great back. He just isn't getting the credit for whatever reason. Like I said earlier I think RGIII will get it. </div></div>

Some analysts were talking about his lack of popularity of getting the heisman and they seem to think he was just not even considered before the season to be in the discussion. Even then it wasn't until halfway through the season where people realized how good he was. Just seems like the lack of preseason attention and hype really hurt him. Wisconsin should have pushed him harder before the season.
 
Re: Heisman

Say what you want. LSU went undefeated (The only one), beat 8 ranked teams out of 13 games (5 on the road)and for the 6th time in a row an SEC team will be playing for the National Championship, actually two will be. If the SEC is so easy, how come they keep going to the big dance each year and winning?

#3 Oregon- Beat 'em
#25 Mississippi State- Beat 'em
#16 West Virginia- Beat 'em
#17 Florida- Beat 'em
#19 Auburn- Beat 'em
#2 Alabama- Beat 'em
#3 Arkansas- Beat 'em
#12 Georgia- Beat 'em

And 6 of those ranked teams are also in the SEC. It takes offense and defense to play in the SEC.
 
Re: Heisman

You're numbers are so off it isn't funny.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RStewart</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say what you want. LSU went undefeated (The only one), beat 8 ranked teams out of 13 games (5 on the road)and for the 6th time in a row an SEC team will be playing for the National Championship, actually two will be. If the SEC is so easy, how come they keep going to the big dance each year and winning?

#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">5</span>Oregon- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">25</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated </span>Mississippi State- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">16</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">23</span>West Virginia- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">17</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated</span> Florida- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">19</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">25</span> Auburn- Beat 'em
#2 Alabama <span style="color: #FF0000">Right on this one</span>- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">6</span> Arkansas- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">12</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">16</span> Georgia- Beat 'em

And 6 of those ranked teams are also in the SEC. It takes offense and defense to play in the SEC. </div></div>

Sorry, the SEC offenses aren't as good as the rest of the nation. As a whole offense in the SEC stinks.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As a whole offense in the SEC stinks.</div></div>

Oh my.
 
Re: Heisman

Anyone who thinks their conference or team could come in and play with the top tier teams in the SEC game after game is not living in the real world. Year in and year out anyway...

Many of the other highly ranked teams would be middle of the road SEC teams at best IMHO...

OK St. could beat anyone in the SEC on their best day, but could not do it throughout the season, no way, no how...

Oh, and Luck should win but will not.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're numbers are so off it isn't funny.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RStewart</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say what you want. LSU went undefeated (The only one), beat 8 ranked teams out of 13 games (5 on the road)and for the 6th time in a row an SEC team will be playing for the National Championship, actually two will be. If the SEC is so easy, how come they keep going to the big dance each year and winning?

#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">5</span>Oregon- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">25</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated </span>Mississippi State- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">16</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">23</span>West Virginia- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">17</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated</span> Florida- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">19</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">25</span> Auburn- Beat 'em
#2 Alabama <span style="color: #FF0000">Right on this one</span>- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">6</span> Arkansas- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">12</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">16</span> Georgia- Beat 'em

And 6 of those ranked teams are also in the SEC. It takes offense and defense to play in the SEC. </div></div>

Sorry, the SEC offenses aren't as good as the rest of the nation. As a whole offense in the SEC stinks. </div></div>

That's where they were ranked in the polls when LSU played them, not where they are ranked now. Sorry, you gotta do better than that.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RStewart</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're numbers are so off it isn't funny.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RStewart</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say what you want. LSU went undefeated (The only one), beat 8 ranked teams out of 13 games (5 on the road)and for the 6th time in a row an SEC team will be playing for the National Championship, actually two will be. If the SEC is so easy, how come they keep going to the big dance each year and winning?

#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">5</span>Oregon- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">25</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated </span>Mississippi State- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">16</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">23</span>West Virginia- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">17</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">Not Rated</span> Florida- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">19</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">25</span> Auburn- Beat 'em
#2 Alabama <span style="color: #FF0000">Right on this one</span>- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">3</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">6</span> Arkansas- Beat 'em
#<span style="text-decoration: line-through">12</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">16</span> Georgia- Beat 'em

And 6 of those ranked teams are also in the SEC. It takes offense and defense to play in the SEC. </div></div>

Sorry, the SEC offenses aren't as good as the rest of the nation. As a whole offense in the SEC stinks. </div></div>

That's where they were ranked in the polls when LSU played them, not where they are ranked now. Sorry, you gotta do better than that.</div></div>

Yeah. Because that is a good indicator of how good a team is. (READ: HEAVY SARCASM)

If that is how you are doing it: OSU beat the #1 team in the nation 44-10 (OU started the year as the highest ranked team)
 
Re: Heisman

I'm just glad nobody from OU won it, that way we didn't have to listen to Billy Sims yell "BOOMER" while the recipient gave his awards speech.
 
Re: Heisman

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just glad nobody from OU won it, that way we didn't have to listen to Billy Sims yell "BOOMER" while the recipient gave his awards speech. </div></div>

That feelings mutual haha
 
Re: Heisman

I'm a K-Stater and i have yet to even have a moment with the Heisman presentation haha
 
Re: Heisman

This is what was written by an analyst:

Like Dayne, Ball plays for a two-loss Badgers team that is going to the Rose Bowl. If the argument against Ball is that his team is not in the title hunt, then why does Robert Griffin III have so much support for leading a 9-3 Baylor team? Ball's numbers across the board are better than Alabama's Trent Richardson, and he has played just as many tough defenses as Richardson has faced. The only thing that gives an edge to Richardson is SEC bias.

Sorry just read it and had to post lol
 
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