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Helical Fluted Barrels?

H5N1

H5N1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 26, 2008
251
2
Montgomery, Texas
www.adjustertrainingsolutions.com
I'm almost due for a barrel, and I want a PGW styled barrel. This is apparently not doable?, without buying a PGW or a E.R. Shaw barrel. PGW uses Krieger barrels the best I can tell, if they can helical flute them ,why can't anyone else?

Thanks for the feedback,
Kyle
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

White Oak Armory used to helical flute some. I suspect it is a huge pain in the ass to do it. The value of fluting a barrel is first that it weighs less while retining significant rigidity. Second that it adds to the surface area allowing more rapid cooling of the barrel. I recently had White Oak Armory flute a .308 barrel for me and I was very happy with the results.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

i know some who will do it....but its a tad pricey....and they can actually scallop/helical also....and etch....at least i have seen it on two rifles already......very sexy.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

CAT5,
Why not take a look at staggered fluting. Brux barrels does it, and they make great barrels. I have 4 of there barrels, and they all have the staggered fluting. Here are a couple of pics with the staggered fluting on my 300 JAZZ.
IMG_1089.jpg
IMG_1093.jpg
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

it serves no purpose other than looking cool, save your money for ammo
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Kampfeld Customs spiral fluting

backascprep009.jpg
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CAT5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys, I had Carl do the bolt and knob, but he and Twisted barrels are currently not doing helical on barrels anymore. Due to patent infringement, I'd guess </div></div>

huh?
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Surgeon can do it, at least they did on mine.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

NotAGuru,
I was searching this subject and found an thread somewhere that said E.R. Shaw patented helical fluted barrels in 1999 and you must pay royalties to them if you do.
That could be riff-raff I was hoping someone here would know.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

according to compass lake engineering thats what it is, they said ER Shaw tried to patent it and is now sueing people that do it, thats why everyones site says spiral fluting is temporarily anavailble. i gues noone wants to spend the money to fight them.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fast freddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">according to compass lake engineering thats what it is, they said ER Shaw tried to patent it and is now sueing people that do it, thats why everyones site says spiral fluting is temporarily anavailble. i gues noone wants to spend the money to fight them. </div></div>

i admit that i don't know much (anything) about patent law but i don't see how someone could patent spiral fluting a barrel. i guess i can see the patent keeping barrel manufactures from selling pre-spiral fluted barrels. if a customer dropped a barrel off at a machine shop with a 4 axis cnc mill and said i want it spiral fluted with an x" ballmill, x" deep, x number of flutes and x degrees of twist, how could a patent be enforced on such a thing?


my machine is too small to do over about an 19" barrel but if it was big enough and someone brought me a barrel and requested it, i'd have no problem doing it. in fact, i may spiral flute the barrel on my new build now just because.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Here is another one of Karls fluting jobs.

Flutes are for looks, but spiral flutes are longer that strait fluts, so it take out more weight. this is a 23" 5.5 contour 7wsm

7wsm.jpg
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

I had a spiral fluted barrel on a 10-22 I just got rid of. I couldn't really tell the difference between it and any other heavy barrel. But it sure did look cool!!
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [img:left]
2w5m1yg.jpg
[/img] </div></div>

Here are the PGWDTI twins, Timberwolf and Coyote.

HPIM1309.jpg


Just in case anyone asks, the step on the barrel, ahead of the flutes is for the PGWDTI suppressor rear support.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CAT5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NotAGuru,
I was searching this subject and found an thread somewhere that said E.R. Shaw patented helical fluted barrels in 1999 and you must pay royalties to them if you do.
That could be riff-raff I was hoping someone here would know. </div></div>

Yea i cant see how they could do it like someone said if you change the twist depth of cut and the tool being used its completely different. Its just another machining process thats been around forever. Even if he did i believe that most of them run out in 10 years anyways.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Shaws patented said the number of flutes on the outside matches the number of riflings on the inside and is at the same rate of twist on the outside as the inside to reduce vibrations. Looks like to me they would have a hard time winning a lawsuit. The main 2 that wins in a suit is the lawyers. If the guys against you have more money than you do then they win by breaking you.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

my308s001.jpg


Here's one one Preston's Surgeon built rifles...one of the early ones and still the most accurate rifle I own. .308 win.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CAT5,
Why not take a look at staggered fluting. Brux barrels does it, and they make great barrels. I have 4 of there barrels, and they all have the staggered fluting. Here are a couple of pics with the staggered fluting on my 300 JAZZ.
IMG_1089.jpg
IMG_1093.jpg
</div></div>


Hey do you have a bigger image of this barrel? I'd like to see more of that up close
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

I will take a pic of the barrel and post it for you tommorrow.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

+ 1 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it serves no purpose other than looking cool, save your money for ammo </div></div>
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: preston pritchett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaws patented said the number of flutes on the outside matches the number of riflings on the inside and is at the same rate of twist on the outside as the inside to reduce vibrations. Looks like to me they would have a hard time winning a lawsuit. The main 2 that wins in a suit is the lawyers. If the guys against you have more money than you do then they win by breaking you. </div></div>

Oh geez..Then don't cut it at the same twist rate..hell cut it in a left hand helix..cut 8 flutes instead of 6..doesn't sound like a hard one to me.. How the heck did they get a patent on that?
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Read further into the patent and you'll see wording that while the primary description of the patent is for flutes that match the quantity and twist of the rifling, the patent is not limited to this configuration. As a result, the patent seems to broadly cover helical flutes, regardless of quantity and twist rate.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Here is another pic of a Brux stagared fluted barrel , this rifle belongs to Nathan Dagley

7mm-300WSMNate.jpg
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Here's one of my PGWDTI rifles. This angle shows how aggressive the fluting is. Not only is the helical fluting by the boys at PGW a work of art but it is also a very effective design.

Coyote018.jpg
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

nbklnkl.jpg


Another one from Karl.

Rich
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

I've got all my barrels helically fluted on the inside.

Does that count?
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
nbklnkl.jpg


Another one from Karl.

Rich</div></div>

nice rifle, what caliber is that? i like how he did your barrel in a tighter spiral.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can anyone translate legalese into layman from the patent? patent </div></div>

Basically, the patent says "the patent covers the fluting of a gun barrel in a spiral fashion. The twist rate of flutes, direction of twist, number of flutes and depth of flutes are non specific."
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can anyone translate legalese into layman from the patent? patent </div></div>

Basically, the patent says "the patent covers the fluting of a gun barrel in a spiral fashion. The twist rate of flutes, direction of twist, number of flutes and depth of flutes are non specific." </div></div>


Whatever.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can anyone translate legalese into layman from the patent? patent </div></div>

Basically, the patent says "the patent covers the fluting of a gun barrel in a spiral fashion. The twist rate of flutes, direction of twist, number of flutes and depth of flutes are non specific." </div></div>

It also says that flutes already exist, but that spiral flutes are better and thus an innovation/improvement, and thus this person/firm should be able to own the idea.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

now for the lawyer type of people, would that patent legally prevent spiral flutes being done to a customer owned barrel at the request of that customer or just the selling of new barrels with them?
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

If you are making spiral flutes on barrels as a service, thus making money on it, think there could be a issue. it is a little more then just providing new barrels with spiral fluting.

Now, if someone has there own equipment and does it themselves, just for themselves and is not doing it to make a profit or sell it. they will be fine. since technically there is no "Loss of income" for the patient holder from someone else selling.....

Now, if a person went into a machine shop and said "I want this", while technically it would be a patent violation for the machine shop to do it since they are making money providing a service without the permission of the petent holder. if no one knows, the shop is not doing it regularly or advertising the service, think it will be fine.....but I did not say that outloud.
smile.gif


Can't bash Shaw for upholding the patent. I wish I would of the idea and patented it myself. I would be happy to let people pake it after paying me a certain fee. if it is my idea, I should be allowed to profit from it.
 
Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

was shaw the first person to do spiral flutes or just the person to patent it? i just can't quite see how a patent on a basic machine service could hold up. i can totally see a barel manufacture not being able to sell barrels with it done though.
 
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