I posted a while back about buying a Browning A-bolt. While I was developing loads I was consistantly grouping just over half an inch at 100 with 52 grain sierra match kings. when I got the load right i was getting 5 shot groups at 3/8th of an inch. then I decided I would fill the but of the synthetic stock up with metal ment (similar to devcon liquid steel) to make the rifle more evenly weighted and to reduce recoil so i can maintain a sight picture through recoil. then when I shot it it was grouping over an inch so i removed all the metal mend but things havent got much better. The best group i can manage is 3/4 of an inch at best. can anyone give me any sugestions as to what went wrong in doing this and what i might be able to do to fix it.
Help! lost accuracy
- Thread starter Muffo
- Start date
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Have you cleaned it lately? Some hott .22s need to be cleaned often. Have you tried a different optic? Checked for loose mounting screws?
Have you cleaned it lately? Some hott .22s need to be cleaned often. Have you tried a different optic? Checked for loose mounting screws?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Yeh It was cleaned every shot to run the barrel in then every 5 then every 10. I still clean it often. I have changed the scope and tightend all the mounts. i have tried different tensions on the screws to hold the action in and covered the stock in bearing blue to make sure it isnt touching anywhere. Ive re checked my seating depths and went through the process of developing a new load and tried different projectiles just to try and eliminate any mistakes. the only thing I can see that has changed was reinforcing the stock and I removed all that completly. My best groups now are worse than my worst groups before and I cant find any explination.
Yeh It was cleaned every shot to run the barrel in then every 5 then every 10. I still clean it often. I have changed the scope and tightend all the mounts. i have tried different tensions on the screws to hold the action in and covered the stock in bearing blue to make sure it isnt touching anywhere. Ive re checked my seating depths and went through the process of developing a new load and tried different projectiles just to try and eliminate any mistakes. the only thing I can see that has changed was reinforcing the stock and I removed all that completly. My best groups now are worse than my worst groups before and I cant find any explination.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Unfortunately sometimes I've been told putting weight in the stock messes up the harmonics. You are sure it is all cleaned out. Some barrels also shoot better with more rounds down the pipe between cleanings. Did you go back to your best load from before it shot bad? How many rounds total do you have down it?
Unfortunately sometimes I've been told putting weight in the stock messes up the harmonics. You are sure it is all cleaned out. Some barrels also shoot better with more rounds down the pipe between cleanings. Did you go back to your best load from before it shot bad? How many rounds total do you have down it?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Did you remove the stock to insert the metal. If so it may have been how you re-bedded your action in your stock. I ran into that once when I removed my stock to adjust the trigger.
Good luck,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
Did you remove the stock to insert the metal. If so it may have been how you re-bedded your action in your stock. I ran into that once when I removed my stock to adjust the trigger.
Good luck,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
usually the rule of the last thing fucked with will answer your questions. i would say go through the stock again and make sure you are not over loking something. the action screws would be my first look as well. are they all the same length? what are you torquing them to?
usually the rule of the last thing fucked with will answer your questions. i would say go through the stock again and make sure you are not over loking something. the action screws would be my first look as well. are they all the same length? what are you torquing them to?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
dry fire the scope and watch for the twitch in the reticule...if so the reticule is broke loose....happens sometimes
dry fire the scope and watch for the twitch in the reticule...if so the reticule is broke loose....happens sometimes
Re: Help! lost accuracy
I would probably have about 200 rounds down it now. I have made sure everything is cleaned out of the stock. I havent actually found wat tension to torque the action screws but before it went bad I was doing them up as far as i could then backing them off about a quater of a turn and it was working. I have tried shooting it with different tensions on the action screws but didnt help. Is it possible that having the but reinforced that it has caused some other part of the stock to flex to much and has damaged it, or maybe stuffed the bedding somehow. I still have one more scope to try on it but I didnt think this should be the problem, Il try dry firing it. Thanks for all the help
I would probably have about 200 rounds down it now. I have made sure everything is cleaned out of the stock. I havent actually found wat tension to torque the action screws but before it went bad I was doing them up as far as i could then backing them off about a quater of a turn and it was working. I have tried shooting it with different tensions on the action screws but didnt help. Is it possible that having the but reinforced that it has caused some other part of the stock to flex to much and has damaged it, or maybe stuffed the bedding somehow. I still have one more scope to try on it but I didnt think this should be the problem, Il try dry firing it. Thanks for all the help
Re: Help! lost accuracy
I had a rifle that shot great in a wood stock and I changed to a fiberglass stock that was bedded and the groups went to crap.I was told that it changed the harmonics of the barrel.I dont know if this is true but I put it back in the factory stock and it shot great.I still dont know for sure.It was a light weight barrel
I had a rifle that shot great in a wood stock and I changed to a fiberglass stock that was bedded and the groups went to crap.I was told that it changed the harmonics of the barrel.I dont know if this is true but I put it back in the factory stock and it shot great.I still dont know for sure.It was a light weight barrel
Re: Help! lost accuracy
If you are looking for a stock, ebay had some wssm stocks but I can't remember the model. As for the A-bolt, I have one in 300wsm and it is very picky about a clean barrel. I have to run a patch every 5 or so rounds with my berger 185 vlds or it opens up pretty quick. Good luck.
If you are looking for a stock, ebay had some wssm stocks but I can't remember the model. As for the A-bolt, I have one in 300wsm and it is very picky about a clean barrel. I have to run a patch every 5 or so rounds with my berger 185 vlds or it opens up pretty quick. Good luck.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Being a WSSM I'm wondering if there might be a nice layer of copper fouling in there. Have you used a good copper cleaner? What did you do and use to clean it?
Being a WSSM I'm wondering if there might be a nice layer of copper fouling in there. Have you used a good copper cleaner? What did you do and use to clean it?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
I dont think its a case of I forgot how to shoot. I can shoot constant 1/4 inch groups with other rifles and I could shoot constant 1/2 inch groups with this rifle. I let my father have a sot out if it and he didnt do any better. He has represented australia in pistol shooting and is a pretty good shot
I dont think its a case of I forgot how to shoot. I can shoot constant 1/4 inch groups with other rifles and I could shoot constant 1/2 inch groups with this rifle. I let my father have a sot out if it and he didnt do any better. He has represented australia in pistol shooting and is a pretty good shot
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Muffo,
Cannot tell you how to your accuracy back. But when your rifle looses it, its just gone, gone, gone: Just play this, to feel all better:
The Righteous Brothers
Muffo,
Cannot tell you how to your accuracy back. But when your rifle looses it, its just gone, gone, gone: Just play this, to feel all better:
The Righteous Brothers
Re: Help! lost accuracy
How many loads are on that WSSM brass you are loading?
Any changes in powder, primers, bullets or a different lot of either?
You're sure there is no degradation of your technique?
How many groups have you fired after cleaning?
Are you shooting off a bipod? If so, everything tight there?
How many loads are on that WSSM brass you are loading?
Any changes in powder, primers, bullets or a different lot of either?
You're sure there is no degradation of your technique?
How many groups have you fired after cleaning?
Are you shooting off a bipod? If so, everything tight there?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many loads are on that WSSM brass you are loading?
Any changes in powder, primers, bullets or a different lot of either?
You're sure there is no degradation of your technique?
How many groups have you fired after cleaning?
Are you shooting off a bipod? If so, everything tight there? </div></div>
Im using once fired brass, same primers bullets all from the same batch. Im sure my technique is still good. I have just been doing some prone practise with a 22 and I shot some rounds off the bench and I was shooting near one whole groups with crap ammo, no worse than I have ever done. I have been only doing 3 shot groups since it stopped shooting well, sometimes i will do about 3 sometimes 5 or 6 but now I just feel I am wasting both ammo and barrel life as I there arent really any variables left to change. Im shooting off a bench rest using 2 sand bags one suporting the front of the stock and one under the but to reduce any human error. I have also doe it just using a sand bag under the front and my hand under the but.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many loads are on that WSSM brass you are loading?
Any changes in powder, primers, bullets or a different lot of either?
You're sure there is no degradation of your technique?
How many groups have you fired after cleaning?
Are you shooting off a bipod? If so, everything tight there? </div></div>
Im using once fired brass, same primers bullets all from the same batch. Im sure my technique is still good. I have just been doing some prone practise with a 22 and I shot some rounds off the bench and I was shooting near one whole groups with crap ammo, no worse than I have ever done. I have been only doing 3 shot groups since it stopped shooting well, sometimes i will do about 3 sometimes 5 or 6 but now I just feel I am wasting both ammo and barrel life as I there arent really any variables left to change. Im shooting off a bench rest using 2 sand bags one suporting the front of the stock and one under the but to reduce any human error. I have also doe it just using a sand bag under the front and my hand under the but.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
All other things being acounted for, Maybe you damaged the barrel with the cleaning. Its a thought.
All other things being acounted for, Maybe you damaged the barrel with the cleaning. Its a thought.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
could be 3 things
did you torque the action back in place after the plastic steel application?
did you check to ensure the barrel does not have a pressure point
Clean the bore with J&B bore paste its some great stuff.
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you cleaned it lately? Some hott .22s need to be cleaned often. Have you tried a different optic? Checked for loose mounting screws? </div></div>
could be 3 things
did you torque the action back in place after the plastic steel application?
did you check to ensure the barrel does not have a pressure point
Clean the bore with J&B bore paste its some great stuff.
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you cleaned it lately? Some hott .22s need to be cleaned often. Have you tried a different optic? Checked for loose mounting screws? </div></div>
Re: Help! lost accuracy
The .223 WSSM has got to be the text book definition of the term "Overbore" and I would not be surprised to hear that it is some throat erosion that is manifesting itself here.
Have you tried seating your bullets to a greater length so they don't have so far to jump?
I have seen photos of some of the cases extremely dys-concentric. I think you'll need to get your bore scoped and test the concentricity of your cases and chamber.
The .223 WSSM has got to be the text book definition of the term "Overbore" and I would not be surprised to hear that it is some throat erosion that is manifesting itself here.
Have you tried seating your bullets to a greater length so they don't have so far to jump?
I have seen photos of some of the cases extremely dys-concentric. I think you'll need to get your bore scoped and test the concentricity of your cases and chamber.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
After you bedded it did you make sure there is a little space under the bottom of the recoil lug?
I agree with the other guys:
1. check scope mounts
2. re-check action screws
3. check bipod
4. do you neck turn or anneal cases?
After you bedded it did you make sure there is a little space under the bottom of the recoil lug?
I agree with the other guys:
1. check scope mounts
2. re-check action screws
3. check bipod
4. do you neck turn or anneal cases?
Re: Help! lost accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mram10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After you bedded it did you make sure there is a little space under the bottom of the recoil lug?
I agree with the other guys:
1. check scope mounts
2. re-check action screws
3. check bipod
4. do you neck turn or anneal cases? </div></div>
I dought I damaged the barrel cleaning it but I gues its possible. to clean it I soaked a small peice of whit cloth in bore solvant and draged it through the barrel twice then continued the process with clean cloth untill it came out completely white. some times If I didnt want to do it with bore solvant I would do it with a course plastic brush then a very fine one. I did a full size of the case and trimmed them all to the length indicated in my loading manual, but I just realised that at the same time I put the reinforcing in the stock i changed to once fired cases, before that I was using new unsized cases because I didnt have dies yet and I was using a .223 seating die. So it could have something to do with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mram10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After you bedded it did you make sure there is a little space under the bottom of the recoil lug?
I agree with the other guys:
1. check scope mounts
2. re-check action screws
3. check bipod
4. do you neck turn or anneal cases? </div></div>
I dought I damaged the barrel cleaning it but I gues its possible. to clean it I soaked a small peice of whit cloth in bore solvant and draged it through the barrel twice then continued the process with clean cloth untill it came out completely white. some times If I didnt want to do it with bore solvant I would do it with a course plastic brush then a very fine one. I did a full size of the case and trimmed them all to the length indicated in my loading manual, but I just realised that at the same time I put the reinforcing in the stock i changed to once fired cases, before that I was using new unsized cases because I didnt have dies yet and I was using a .223 seating die. So it could have something to do with it.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
What its starting to sound like is that you doubt every suggestion that has been givin to you. A few people on here happen to know what they're talking about, and for all we know you run in that crowd. But with a question like what you've posted i don't see that being the case. My father is a great shot and always has been, but in the last 300 rounds its gone to shit and he didn't know why. I sat back and watched him flinch every shot he took. I couldn't convince him of it thou. Played a little trick on him and put a round with no powder in with his and let him see for himself. Guess what, he's a great shot again. You may be the second coming as far as shooting goes for all we know, but you have to see it from our perspective. You have a problem and came here for answers and I haven't see you do anything but shoot each suggestion down. Might give that some thought.
I for one really hope you found your own proble with the reloading and it verywell might be the case. Keep us informed what you find out.
What its starting to sound like is that you doubt every suggestion that has been givin to you. A few people on here happen to know what they're talking about, and for all we know you run in that crowd. But with a question like what you've posted i don't see that being the case. My father is a great shot and always has been, but in the last 300 rounds its gone to shit and he didn't know why. I sat back and watched him flinch every shot he took. I couldn't convince him of it thou. Played a little trick on him and put a round with no powder in with his and let him see for himself. Guess what, he's a great shot again. You may be the second coming as far as shooting goes for all we know, but you have to see it from our perspective. You have a problem and came here for answers and I haven't see you do anything but shoot each suggestion down. Might give that some thought.
I for one really hope you found your own proble with the reloading and it verywell might be the case. Keep us informed what you find out.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
Even if i dought it I am still willing to try it. thats why I put in my cleaning process in so you could judge for yourself If I could have damaged the barrel. Im quiet sure there will be hundreds if not thousands of members that have greater knowledge than I do, thats why I came here for answers. As for my shooting im quiet confident there. off a bench im confident I can shoot to the potential of the rifle. I am a semi profesional pistol shooter. I spend about 5 hours a week just dry firing a pistol against a blank wall to see if there is any sight disturbance when the trigger breaks. shooting off a bench the same skills help. And I can shoot perfect groups with other rifles
Even if i dought it I am still willing to try it. thats why I put in my cleaning process in so you could judge for yourself If I could have damaged the barrel. Im quiet sure there will be hundreds if not thousands of members that have greater knowledge than I do, thats why I came here for answers. As for my shooting im quiet confident there. off a bench im confident I can shoot to the potential of the rifle. I am a semi profesional pistol shooter. I spend about 5 hours a week just dry firing a pistol against a blank wall to see if there is any sight disturbance when the trigger breaks. shooting off a bench the same skills help. And I can shoot perfect groups with other rifles
Re: Help! lost accuracy
I'd also look heavely into what queequeg said about the throat. Like he stated a 223 WSSM will eat the hell out of a barrel. It may just be time to look to different bullets and loads.
I'd also look heavely into what queequeg said about the throat. Like he stated a 223 WSSM will eat the hell out of a barrel. It may just be time to look to different bullets and loads.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
You may or maynot be able to tell just looking into the bore. But the good news is a number of guys on here have shot the first 3-6 inches or rifling outta the barrel and they still shoot well. Not benchrest well but well enough for them.
You may or maynot be able to tell just looking into the bore. But the good news is a number of guys on here have shot the first 3-6 inches or rifling outta the barrel and they still shoot well. Not benchrest well but well enough for them.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
my 17 remington has some minimal throat erosion not very much but it still shoots under half an inch and it has maybe 2000 rounds down it. I dought it has many shots left before it has to be re barreled. but on the other hand I had a 303-25 that looked really good but when i used the boor light on it it looked terrable. Do you know wat I should be torquing the action bolts to as i still havent found it anywhere.
my 17 remington has some minimal throat erosion not very much but it still shoots under half an inch and it has maybe 2000 rounds down it. I dought it has many shots left before it has to be re barreled. but on the other hand I had a 303-25 that looked really good but when i used the boor light on it it looked terrable. Do you know wat I should be torquing the action bolts to as i still havent found it anywhere.
Re: Help! lost accuracy
OK... I'll weigh-in...
I hope you use a bore-guide when you clean. If you don't, you may very well have damaged the bore with a cleaning rod. This is something that many don't consider but destroys more barrels than shooting! Over-cleaning is a very real problem! There should be "support groups" for people who obsess over cleaning their bore! LOL! Also, as stated before those WSSM rounds destroy throats... and probably even faster than 220 Swift (I only say that because I've experienced it with 220 Swift). I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was just a case of "end-of-life" for the barrel. FWIW
OK... I'll weigh-in...
I hope you use a bore-guide when you clean. If you don't, you may very well have damaged the bore with a cleaning rod. This is something that many don't consider but destroys more barrels than shooting! Over-cleaning is a very real problem! There should be "support groups" for people who obsess over cleaning their bore! LOL! Also, as stated before those WSSM rounds destroy throats... and probably even faster than 220 Swift (I only say that because I've experienced it with 220 Swift). I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was just a case of "end-of-life" for the barrel. FWIW
Re: Help! lost accuracy
today I made some discoverys. I shot it using new unsized brass and the groups shrunk a small amount but not much. then I tried to vary my shooting technique and it had a huge affect. if i put it on the sand bags got it lined up on the target and didnt put my sholder on the but the groups shrank to minute sizes. I shot 3 5 shot groups at 1/8th of an inch center to center. as soon as i put my sholder near it the groups went out to nearly an inch. So I owe flyboy an apology. this now brings me to my next question. what is Going wrong because I cant shoot it in the field without hanging on to it. Is it the the stock flexing to much, the action flexing, or am I just doing something wrong that I dont when shooting other rifles
today I made some discoverys. I shot it using new unsized brass and the groups shrunk a small amount but not much. then I tried to vary my shooting technique and it had a huge affect. if i put it on the sand bags got it lined up on the target and didnt put my sholder on the but the groups shrank to minute sizes. I shot 3 5 shot groups at 1/8th of an inch center to center. as soon as i put my sholder near it the groups went out to nearly an inch. So I owe flyboy an apology. this now brings me to my next question. what is Going wrong because I cant shoot it in the field without hanging on to it. Is it the the stock flexing to much, the action flexing, or am I just doing something wrong that I dont when shooting other rifles
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