Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

[KYpatriot]

Howdy ya'll I have a F. Co-ax on the way to get started reloading on my .308. I know this is a good press based on all the reviews on it here and elsewhere, but I am wondering what I need in terms of the dies. Hoping someone can help me choose.

I will be reloading for a Rem7005r, 24" stock everything. Mostly long range target but will work up some hunting loads too. I am beginning with Varget, 175SMKs, CCIbr2s and the FGMM brass I have. Eventually I would like to get into competition but for know I am just learning, bangin steel out to 650 or so until I can get access to a place to shoot 1000yds.

Now what dies do I need and why? RCBS set is about $30. Forster bench rest dies seem to go about 60-70 and the Forster ultra dies are $88 or so.

What justifies the the ultra dies price? I want to produce great ammo and eventually plan to fully match prep the brass like in doc's thread but dont have all that yet. Does the ultra make it easier to change seating depth or something?

Should I spring for the ultra micrometer style die now (in other words is this something I will need later for comps?)I know its only $50 extra but then again it is $50 towards a powder measure or something and I'm not made of money.

Also, can I set the Forster full length resize die to just resize the necks or do most guys FL resize every time? seems like fireformed brass would be a good thing for accuracy but obviously I am in new waters here...

As far as the Co-ax is concerned - anything besides the dies needed? I know it has its own shellholder. Thanks in advance - awesome site.

 

[treebasher]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Here is my two cents worth. I full length resizing everything now and seem to have better accuracy. If you think about it, it is nearly impossible to clock the cartridge back in the chamber EXACTLY as it was when you first fired it and will not have the bullet concentric with the bore of the barrel.

I have both Forester and Redding dies and think the the Foresters' are your best bang for the buck. Redding is the cream of the crop though...

The in-line seating die is the only way to go. Personally I like the micrometer seating stem, just saves a bunch of time, is repeatable and easy to set up if you are running different bullets.

Just my opinions and there are a bunch of them out there when it comes to reloading

 

[treebasher]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

...oh and when I say that I full length resize I am setting up my die so that my stripped bolt will just close smoothly on a chambered case. That way you are moving the brass the minimum amount needed thus reducing work hardening of the case and not stretching it excessively when firing.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Thanks Tree- sounds like you are saying that you are full length resizing, just not all the way back to factory dimensions and that you like the Forster ultra dies. Thanks!

 

[bugman]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

regardless of which dies you decide on, use forester die lock rings on ALL your dies. ...these lock rings grip the die instead of forcing a set screw into the threads. you will find them to be very friendly when fine tuning your sizing die on your coax for shoulder bump. by the way, IMO a micrometer head on your seater die is worth every penny.

 

[One_Man]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

I am in the same boat as you. I went with the Forster set.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00070004501

 

[biglakesrule]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

I think the forster coax press 'needs' the forster lock rings to work right. Though, I agree - gripping vs threading into die-threads is good. Hornady rings are the same way (grip).

 

[biglakesrule]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

My $0.02, considering that it's a factory gun:

Get a Forster FL sizer, have it honed by forster to only reduce necks a little bit instead of the "way too much" that all normal sizers do. Little bit meaning measure a loaded round OD at the neck, subtract a few mils (say, 5) and have it honed to that. Alternatively, if you have very consistent (read: neck-turned) cases, you could have the die honed such that you don't need the expander ball. Factory chamber doesn't benefit from highly prepped brass, though, so probably just go 5 mils under and use that. Otherwise, you work the brass too much and harden it sooner than it needs to be (less brass life). Similarly, size the brass just 1-2 mils down from "Fired" head-to-ogive length so you're not over-working it in that dimension. If bolt won't close easy, you probably need to add another 1-2 mils to the FL sizing.

For seater, like others have said, the micrometer head types make it much easier to make changes - no lock rings to loosen and tighten hoping you made the right adjustment. You can diddle with a normal seater til you get the depth right and hope that it holds the bullets concentric... or just go for the gusto.

 

[biglakesrule]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

So, yeah... I just now saw your 2ND post about work hardening the brass. Right on.

 

[Brent Thornton]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Ditto with Treebasher,

I'm know expert but my mentor was a good benchrest shooter and he was the padawan to one of the best, a hall of famer.

I use Redding FL sizing dies and a wilson in-line seater, so you will need an abor press for the wilson. Ditto also on whoever posted on the forrester lock rings. The redding suck. Good luck.

Brent

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

<span style="text-decoration: underline">The ABC's of Reloading
Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook
Handloading for Competition</span>

Except for the recommended books, don't buy anything else until you know why you're buying it.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Need to read the Reloading for Competition but have read the Lyman and Speer manuals cover to cover. I liked the tutorial doc put together - it was very helpful too. Eventually when funds allow I want to move up to a nice custom rifle when I can take advantage of the extra precision they offer. I dont want to have to buy new reloading equipment at that point. This rifle so far according to my book is averaging .6 moa @100yd, stepping up to 1 to 1.25 moa by 650yd. Of course some of that is my poor wind calling. Vertically it looks better than 1 moa, maybe 2/3 - 3/4moa. Anyway, I want to be set up to load some really good ammo and hopefully shrink the factory groups some.

At this point I am leaning towards the ultra dies from Forster. Sounds like it would be much easier to play with the seating depth accurately. Might be helpful for shooting the secant bullets like 155 scenars out of a long throat rifle like mine, assuming I can get them to shoot well enough to even bother single loading them.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

The following material is borrowed from another forum. Perhaps it will be informative.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both Redding and Forster dies have better quality and finish than RCBS and others. The differences in these two have to do with design. Redding produces bushing dies. This style works the brass less and doesn't employ (typically) an expander. The expander can distort the necks and be a source of run-out. Forster is a standard design employing the expander. However, the button is mounted high on the stem and floats, reducing the tendency to distort necks. The other difference is in the sleeve in the sizing dies. It is there to cause the bullet to align with the brass case during seating, again minimizing run-out. The Redding micrometer die is so furnished, as are both of the Forster seaters. Unless you're experimenting with different bullet designs and distance from the lands, a micrometer has less application, especially if your loads are confined to magazine length. For standard die sets, I would suggest the Forster. Redding's standard dies don't offer any specific features. The standard Forster seater combined with the Redding FL bushing sizer is an economic combination for those interested in bushing dies. Forster has introduced a bushing neck-sizing die that will also bump the shoulder; eventually the cases will need full-length sizing.

Another popular piece is the Lee collet neck-sizing die. It when coupled with a body die (Redding or RCBS) and a good seating die is a popular combination for reloading for no-turn chambers. The Lee die will have its issues and can benefit from some extra attention.</div></div>
Redding's bushing die sets are not addressed thoroughly in the discussion, but are generally employed by those shooting for accuracy unless using custom dies. Your choice will be between sets having a FL die or a neck-sizing die with a body die. Full-length sizing dies are typically adjusted to provide minimum headspace rather than to control the amount of neck sizing. As mentioned, the non-micrometer Redding seater does not have the alignment sleeve. You will want to consider the Redding Match bushing die sets when selecting your dies.

Zediker's <span style="text-decoration: underline">Handloading for Competition</span> goes into great detail regarding variations in brass and neck turning, and will provide an appreciation for brass preparation that should be understood when employing bushing-style dies.

As a side note, Redding's die-lock rings won't work with the Forster press and would need to be replaced. The Hornady rings are very popular for this purpose and can be had in packs of six for around $15. The Forster rings will also serve.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Thanks Winchester - good stuff. I really need to get the Zediker book. I wont be neck turning right off the bat or anything but this is the kind of info I was looking for, so that I dont end up replacing everything later. I will check out the Redding match dies.
A lot to learn, but fun...
I have already avoided at least a few mistakes getting into LR shooting due to the generous folks here. Thanks again all.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

What you will learn is that neck-turning is not for correcting bad brass, but rather for uniforming brass to fit a custom chamber. With good brass, turning can be avoided while providing excellent performance. A bushing die allows for flexibility when choosing brass.

Forster will modify the necks of their dies to eliminate the expander, but such a die is inflexible. When you are having your barrels chambered with the same spec reamer, custom dies make sense.

There are lots of pitfalls to be avoided. One of the main ones involves powder dispensing. Starting with an RCBS ChargeMaster Combo makes a lot of sense. The usual route is to learn that a mechanical dispenser is inadequate. It will be used with a trickler and each charge weighed on a beam scale. The typical reloader stays with the original investment for as long as he can before making the step up, the main reason why I don't recommend kits. You can get ahead of the curve. Choose your own equipment.

Most people find the Zediker book hard going because of the author's self-indulgent writing style. But, the information is there. Monte likes it, but most of us are less masochistic. An index would be a major improvement. If you get the book from Sinclair, ask for their catalog; it's an education, too.

 

[biglakesrule]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

I agree that the Zediker book is fantastically over-worded. Reads more like a diary than a reference book (which it's simply NOT due to the lack of good index, topical segmentation and/or summaries, etc.)

Two things you get out of a bushing die: less working the brass and control over "neck tension". The downside is that they self-center on the brass, and if you are using a wide tolerance chamber (vs a tight benchrest chamber - basically anytime you have to size down "a lot") the bushings will self-center imperfectly and give really bad runout. I went down this road and after paying $20/ea for a few bushings figured it all out and bought a honed-out forster die. Also, the neck tension was something I was never able to see a benefit from. Again, sloppy chamber and such are limitations, not something insanely subtle like neck tension.

 

[Mech45]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

I have the Co-Ax press and I don't believe it will work with anything but Forster lock rings. Buy extra rings, having to move rings from die to die you loose one of the biggest advatages of the Co-Ax press which is quick die changes. I have both Forster and Redding dies which are both good but any new dies I buy are Redding.I like the Redding competition die sets that use the interchangable bushings and the micrometer seating die. I neck size for target shooting and full length resize for hunting loads.If you have a loose chamber you can adjust your die to only size 3/4 of the neck to help center the round in the chamber for target shooting. The competition seating dies really improve accuracy for me.

Chris

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

hornadee lock rings work just fine

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Re: Help me choose dies for my Co-ax

Forster, Hornady, Lyman (aftermarket, not the OEM ones that come with their dies), and really old RCBS cross-bolt style lock rings all work fine in the co-ax.

Andy