Originally Posted by skog
Ok, some of what was said here was over my head. I have the magpul dvd and have watched it. May need to rewatch it. Will I learn much more from the snipers hide or the rifles only DVD?
The rifle's only video is good, I own it and have watched it several times.
HOWEVER, you might want to consider SS's advise, that being the assets of the ARMY MARKSMANSHIP UNIT.
It seems every time the AMU is mentioned by SS or my self we start feuds. So be it. But ask your self this, Who wins most of the International Sniper Competitions. Who does the SEAL Sniper School Use for the Marksmanship Portion of the Seal Sniper Training (read the Red Circle by Webb, the chief seal sniper instructor). Who wins most of the Inter-service Rifle Competitions. Where did the Secret Service, FBI, and Marines, (yes I said Marines) sent their instructors when they were getting their programs started.
The answer is the AMU. Go to the CMP books store and find DVDs made by the AMU. They're expensive, probably run you about $6.95 each (some are more).
you don't need to learn how to build an unsupported (sling supported) prone position for the purpose of using a bi pod. You don't need to learn long division in order to use a calculator. And you don't need to learn to use iron sights in order to use a scope.
Ever hear the expression, "you have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk".
Now to address the problem. It's as SS said, "the lack of relaxation". Relaxation is the most under used fundamental of marksmanship BUT THE MOST CRITICAL, in my opinion. Any time you act, there is an re-action, or opposite re-action. You swat a fly, you relax your arm, you jump when startled by a sound, then relax back into your position you were in before the sound.
The same thing with shooting. The hammer falls, you naturally fall back into a relaxed position. We try to compensate with this with follow through.
But lets try something else. Lets get in position to shoot, when you're all lined up, good sight picture, close your eyes and relax. Now open your eyes. what do you see in this total relaxed state. It its not the target over the sights or through the scope, adjust and do it again. Keep doing it until you have no movement at all in the relaxed position.
Now as you're relaxed, dry fire with your eyes close. Open your eyes, if your not perfectly lined up you didn't do it right, keep at it until the hammer falls, you open your eyes and everything is perfect.
What this means is there is zero muscling of the rifle. Zero muscling means you don't relaxed after the hammer falls, why, because you are shooting in the total relaxed state.
As to bi-pod vs. sling. With the bi-pod you are using it to mast muscling. Be honest with your self, its your scores or hits that count here. Telling us X or Y doesn't help you at all. Only you know what you see, and if you're honest with your self, you're going to look through the scope, and the steady bi-pod is going to cause you to have to wiggle a tad to get on. You can't cheat with a sling, a slight wiggle will get you. Cheating might get you by one or two shots, but you're developing a habit that will be hard to brake.
Using the sling un-supported is going to force you to do it right, which will carry over to your bi-pod, bean bags or bench.
Now everyone is going to chime in and tell me I'm full of shit, so be it, if you want to learn to shoot, first you have to be honest. Look through your scope while using a bipod, Don't have to come back and tell us, I know you'll cheat and wiggle a bit. But be honest with yourself, adjust your shooting accordingly. You can still come back and tell me I'm full of it, I don't care, I too old to worry about what people think of me. My wife and my dog like me, that's what counts.
I've coached rifle teams a long time, put on several sniper schools, I've found the biggest deterrent for a new shooter is the lack of honesty with themselves. You see it all the time. Shooter shoots, coach ask for a call, he gets IT'S GOOD. I know its not, he knows its not, but there is the lack of honesty.
Compare a new shooters score book to an experienced shooter. Look at the calls and compare them to the plotted hits.
We like to argue. All of us, that's what makes these forums fun, but with your self, there is no substitute for honesty. Only you know what you see through the sights. If it moved after the hammer fall and you open your eyes, and are not perfectly lined up, you're not relaxed, Bi-pods mast that, slings wont. I don't care who you are, after the hammer falls you're going to fall back into a natural state, and that is when your sights should be lined up.
You have to learn to crawl before you walk. Learn to shoot without the bi-pod as a crutch. Then when you do move to the bi-pod you'll me much further a head.
