Rifle Scopes Help on S&B Scope Differences

[Pusher591]

I'm not real familiar with S&B's and have only handle 2 different models, so please bare with me. I have been thinking about getting one and looking at different models. I'm looking at the 3-20x50 and the 5-25x56. Its purpose will be mainly for target and competition. I may put it on a work gun as well, if need be. I'm looking at the MSR reticle and the P4/P4F.

I'm definately looking for very firm audible clicks and a zero stop type function. The below link is to the scope I would like to have but it only appears to come in the RAL8000 baby poop brown. Does this model come in Black? I found another 5-25x56 model with all the same features but the turrts appear different. Can someone tell me why.

http://cstactical.com/optics/rifle-...59/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-25x56-lp-mtc-lt.html

Again, I'm not familiar with S&B's at all so can someone give me a few pointers in what works for them and why.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Captain Kirk]

That's the MTC (more tactile click) locking turret version, and they do come in black. I prefer the (DT) turrets, but its a personal preference. All the S&Bs have great turrets, but the MTC has more of a chunk than a click.

 

[Pusher591]

Thanks captain. Is DT short for the double turn with the white and yellow numbers? Are the MTC turrets hard to turn? How do the DT and MTC turrets compare to Nightforce turrets? I have mainly only used Nightforce optics.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Correct, DT= double turn. The DT turrets have more of a distinct click compared to the NF turrets, the MTC is not hard to turn but the clicks are much more defined. With the standard DT turret, there is no possibility of the turret being bumped or involuntarily turned, if that's what your concern is.

 

[Pusher591]

Thanks for the help, it's nice to have immediate answers and someone always willing to help.

 

[Falsecrack]

I have an S&B 5-25, MTC (non locking) w/ the MSR reticle. The MTC has very positive clicks indeed, but as it's been mentioned (in other threads), it s difficult to adjust to a single click.

 

[Pusher591]

I have an S&B 5-25, MTC (non locking) w/ the MSR reticle. The MTC has very positive clicks indeed, but as it's been mentioned (in other threads), it s difficult to adjust to a single click.

Can you elaborate on that. Do you mean if I'm dialing 1.4 mils its hard to stop exactly on 1.4? Again, I'm not familiar with S&B's just because I never thought I'd be able to afford one but I may be able to soon so I'm beginning to really look in to them. I'll search MTC turret issues and see if it turns up anything.

***WOW! After a quick search and a bunch of reading I don't know I have the desire to own a S&B at all. Or at least not with the MTC turrets. I read a lot and it just seems they have a good bit of QC issues. How does everyone feel about the Premier 5-25's

 

[Falsecrack]

Can you elaborate on that. Do you mean if I'm dialing 1.4 mils its hard to stop exactly on 1.4? Again, I'm not familiar with S&B's just because I never thought I'd be able to afford one but I may be able to soon so I'm beginning to really look in to them. I'll search MTC turret issues and see if it turns up anything.

Yes, exactly! It seems as if the clicks are so rigid, that it would take superhuman fine motor skills to get right at 1.4 Mils. Now maybe this rigidity will ease up after some breaking in time, maybe not. In any event, for the kind of shooting I do, it doesn't really bother me, but if speed were an issue, it might (bother me). Oh, and no need to apologize a out your lack of S&B knowledge, this is my first one too and I'm far from an authority on their scopes. I do really dig the MSR tho.

 

[Pusher591]

Yes, exactly! It seems as if the clicks are so rigid, that it would take superhuman fine motor skills to get right at 1.4 Mils. Now maybe this rigidity will ease up after some breaking in time, maybe not. In any event, for the kind of shooting I do, it doesn't really bother me, but if speed were an issue, it might (bother me). Oh, and no need to apologize a out your lack of S&B knowledge, this is my first one too and I'm far from an authority on their scopes. I do really dig the MSR tho.

See, speed will be a issue for me because of competitions. I might have to start looking at some other brands or look at the DT 5-25's.

 

[Falsecrack]

***WOW! After a quick search and a bunch if reading I don't know I have the desire to own a S&B at all. Or at least not with the MTC turrets. I read a lot and it just seems they have a good bit if QC issues. How does everyone feel about the Premier 5-25's[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you can't go wrong with Premiere either. I was looking at those before I picked up my PMII. I also run a USO which is a fine scope too. Look at Khales, Steiner, Hendsholt, etc. while you're at it.

 

[VJJPunisher]

I've only handled and shot with one Premier and it's turrets were just like what you describe above, it's super fine clicks were almost impossible to not jump and skip over the index I was trying for

 

[Pusher591]

I've only handled and shot with one Premier and it's turrets were just like what you describe above, it's super fine clicks were almost impossible to not jump and skip over the index I was trying for

Well that sucks. I wish NF would just make a FFP ATACR. I dont need all the snazzy stuff on the BEAST and definately not gonna pay that price when I could get an S&B or something similiar.

 

[SSG3K]

My opinion

5-25
Dt turret
H2CMR

 

[jtrax]

After some use, I find that none of the above mentioned scopes are difficult to operate and stop on the desired point. I have all of the above mentioned scopes. I prefer the DT, non-MTC S&B. If possible buy the Schmidt and you will not regret it for one second. In my opinion it is the finest scope available. The Premier is nice and has equivalent glass to S&B, IMHO. However, looking at the whole package, the S&B 5-25x56 is the standard by which all other scopes are judged. I spent way too much money trying damn near every high end scope. All of the top tier scopes are good. In my opinion (and many others) Schmidt is the best there is.

 

[blair]

My opinion

5-25
Dt turret
H2CMR

I agree ^^^^^
Of the S&B's I own, only 1 QC issue has occurred, and it was related to the MTC. Jerry Ricker handled the issue flawlessly and the turnaround was less than 1 week.

 

[Pusher591]

I feel like the S&B 5-25 DT will probably serve me best. I'll still do some reticle research.

 

[jcallan]

I feel like the S&B 5-25 DT will probably serve me best. I'll still do some reticle research.

I had this exact model with the H2CMR reticle and loved it. I would also reccomend the Vortex Razor HD if your not sold on the S&B. I really like the turrets and the quality is great, there is a little difference in glass but nothing that has ever held me back or been a problem. Also they are 1600 less for FFP scope and have the best warranty and CS in the business in my opinion.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I feel like the S&B 5-25 DT will probably serve me best. I'll still do some reticle research.

Good, I think you cannot go wrong with Schmidt and Bender. I personally like the MTC clicks. It is something you get used to. Once the scope is mounted, I had no issues.

I would recommend the MSR reticle. I have used it about 4 times now and absolutely love it. The fine ranging allows me to range my targets to the closest 2 meters!!

Check out the this Sniper's Hide lengthy writeup:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...copes/184755-official-msr-reticle-thread.html

And, check out this video, which is REALLY helpful:

Longrange blog 23: MSR reticle - YouTube

But beware, once you watch the video, you will opt for the MSR for sure.

I purchased my scope from Euro Optic. They have been awesome.

 

[Pusher591]

Thanks Nevada,

I've actually read the MSR reticle thread multiple times and I learn something new every time. It seems to be such a great all around reticle and it makes a person wonder why it's not used more or more prevalently used in military scopes. I would assume its a money issue but big government couldn't afford to pay $200 for a better reticle?

I have some time before I purchase so its no rush. Once I do get get one I will definitely post pictures and my thoughts in it.

 

[Rob01]

For reticles look at the H2CMR. It can do everything the MSR can do but no extra charge and has .2 marks on the horizontal for wind and movers as well as the whole reticle illuminates. Been using one a couple years and it's my favorite reticle.

 

[blair]

Good input from many - my preferred reticle is the H2CMR.

 

[BFD711]

I find the MTC turrets frustrating due to the difficulty in hitting 0.1 Mil past the full Mil mark. Love the DT turrets with a zero stop.

 

[Pusher591]

I find the MTC turrets frustrating due to the difficulty in hitting 0.1 Mil past the full Mil mark. Love the DT turrets with a zero stop.

Looks like that's what I'm gonna go with. Time to sell my shorty rifle. Anybody interested in a 11" SBR AR set up for a suppressor? Have a H1 Aimpoint to go with it.