Rifle Scopes Help picking my High End Scope

[Kyle Kelly]

Alright I've finally saved the up the money to get my first top tier scope and I have down to a S&B PMII 5-25x56 LP MTC LT with the MSR and the NightForce ATACR 5-25 F1 Mil-C. Now the main thing is I can get get both within $200 of each other the S&B being $2900 and the Nightforce being $2700, so are the features of the S&B worth it over the Nightforce or should I just save some green and the ATACR. Thanks for the help.

 

[JR869]

Honestly, my suggestion is to search the PX here and pick up a used one at a good discount and if you don't like it (I doubt you won't like either of them) sell it and you won't loose much if anything.

 

[roggom]

Considering you listed the SB first, seems like you really want that one. At that level of scope you can do too much wrong with either. Maybe check some scope tracking feedback to see what is what.

In reality, you will be surprised how fast you can spend $200 on day to day BS.

From my experience, SB retains value a bit more as they are not coming out with new versions of the same exact scope every 6 months.

 

[SRPowah]

Main difference is the reticle. If you want a floating dot, Mil-C wins. If you want the .2 horizontal for easier wind holds, Mil-C wins again. If you want a more traditional reticle, MSR is nice. Both have a nifty ranging section. If you care more about the scope's functions and glass, S&B is the gold standard but you spend more time looking at the reticle than anything else.

I do really like my Mil-C but if I had to pick either one, I would vote neither and get my Kahles SKMR1 back! A lot cleaner than both reticles above with the same functionality. Terrible answer to your question, but it is my honest answer.

I also like the H2CMR reticle in my S&B, but it is too thick for some people at ELR.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

The Nightforce is an great scope. Good glass, great durability. The S&B is an AMAZING scope. The glass is cleaner, not many will argue that. I haven't ever heard of any durability issues with the S&B either. I shoot a PMII 5-25, so I may be biased, but I, like you, had the same decision to make about a year ago. I went S&B, and have not once been sorry. Can't say anything bad about the NF, but the glass isn't their defining feature.
Reticles are a big deal. I run the Gen II XR. I love it for what I do. If the reticles appeal to you, you won't be sorry you went S&B.

 

[Fursniper]

Assuming youre happy with the reticle, if you don't get the S&B, for $200 you'll always wonder if you made the right decision. Besides, with the S&B you can be assured you're not taking "a step down", with the NF, who knows......

 

[Hairy Biker]

Some good, un-emotional, advice here. I like the PX option and get the S&B second hand and that way you have the product you want at the price you want.

 

[MACHTECH]

Save a little longer and get yourself a Tangent Theta. You'll never ask a question like this again!

Todd

 

[ICU22250]

I would say get the NF, the clicks are too close together on the S&B and I absolutely hated it's eye box.. But, everyone is different in that department depending on your eyes.. I also agree with shopping the PX, excellent deals to be had there for same as new optics. Hell, they're all damn nice optics, it's just nit picking really...

 

[mikey geester]

I had the same predicament and went with S&B. The Atacr F1 Doesn't have Second revolution Numbers on the turret so after 12 you need to add. Was a deal breaker for me. Also the whole ocular housing rotates when you adjust the magnification. I didn't like that. Also reticles aren't my liking in the NF.

Military uses S&B.. that says something.
I vote S&B


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[Covertnoob5]

Military uses S&B.. that says something.
I vote S&B

Military also uses NF, and still uses premier and leupold. Not sure that what the military uses is the best measuring stick. I'd take an AI AXMC over a Remington MSR any day of the week.



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[hk dave]

....S&B and I absolutely hated it's eye box..

Which S&B was this? I've never heard of anyone complaining about the eye box on a 5-25?

 

[ICU22250]

Which S&B was this? I've never heard of anyone complaining about the eye box on a 5-25?

Hey Dave, yes sir, it was the tried and true 5-25 PM II.. It was just too damn touchy, and when I had a solid picture, is was like it was darker around the edges.. It just was not for me..

 

[ICU22250]

It's the only scope I've had to bother me like that...

 

[dirthead1]

I love my ATACR, but it's really a toss up. I don't think you can go wrong with either scope. If it were me, I would probably get the S&B, just because it's a S&B. No wrong choice between the two.

 

[hk dave]

Between the two, choose the one with the reticle you most desire and have at it. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[justme]

I have a S&B PM2 MSR & am Very pleased with it.
I picked up a Cronus BTR for my 300 WSM because I did not have the $$$$ for another PM2 and am Very pleased with it too.

 

[Jeffd]

Check out the Tangent Theta scopes. You will never look back!

 

[WeiserBucks]

Buy what you want, don't get one or the other because of the fan boys . I've had both , they're great. I still have an ATACR, I no longer have an S&B .

 

[79steeler]

S&B glass is just better period. I have the 5-25 MSR and really like it.

 

[Triple D]

Was in a similar situation recently. Have a Razor Gen 2, but wanted something different to try. It was between the ATACR w/ Mil-C or S&B PMII if I didn't grab another Gen2. I just couldn't find a S&B reticle that I thought that I would like for competition use, and I really wanted to test out a floating dot reticle. A Minox ZP5 was in the mix too, but the cam going to the second rev still looks odd to me.

Went with the ATACR mil-c but I'd still like to get a PMII in the future. Atacr glass should be good enough and offer a reticle that I think I'll like more than had I gone w/ the S&B.

 

[Kyle Kelly]

So to answer everyones comments and suggestions. 1. Tangent Theta is a no because it doesn't have any reticles I like and at a $4k price I'll pass. 2. I have seen both on Mil rifles, just saw a ATACR( using a T3 reticle i'm guessing) on the new M40A6 and a MSR which makes me happy and it tells me that guy didn't like the S&B 3. I do like how the S&B is a double turn turret but I also think if you train with the ATACR adding the mils won't be an issue also the ATACR does come with better scope cover (its the small things) 4. The reticles is a tough one because I like both, the optics is going on a rifle that will be used in competition( but I'll only be able to get to a few matches a year) which I see advatages for both reticles the Mil-C is great for doing holds and that fine point dot is an awesome feature. the MSR has the ablity to quickly range and mil a target out.

 

[Kyle Kelly]

Both are a dream scope to get which is why I'm having such a hard time picking between the two.

 

[hamstur]

2. I have seen both on Mil rifles, just saw a ATACR( using a T3 reticle i'm guessing) on the new M40A6 and a MSR which makes me happy and it tells me that guy didn't like the S&B

I'm guessing you didnt serve in the military. Over half the materiels and gear I was issued in the service, I wouldn't buy if I had to choose with my own money!!!

 

[Kyle Kelly]

"I'm guessing you didnt serve in the military. Over half the materiels and gear I was issued in the service, I wouldn't buy if I had to choose with my own money!!!"

Actually I am active duty Marine Corps 0331. And normally I would fully agree with that statment, however when it comes to the snipers they get some really high end stuff espically when it comes to optics.

 

[kthomas]

You are way over thinking this. Pick one and roll with it.

 

[Kyle Kelly]

You are way over thinking this. Pick one and roll with it.

I couldn't agree more man, I think i finally pick one then I second guess myself. I always find a way to make shit more diffuclt than it needs to be.

 

[SRPowah]

I went from Kahles to NF to S&B in less than a year. Don't be like me.

 

[ICU22250]

They are all nice and have really nice glass, all of them in this price range do.. But in saying that, they all have small flaws of their own... In all honesty, you will probably be happy with either one... Thanks for your service by the way!!

 

[Rob01]

You are way over thinking this. Pick one and roll with it.

Yup pick the reticle you like and go with it.

What did this mean in your post? Adding the mils?

3. I do like how the S&B is a double turn turret but I also think if you train with the ATACR adding the mils won't be an issue

 

[Kyle Kelly]

Had the opportunity 9 mo ago to be at an extramural class with Ranger snipers who are now deployed. Saw both NF & S&B on 308 and 338s. Looked thru both and since have bought 3 NF FWIW.

What reticle where they running in those scopes? I'm guessing the T2/T3.

 

[SRPowah]

What did this mean in your post? Adding the mils?

S&B has two sets of numbers on their dial. One for the first rev and a set for the second rev. If you need 18 mils, you simply turn it to 18.

Dialing 18mils on a NF requires you to know 18 mils is actually 12+6.

My opinion is if you are shooting far enough away where you are dialing into your second rev, you probably have enough time to get all of your shit straight before you pull the trigger. With some practice, you can dial while doing the mental math subconsciously anyways.

 

[Kyle Kelly]

What did this mean in your post? Adding the mils?
[/QUOTE]

When you hit the Second Rev the turret marking goes back to zero so if you dial 16 mils the turret will rise to make the rev lines visable and the turret cap will be on 4mils. Not a deal breaker for me like others, again it comes down to training and knowing the system

 

[Rob01]

S&B has two sets of numbers on their dial. One for the first rev and a set for the second rev. If you need 18 mils, you simply turn it to 18.

Dialing 18mils on a NF requires you to know 18 mils is actually 12+6.

My opinion is if you are shooting far enough away where you are dialing into your second rev, you probably have enough time to get all of your shit straight before you pull the trigger. With some practice, you can dial while doing the mental math subconsciously anyways.

Yup I understand that as I have had about 7 or 8 S&Bs but was wondering what he meant as like you said you have to be shooting quite a ways to be into a second rotation and that is nothing to worry about.

 

[hamstur]

Well pick the reticle you like brother! If it matters, EO still has the SB525 (non-MTC) in Gen2XR and MSR for $2649 and 5% discount may apply. That puts a new one at/less than the NF525

 

[Rob01]

What did this mean in your post? Adding the mils?

When you hit the Second Rev the turret marking goes back to zero so if you dial 16 mils the turret will rise to make the rev lines visable and the turret cap will be on 4mils. Not a deal breaker for me like others, again it comes down to training and knowing the system [/QUOTE]

Yeah that's a non issue.

 

[GIXXER2000]

My votes is S&B I have 3, 2 5x25and 1 3x27 and as you would expect the glass is great. I also have 2 Kahles 624i and the glass is also very good and some reviews rate the 624i glass better then the NF. The most important thing get what you want first time so you don't end up settling and hating it. Then buying what you really wanted later.

 

[Kyle Kelly]

I have a S&B PM2 MSR & am Very pleased with it.
I picked up a Cronus BTR for my 300 WSM because I did not have the $$$$ for another PM2 and am Very pleased with it too.

Are you using the rifle with the PMII for comp? if so how do you like the MSR reticle in those situations?

 

[justme]

Are you using the rifle with the PMII for comp? if so how do you like the MSR reticle in those situations?

No comp at this time just shooting steel at my friends place. The MSR worked out great for the unknown distances he would have set up for me.

I have just mounted a Silencer co Radius on my rifle and will be using it from now on to range -mostly for use on groundhogs

 

[jbuck88]

I have both and don't think there is a wrong answer.

I would watch the PX and wait for the right deal. Or EO has some decent deals on S&B's if you want new. Or MileHigh has some decent deals on Nightforce Demo's

 

[CSTactical]

We have some Nightforce Demo's as well Call 916.670.1103 for details.

 

[Wiley Coyyote]

What reticle where they running in those scopes? I'm guessing the T2/T3.

Yep Not sure which as I am not a Tremor fan and called corrections in mils but many of the guys spotting called em in wind dots.

 

[mikey geester]

Military also uses NF, and still uses premier and leupold. Not sure that what the military uses is the best measuring stick.



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I strongly disagree. What the military uses is a great measuring stick. They do extensive testing and S&B has passed rigorous tests and won multiple US military contracts.
Here's a cool little article from accurate shooter. 34 million dollar contract awarded to S&B by the US military. S&B is and has been the gold standard for a long time. What the military uses is tried and true. The best of the best.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...r-wins-34-million-u-s-military-scope-contract


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[Kyle Kelly]

So I went with the S&B guys, Really wanna thank everyone for there help, I will post pictures and give you some feed back when I get it all mounted up, give it some time though because I won't be home for about another month.