Help with 308 full length resize

[11B1P]

I am new to reloading and have hand-loaded about 75 rounds only. I have a Hornady single stage press and Hornady full size resizing die for 308. I set the die height as per instructions, screwed it in until it touched the shell holder. As Hornady recommends, I have the depriming pin about 3/16" out of the bottom. My first set of rounds, 15 with 3 different powder loads, I used Lapua new brass and Hornady 168 amax. All, but 1 or 2 I resized without issue. The one problem was the expander ball got stuck in the case neck and I had to destroy the case. The next set, it was like every 2 or 3 resizes the expander would get stuck in the case neck. I lube outside the cases, even lightly lubed the inside of the case neck. I then bought graphite and brushed inside the neck, but still every 2nd or 3rd case the expander would get stuck. Obviously it is the die, right?? I bought a Forster full size resizing die and set the expander as per instructions (lower 1/3rd of expander below vent hole) and first case, I trashed the internal pin, expander got stuck and the case neck was smashed.

Ok, I know, I know it's not the die. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong here. Other than try neck sizing, any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[roggom]

Ok, since you are using Lapua brass, I would suggest loading a few rounds just the way they came out of the box.

Here is why.


You have not fired any cases in your rifle, so you do not know how far back to push the shoulder. Lapua is some very good brass, but if you push the should back too much, you may end up with soft primer strikes and fail to fire. Then your screwed unless you find a rifle with a tighter chamber. This is especially true with a factory Remington, as their chambers are loose as toothless Brema-ho tweaker.

If you get up to Sportsmans, grab a hornady case headspace kit, and a tin of Redding imperial wax.

Fire your rounds and then measure your case headspace. Then set your die to push the shoulder back .001-.002 from your reading.

As for the expander sticking, yes it does sometimes, but should not be to the point where you must destroy the case. I use the sizing wax on a q-tip and lube the case mouth inside about every 5th case.


If you go with a redding or forster bushing die, you wont need the expander ball. Just some thought.

 

[mdmp5]

Expander balls cause all sorts of problems when the neck is sized too much; increased runout, inadequate neck tension, stuck cases, mangled cases I only use an expander ball with a large bushing in a neck die just to round out the case mouth. I F/L size without an expander ball.

 

[11B1P]

roggom, thanks for your reply:

Ok, since you are using Lapua brass, I would suggest loading a few rounds just the way they came out of the box.

Here is why.


You have not fired any cases in your rifle, so you do not know how far back to push the shoulder. Lapua is some very good brass, but if you push the should back too much, you may end up with soft primer strikes and fail to fire. Then your screwed unless you find a rifle with a tighter chamber. This is especially true with a factory Remington, as their chambers are loose as toothless Brema-ho tweaker.

I will try that. I just read that you should resize all brass, even new. Since this was my first try I wanted to do everything by the book.

If you get up to Sportsmans, grab a hornady case headspace kit, and a tin of Redding imperial wax.

I have a headspace gauge, but frankly not sure what I'm doing with it. The resizing die is not adjustable other than the depriving pin and hence expander ball. I also measured the case length after resizing and trimmed them back. I have a COL gauge that I set the COL from the ogive about 0.002" off the lands. I'm still playing with the length. My first rounds I was just trying to figure out powder load.

As for the expander sticking, yes it does sometimes, but should not be to the point where you must destroy the case. I use the sizing wax on a q-tip and lube the case mouth inside about every 5th case.

I will try the wax and see if that makes a difference. Although I feel like I'm just not setting up the die correctly. I hope that's all it is. Thanks again.

 

[11B1P]

Expander balls cause all sorts of problems when the neck is sized too much; increased runout, inadequate neck tension, stuck cases, mangled cases I only use an expander ball with a large bushing in a neck die just to round out the case mouth. I F/L size without an expander ball.

Hmm, I didn't know you could remove the expander ball. I'll take it apart and see whether I can on the Hornady die. Also, I don't need the deprimer as I decided to buy a separate deprimer die so I could deprime and clean the brass before resizing. Thank you.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Just curious though, what lube are you using?

If you don't believe it is a lubing issue, call Hornady, speak with their tech support...I've had issues with two rifle dies from them being out of spec. One would stick cases like nobody's business no matter what you would do and the other would not actually size the body back to an acceptable size. I've since given up on Hornady rifle dies after owning a number of them and then running into the two problematic ones. Haven't had issues with any of my Reddings.

 

[mdmp5]

Hmm, I didn't know you could remove the expander ball. I'll take it apart and see whether I can on the Hornady die. Also, I don't need the deprimer as I decided to buy a separate deprimer die so I could deprime and clean the brass before resizing. Thank you.

The expander balls usually screw off on most dies. On the Redding dies, which are what I use, the stock expander comes off, and you can pull out the decapping pin. The expander can be replaced with a floating carbide expander or tapered expander. In your case, I would just take the expander out and try it. If your neck tension is too much, consider a bushing die.

 

[11B1P]

Just curious though, what lube are you using?

I started with Hornady case lube, then got Hornady one-shot case lube then RCBS case lube. Also got Forster graphite kit for inside the necks. Then assumed it was the die and got a Forster resize die, but same thing. That's why I think it's just me.

 

[11B1P]

The expander balls usually screw off on most dies. On the Redding dies, which are what I use, the stock expander comes off, and you can pull out the decapping pin. The expander can be replaced with a floating carbide expander or tapered expander. In your case, I would just take the expander out and try it. If your neck tension is too much, consider a bushing die.

I will definitely try that. So, does bushing die = neck size die?

 

[ZombieMonkey]

If by Hornady case lube you mean Hornady's Unique case lube, then I will rule that out of the picture as that lube has performed well for me and many others. One Stuck sucks, it worked fine for me with 223, but in larger cases like the 308 it was a disaster.

 

[No1]

I will definitely try that. So, does bushing die = neck size die?

There are 2 kinds, full size die with neck bushing and neck size die with bushing.
For 308 I use full size bushing die because I only load 308 for autos and it allows me to push the shoulder .003"

 

[mdmp5]

I do not recommend neck sizing alone. It is an inferior sizing method that invariably leads to chambering issues at some point.

 

[11B1P]

There are 2 kinds, full size die with neck bushing and neck size die with bushing.
For 308 I use full size bushing die because I only load 308 for autos and it allows me to push the shoulder .003"

I will look into that too. I was thinking of yet spending more money on a custom resizing die since my 308 is a bolt rifle. AI AX308. I contacted Warner, but they don't make a die that fits my press. But, until I'm sure it's not something I'm missing I was going to wait anyway.

 

[11B1P]

If by Hornady case lube you mean Hornady's Unique case lube...

Yep, that one... It's weird, Hornady has the LNL bushing system, so you set the die length once then lock it in place. The first rounds worked pretty well, just everything after that has been a disaster. Even when I set the length again. Frustrating, I've trashed a lot of good brass.

 

[roggom]

There is nothing wrong with sizing virgin brass, but you do not know how much to size them yet. Too little and you are ok , as you will just meet resistance when chambering. Too much and your brass may become useless. As you may not be able to get them to fire, unless you have a tight chamber. What happens is your firing pin will hit the primer and it will leave a nice dent, but the entire case will push forward. Push it back too far and your headspace will become excessive. Not only that, if you do get them to fire, you leave yourself prone to case head separation(if done several times), as the brass at the web will stretch and thin out.

The regular Hornady die sized the neck down and pushes the shoulder back as well as forming the body, as you pull up the expander ball does just that, expands to accept the 308 bullet. Only thing is it works the brass excessively and can reduce case life.

My advise. Stop loading. Get on the Redding website and read how the bushing dies work and about neck tension.

Take what you have loaded and make a range run. In reality you will just be shooting for fun and fire forming, unless you plan to always use virgin brass.

Get the bump gage, measure 10 fired cases and record your headspace.

Set up your Hornady die for the appropriate bump, that will be by screwing the die out and sizing until you bump the shoulder .001-.002 from your headspace. I suggest leaving the expander in unless you opt to buy a bushing die. if not your neck tension will be excessive.


Lastly remember this, velocity is nice, but not at the expense of over pressure.

Headspace, case length, seating depth, powder drop, neck tension all contribute to pressure variables. Your goal is to remove as many variables as possible to reach the correct velocity, at the most safe and consistent pressure.

No need to get into neck turning, weight sorting and all that(unless you want to), but if you do not consider the basics you will end up making expensive plinking ammo.

 

[11B1P]

My advise. Stop loading. Get on the Redding website and read how the bushing dies work and about neck tension.

You made very good points, but this made me laugh, as that is what I did. I shot all of my first reloaded rounds already, no misfires, no pressure signs. But, after all that on my second batch, I stopped and put everything away until I figure it out. I appreciate all your advice, thanks.

 

[1J04]

There is nothing wrong with sizing virgin brass, but you do not know how much to size them yet. Too little and you are ok , as you will just meet resistance when chambering. Too much and your brass may become useless. As you may not be able to get them to fire, unless you have a tight chamber. What happens is your firing pin will hit the primer and it will leave a nice dent, but the entire case will push forward. Push it back too far and your headspace will become excessive. Not only that, if you do get them to fire, you leave yourself prone to case head separation(if done several times), as the brass at the web will stretch and thin out.

The regular Hornady die sized the neck down and pushes the shoulder back as well as forming the body, as you pull up the expander ball does just that, expands to accept the 308 bullet. Only thing is it works the brass excessively and can reduce case life.

My advise. Stop loading. Get on the Redding website and read how the bushing dies work and about neck tension.

Take what you have loaded and make a range run. In reality you will just be shooting for fun and fire forming, unless you plan to always use virgin brass.

Get the bump gage, measure 10 fired cases and record your headspace.

Set up your Hornady die for the appropriate bump, that will be by screwing the die out and sizing until you bump the shoulder .001-.002 from your headspace. I suggest leaving the expander in unless you opt to buy a bushing die. if not your neck tension will be excessive.


Lastly remember this, velocity is nice, but not at the expense of over pressure.

Headspace, case length, seating depth, powder drop, neck tension all contribute to pressure variables. Your goal is to remove as many variables as possible to reach the correct velocity, at the most safe and consistent pressure.

No need to get into neck turning, weight sorting and all that(unless you want to), but if you do not consider the basics you will end up making expensive plinking ammo.

I would definitely follow the Senior Chiefs advice on this. Spot on. No square needle here

 

[kiwi mikey]

I dont know if it is any help but i had the same problem and destroyed a few shells and even bought a new press before i found it to be the lube. I was using one shot lube but since changing to a wax i have never had another shell jam. Hopefully it is something as simple as that

 

[11B1P]

Alright, so I feel like a dumbass that I didn't figure this out before. Someone mentioned to me that the expander ball could be set too high and the sizer is squeezing the neck around the expander. So, I screwed the pin in farther than what Hornady recommended and resized 25 cases without a hitch. Checked the headspace and length and all was okay. Can't believe it. I guess at least I have plenty of back up lube and back up dies.

roggom, I'm still taking your advice about checking my fired cases. I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[RRG]

I think that the problem could be the die. I too have had problems with a 308 Hornady sizing die. My problem was that it took an extreme amount of force to run the fired case into the die. When a case stuck in the die I boxed it up and sent back to hornady. They simply removed the stuck case and sent it back.

So, I decided to buy a set of 308 RCBS full length sizing die and have had no more problems. With that said,I have no problems with my 223 Hornady full length sizer.

 

[remr5]

it's alway good to have extra lube

 

[roggom]

Good to hear you got it working. Nothing wrong with an extra set of dies, I have an original set of RCBS and also a Redding bushing and RCBS competition seater. The standard RCBS full length is set up for LC brass and 147 pulled bullets, so essentially plinking rounds. The other is more for match grade ammo.

Not sure which headspace guage you got. Remember that SAAMI is the benchmark, but not necessarily the baseline. Many off the shelf rifles are over saami specs for min headspace, and just at or under max. So if using an RCBS precision mic, your fired brass may end up .003 past the zero mark, and virgin may be .003 under the zero mark. In your rifle factory would be a little excessive.

All this stuff may sound tedious, but better to figure it out in the beginning.


Now its time to shrink some groups. Good Luck and have fun!

 

[USMC-FURY]

Had same issue in My RCBS full length small base .308 X-die. Called RCBS n they are sending me their 2nd gen lube, but mine was jacked from the beginning, I even put a new Win case .308 through and shoulder dented and got a little stuck, tried NATO PMJ next and way stuck! Had cleaned it 2x n lubed with hornady one shot then mandrel with hornady wax.

 

[bruddah]

Ok, since you are using Lapua brass, I would suggest loading a few rounds just the way they came out of the box.

Here is why.


If you get up to Sportsmans, grab a hornady case headspace kit, and a tin of Redding imperial wax.

As for the expander sticking, yes it does sometimes, but should not be to the point where you must destroy the case. I use the sizing wax on a q-tip and lube the case mouth inside about every 5th case.

How do you get the wax back out of the neck? Will it not mess with consistent neck tension and possibly taint the powder?

 

[ZombieMonkey]

How do you get the wax back out of the neck? Will it not mess with consistent neck tension and possibly taint the powder?

I wouldn't be worried about tainting the powder as powder/primers are will take more abuse than many people give them credit for. Worries of improper neck tension are valid.

Myself and many others will tumble the cases again after completing all case prep before the actual loading. I wet tumble fired cases for approximately 1 hours, resize, trim, and then wet tumble again for 15-30 min before final loading.

If you are using a vibratory tumbler, you can do the same, just be aware that your media will load up with the excess lube and you will need to replace it sooner.

 

[bruddah]

I wouldn't be worried about tainting the powder as powder/primers are will take more abuse than many people give them credit for. Worries of improper neck tension are valid.

Myself and many others will tumble the cases again after completing all case prep before the actual loading. I wet tumble fired cases for approximately 1 hours, resize, trim, and then wet tumble again for 15-30 min before final loading.

If you are using a vibratory tumbler, you can do the same, just be aware that your media will load up with the excess lube and you will need to replace it sooner.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Theunforgiven]

I have never had a stuck case. When i fullsize i put some hornady lune ( the thick white stuff) inside a small plastic bag with 50 or 100 cases. Then move them around with your hands and you will get them all lubed. And some of them a bit on the inside of the neck.

Once full sized you wash them in water with ajax, and a little lemon shine.

I have a small ultrasonic cleaner that can take 50 cases. Run that for 5 min with the water ajax and lemon and they are clean. Just dip them in some fresh clean water and let them dry in a hot place.

Want them polished, run them in some walnut crushed shells.

My new DIY project is a tumbler for steel media and the same cleaning resolution. That saves me a work loop. It cleans and polishes in one go. And cleanes even better than the ultra sonic.

New lapua brass are good to go. Dont use your shooting time, working on them.