Gunsmithing Help with reamer specs please...

turbo54

Mr. 7mm
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Minuteman
Dec 10, 2010
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I would like a little guidance/opinion on spec'ing a custom reamer...

I want to make a 7mm SLR. My concept is simply a 7mm version of the 6.5mm SLR. If you're not familiar with the cartridge, here is a link to it:

http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php

I'm not counting on this cartridge doing something "magic" that 7mm-08 can't do, but I do see a number of advantages. Here are some of my thoughts/desires:

-162amax @ ~2800fps from a 24"(ish) barrel
-175smk @ 2700fps
-Fit/feed from AW magazines (means 7mm-08ai is not a good choice)
-Use EASILY AVAILABLE and cheap brass that I won't care about if I lose it at matches

The 7mm-08 basically fits all these criteria, but it seems the 7mm SLR has a few key advantages:

-Loaded to 2.950", the bullet shank is north of the neck shoulder junction, it is not for the 7-08 (requires 3.000"). Thus, no worries about donuts.
-30* shoulder allegedly provides a little better case efficiency and is a design element of most of the worlds most accurate cartridge.
-The 6.5mm SLR case seems to provide some extra velocity over 260, that might translate to a little better speed in 7mm, but again, not "counting" on it.
-Longer neck/shoulder angle might make barrel last longer
-Looks a lot sexier than a 7-08

Here is the 6.5mm SLR reamer print:

65_slr_-_long_range_reamer.jpg


After doing some prototyping on the bench, I determined with a chamber that accomodated brass 2.040" long, I would need .170" freebore to put a 162amax on the lands @ 2.950", and .150" FB to put a 175smk on the lands at 2.950". After necking 10 .243 cases up to 7mm and seating a bullet, I found that 9 of the loaded neck diameters were .311" or .312". One of them was .314".

I contacted JGS reamers to cook up a quickie print. What I've got is identical to the 6.5mm SLR reamer print above except the neck diameter, and consequently, the neck length (a couple thousandths different).

My intent was to buy the 6.5mm SLR dies, then bore the neck of the sizing die .020" to allow the 7mm neck to reach the bushing and buying the appropriate 7mm neck bushing and 7mm seating stem from Redding.

Questions:

1. Does it make sense to keep all the body dimensions identical to the 6.5mm SLR so that the 6.5SLR sizing/seating dies will work properly?

2. Does it make sense for the brass length the chamber will allow be identical between 6.5 and 7? Or, should I shorten the 7slr chamber ~.005"? I have a giraud trimmer, so I don't require a bunch of growing room in the chamber.

3. I am not interested in a super tight "match" type chamber. I don't want to neck turn. Based on my 10 cases I necked up and loaded, ought I go with a .315" neck in the chamber - and consequently sort my brass and cull the occasional fat one, or should I bump the neck diameter up to ~.317" or .318" to accomodate anything winchester/remington throws at me? For reference, the SAAMI neck diameter for 7mm-08 is .316".

4. I figured I'd spec out a FB of .160", to split the difference between the 162amax and 175smk @ 2.950". Does that make sense, or should I shorten it a little to give myself some room to "chase the lands"? If I shorten it much, the bullet shank will start to get into the NSJ, defeating some of the purpose of the project.

5. Is there anything I'm missing?
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like a little guidance/opinion on spec'ing a custom reamer...

I want to make a 7mm SLR. My concept is simply a 7mm version of the 6.5mm SLR. If you're not familiar with the cartridge, here is a link to it:

http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php

I'm not counting on this cartridge doing something "magic" that 7mm-08 can't do, but I do see a number of advantages. Here are some of my thoughts/desires:

-162amax @ ~2800fps from a 24"(ish) barrel
-175smk @ 2700fps
-Fit/feed from AW magazines (means 7mm-08ai is not a good choice)
-Use EASILY AVAILABLE and cheap brass that I won't care about if I lose it at matches

The 7mm-08 basically fits all these criteria, but it seems the 7mm SLR has a few key advantages:

-Loaded to 2.950", the bullet shank is north of the neck shoulder junction, it is not for the 7-08 (requires 3.000"). Thus, no worries about donuts.
-30* shoulder allegedly provides a little better case efficiency and is a design element of most of the worlds most accurate cartridge.
-The 6.5mm SLR case seems to provide some extra velocity over 260, that might translate to a little better speed in 7mm, but again, not "counting" on it.
-Longer neck/shoulder angle might make barrel last longer
-Looks a lot sexier than a 7-08

Here is the 6.5mm SLR reamer print:

65_slr_-_long_range_reamer.jpg


After doing some prototyping on the bench, I determined with a chamber that accomodated brass 2.040" long, I would need .170" freebore to put a 162amax on the lands @ 2.950", and .150" FB to put a 175smk on the lands at 2.950". After necking 10 .243 cases up to 7mm and seating a bullet, I found that 9 of the loaded neck diameters were .311" or .312". One of them was .314".

I contacted JGS reamers to cook up a quickie print. What I've got is identical to the 6.5mm SLR reamer print above except the neck diameter, and consequently, the neck length (a couple thousandths different).

My intent was to buy the 6.5mm SLR dies, then bore the neck of the sizing die .020" to allow the 7mm neck to reach the bushing and buying the appropriate 7mm neck bushing and 7mm seating stem from Redding.

Questions:

1. Does it make sense to keep all the body dimensions identical to the 6.5mm SLR so that the 6.5SLR sizing/seating dies will work properly?

2. Does it make sense for the brass length the chamber will allow be identical between 6.5 and 7? Or, should I shorten the 7slr chamber ~.005"? I have a giraud trimmer, so I don't require a bunch of growing room in the chamber.

3. I am not interested in a super tight "match" type chamber. I don't want to neck turn. Based on my 10 cases I necked up and loaded, ought I go with a .315" neck in the chamber - and consequently sort my brass and cull the occasional fat one, or should I bump the neck diameter up to ~.317" or .318" to accomodate anything winchester/remington throws at me? For reference, the SAAMI neck diameter for 7mm-08 is .316".

4. I figured I'd spec out a FB of .160", to split the difference between the 162amax and 175smk @ 2.950". Does that make sense, or should I shorten it a little to give myself some room to "chase the lands"? If I shorten it much, the bullet shank will start to get into the NSJ, defeating some of the purpose of the project.

5. Is there anything I'm missing? </div></div>


1. Dies are always the difficult part of a wildcat cartridge so yes keep the body the same.
2. The brass will shorten up some on firing. How much varies with technique. Leave the length alone but calculate your freebore length from the end of the brass not the chamber. The difference can easily be .030" or more.
3. You need a minimum .003" a side for neck clearence. Tighter than that and accuracy becomes inconsistent.
4. I've come around to the idea that I would rather be a little short on the throat length than a little too long. Order it for the shortest round you think you'll shoot and then if you want to go longer use a throating reamer. That could be a midlife cleanup of the throat. Shoot it short for a couple of thousand rounds and then a .020"-.030" clean up moving the throat forward.
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. You need a minimum .003" a side for neck clearence. Tighter than that and accuracy becomes inconsistent.
</div></div>

Is that much clearance to help with extreme velocity spreads?
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

yes
As the brass ages, even with annealing, you will get variations in neck tension. There has to be enough room for the brass to completely expand and release the bullet. Also with age brass will flow and the neck will thicken at the SNJ. Don't get too tight as there is no advantage in accuracy.
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

Turbo
I see much work n lil gains over 7-08 AI
which would be all but same thing

Not sure what your gaining over 7-08 AI if anything other than resolving bullet OAL issue

Will this do something 7CM wont?

7 shehane still best opt for S/A standard bolt face
IMHO
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turbo
I see much work n lil gains over 7-08 AI
which would be all but same thing

Not sure what your gaining over 7-08 AI if anything other than resolving bullet OAL issue

7 shehane still best opt for S/A standard bolt face
IMHO
</div></div>

Sounds like he's affraid of feeding issues with the AI shoulder is why he's wanting something different.
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see much work n lil gains over 7-08 AI
which would be all but same thing

Not sure what your gaining over 7-08 AI if anything other than resolving bullet OAL issue</div></div>

The AI's don't feed well from AW magazines, and I don't want to worry about losing brass at matches. Also, the 708 and 708ai will have the bearing surface of the bullet extending down past the NSJ.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will this do something 7CM wont?</div></div>

I want cheap readily available brass, that I won't have to worry about losing. Secondarily, the 7SLR has a little more case capacity than 7CM, so it might eek out a couple extra fps, but I'm not counting on it. Thirdly, the 7SLR has a longer neck which might make the barrel last a bit longer.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7 shehane still best opt for S/A standard bolt face
IMHO</div></div>

I am only interested in what I can get to work in an AW magainze - and 284/shehane won't.

I agree that for "maximum" short action ballistics the 284 or shehane would be an improvement. The 7WSM or SAUM would also provide more. However, it is my experience the improvement seem from these hotrods is really only able to be taken advantage of past 1000 yards. At the matches I've been to, the 1000 yard shot is a rarity, and the >1000 yard shot is all but non existent.

I don't see this "wildcat" as being a lot of work. It is going to require the brass pass through a FLS die, which I already do for EVERY piece of brass I load anyway. Do you know something I don't?
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing to add here, just wanted to say I'm glad there are guys out there like you here hammering out the details of wildcats that could become tomorrows next best thing. Better you than me
crazy.gif
</div></div>

No problem!

It's a fun project but probably not going to be the next best thing...

...until the tactical folks start realizing 7mm is king!
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

Often thought how GAPS 6mm would work as 7mm
It runs 115DTAC from mag, cant imagine the 162Amax would be much longer. Ckin data in Litz's book indicates a .013 difference in OAL for 162amax, i would have to dig thru post to get 115DTAC loaded OAL. Depending on OAL of 6gap and how close it is to maxing out mag constraints, seems like it should work thou i havent crunched numbers to confirm.
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes
As the brass ages, even with annealing, you will get variations in neck tension. There has to be enough room for the brass to completely expand and release the bullet. Also with age brass will flow and the neck will thicken at the SNJ. Don't get too tight as there is no advantage in accuracy. </div></div>

I've made the assumption that the point blank crowd's chambering methods were the standard for high accuracy for any dicipline but it makes perfect sense that velocity spreads are even more critical for long range. Before I make another incorrect assumption I better ask... Do you use the same amount of neck clearance for benchrest chambers?
 
Re: Help with reamer specs please...

jrm850

I would say most use .002"+ a side. Any tighter and you run into problems. The larger the case the more clearance it needs. Even the 6PPC guys have gone to larger diameter necks and more clearance.