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Rifle Scopes Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

wjm1000

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Minuteman
Feb 4, 2010
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After focusing the crosshair to its’ sharpest point using the ocular lens adjustment, say at 5 power and viewing a target at say 500 yards, if I zoom to 25X the target gets distorted (out of focus) and can’t be cleared up using just the parallax adjustment, I have to use the ocular lens adjustment to get things in focus again. If I go to some intermediate power I have to redo the process all over again. Is this normal? I have several Nightforce scopes and don’t have this problem.
I also noticed that when changing power from high power to lower power the field of view increases as it should, however at around 8 power it starts decreases in size and continues to do so down to 5 power. Is this normal?
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

After setting the reticle, I like to do it at about 20x so I can see the reticle good, and getting it in focus you should not have to touch the ocular adjustment. It shouldn't effect the parallax adjustment or if the target is in focus as the ocular only focuses the reticle.

The FOV will stay the same from about 7x and down to 5x. That is normal.
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

When you adjust your ocular to focus in the reticle set your magnification to 25X.
As for your issue with the field of view, yes this is normal on S&B scopes.
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

I'm not sure if I'm reading the post right, but it seems you're adjusting the reticle while looking at a target. The problem with this is that eyes will refocus and readjust for the target and give a false reading for the reticle. Instead, try looking at a clear sky or a well lit wall in the house at max magnification.
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

No, I focus the reticle looking at the sky or blank wall of somekind.
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

All good suggestions. Max power, paralax set to infinity, and blank blue sky.. I also do not look down the scope the entire time, I take a ton of short breaks and focus on something nearby then look again to help me stop my eyes from subconsciously allowing them to focus when the ret is not perfect. I also found repeating this at night when it's overcast (so you're peering in darkness) with the illumination on helped me refine it even more.
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wjm1000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After focusing the crosshair to its’ sharpest point using the ocular lens adjustment, say at 5 power and viewing a target at say 500 yards, if I zoom to 25X the target gets distorted (out of focus) and can’t be cleared up using just the parallax adjustment, I have to use the ocular lens adjustment to get things in focus again. If I go to some intermediate power I have to redo the process all over again. Is this normal? I have several Nightforce scopes and don’t have this problem.</div></div>
It sounds as if you either didn't take the time to properly adjust the ocular/eyepiece for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">your</span></span> eye, or that you do not know how to correctly adjust the ocular/eyepiece. Correct adjustment of the ocular/eyepiece is very important and should be done after the scope is positioned for best eye relief.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Adjustable Parallax models should always be set to <span style="font-style: italic">"Infinity"</span> prior to adjusting the eyepiece (the "Infinity" setting looks like an elongated, horizontal "figure eight"). Variable magnification models should be set to highest magnification.</span>

Below is the correct procedure for Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece) adjustment for both fixed and variable power scopes. The procedure is the same regardless of scope manufacturer, or whether the objective/parallax focus is on the objective ring or is a side focus type.

<span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> If the scope is a fixed power unit skip steps 1 and 2 as they do not apply.

(1) Turn the magnification ring to maximum (highest power).

(2) Turn the Parallax focus to "Infinity" (the symbol for Infinity looks like a figure eight). <span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> Most non-side focus scopes use a ring on the objective bell to adjust parallax, and the distances are usually numbered. Side focus parallax adjustment knobs may or may not have distances marked.

(3) Turn the ocular bell/eyepiece all the way in.

(4) Aim the scope at a cloudless section of the sky (you don't want anything except sky in the view, or else your eye will naturally attempt to focus on the object in the view beyond the reticle.

(5) Look at something nearby, but not too close, then look through the scope at the reticle. If the reticle is out-of-focus turn it a bit to begin to focusing the reticle, but look away from the scope. <span style="font-weight: bold">Never look at the reticle for more than a couple of seconds when adjusting the eyepiece</span> (if you look at the reticle for more than a second or two your eye will naturally begin to adjust to bring the reticle into focus - and you don't want this to happen. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">You want to be able to look through the scope and see a sharply focused reticle immediately with your eye relaxed</span></span>. This cannot be achieved by continuously looking through the scope and turning the eyepiece into focus in one continous motion because your eye will have already begun to adjust.

<span style="font-style: italic">Remember, look away every few seconds and make small adjustments to dial-in the Ocular/Eyepiece focus.</span> Once you have achieved this, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, <span style="font-style: italic">except to maintain sharp reticle focus</span> as your vision changes over time <span style="font-style: italic">(it always does).</span> You may want to put a pen mark on the eyepiece indexed to the index dot on the scope tube - if the tube doesn't have an index mark use a pencil. That way, if someone else shoots your rifle and adjusts the Ocular you know where to return the adjustment to.

However, if you still cannot achieve simultaneous reticle and image focus after following the above directions for Eyepiece/Ocular Focus, it is <span style="font-style: italic">possible</span> that there is a problem with the scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wjm1000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also noticed that when changing power from high power to lower power the field of view increases as it should, however at around 8 power it starts decreases in size and continues to do so down to 5 power. Is this normal?
</div></div>
This effect is called <span style="font-style: italic">"tunnelling"</span>, and is "normal" on the S & B 5-25X.


Keith
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

wjm1000,
Only after you have tried everything that has been said above- especially setting your diopter on high power and following Aries64 adjusting procedure should you even think about this.

Getting the reticle to be in focus at both high power and low power is a tricky procedure. Since it is done by a human there is a possibility that an error could have occured and the erector was not collimated correctly.
PLEASE, PLEASE don't rush off and think this is the issue as I have been to the S&B factory and know that only the best technicians are allowed to collimate the systems.
I bring this up as only a last resort as I have seen it happen, but it is VERY rare.

Good Luck,
Paul
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

Thanks for all the good information!

I don't have a problem with the cross-hair going out of focus when power is changed, it's with the target going out of focus and the parallax adjustment not clearing it up
 
Re: Help with Schmidt & Bender PMll 5-25X56

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wjm1000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the good information!</div></div>
You're welcome.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wjm1000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a problem with the cross-hair going out of focus when power is changed, it's with the target going out of focus and the parallax adjustment not clearing it up </div></div>
The question is - did you adjust your scope <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">the exact way I described in my earlier reply to you?</span></span>. Not to be a know-it-all, but if the answer is "no", then you have not had the ocular/eyepiece/diopter setting correctly set the entire time that you have been using the scope.

The fact that you stated <span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="color: #FF0000">"I have to use the ocular lens adjustment to get things in focus again. If I go to some intermediate power I have to redo the process all over again"</span></span> leads me to believe that the diopter is not correctly set for <span style="font-style: italic">your</span> eye. Once correctly adjusted for <span style="font-style: italic">your eye</span>, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, except to compensate for vision changes over time.

If you had indeed adjusted your S & B's diopter/ocular/eyepiece the exact way I described earlier and you still experienced the issue you described, then you had it correctly set and have my apologies for beating you over the head with the procedure (which <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> THE correct way to do it).

Its' just much more plausible that the ocular is incorrectly set than, as <span style="font-style: italic">Plange</span> mentioned, the scope having an incorrectly-collimated erector. <span style="font-style: italic">Plange</span> is in the industry and he has much more knowledge than I do about scopes.


Keith