Rifle Scopes High End Show Down.
- Thread starter CK_32
- Start date
Re: High End Show Down.
have a look here mate
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=170220&page=1
search is your friend
have a look here mate
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=170220&page=1
search is your friend
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iv never seen them put head to head just that they blow the other guys out of the water..</div></div>
Then you haven't learned the beauty of the search function.
However, just because I'm bored, in order that I'd rate them.
Hensoldt (Zeiss)
S&B
Premier
Vortex Razor HD
Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iv never seen them put head to head just that they blow the other guys out of the water..</div></div>
Then you haven't learned the beauty of the search function.
However, just because I'm bored, in order that I'd rate them.
Hensoldt (Zeiss)
S&B
Premier
Vortex Razor HD
Nightforce
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Night force.
Zeiss.
S&B.
Which is top dog???
Iv never seen them put head to head <span style="font-weight: bold">just that they blow the other guys out of the water</span>.. </div></div>
I would love to see a NF blow a USO out of the water. And its clear that you didnt even attempt to search this matter. It has only been covered...oh I dont know, a billion times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Night force.
Zeiss.
S&B.
Which is top dog???
Iv never seen them put head to head <span style="font-weight: bold">just that they blow the other guys out of the water</span>.. </div></div>
I would love to see a NF blow a USO out of the water. And its clear that you didnt even attempt to search this matter. It has only been covered...oh I dont know, a billion times.
Re: High End Show Down.
Your question gets asked about once a week on SH. "Top Dog" for what? NF is probably top dog in performance/cost; Zeiss has the best optics of the three; and I prefer S&B turrets over the others. It depends on what you're using the scope for and what aspect you value most in performance.
Your question gets asked about once a week on SH. "Top Dog" for what? NF is probably top dog in performance/cost; Zeiss has the best optics of the three; and I prefer S&B turrets over the others. It depends on what you're using the scope for and what aspect you value most in performance.
Re: High End Show Down.
While I tend to agree with Jason most of the time, I strongly disagree with the placment of the Razor above NF and the complete neglect of USO.
I would put it more like
Hensoldt
S&B
Blank <slot reserved for PR if they are still around in 2 years and still going strong
USO
NF
Razor HD
While I tend to agree with Jason most of the time, I strongly disagree with the placment of the Razor above NF and the complete neglect of USO.
I would put it more like
Hensoldt
S&B
Blank <slot reserved for PR if they are still around in 2 years and still going strong
USO
NF
Razor HD
Re: High End Show Down.
LOL, sorry to have offended you USMCj
Never owned or looked through a USO, they just don't do it for me, so couldn't list them with no experience. Maybe should have been an asterisk.
The Razor imho has better glass than the NF and more bang for the buck as well, but of course we'll have to see how they hold up over time which is a proven thing with the NF.
LOL, sorry to have offended you USMCj
Never owned or looked through a USO, they just don't do it for me, so couldn't list them with no experience. Maybe should have been an asterisk.
The Razor imho has better glass than the NF and more bang for the buck as well, but of course we'll have to see how they hold up over time which is a proven thing with the NF.
Re: High End Show Down.
No offence taken Jason, like I said, I see eye to eye with you on most things, but not this one. IMHO both the PR and RAZOR have to be left out of the list (or at least a astrisk) due to them not being proven and no solid proof that the companies will be here in a couple of years. With Hensoldt, S&B, USO and NF you can be sure these companies are here to stay, so your investment is safe.
Again, this is just IMHO.
No offence taken Jason, like I said, I see eye to eye with you on most things, but not this one. IMHO both the PR and RAZOR have to be left out of the list (or at least a astrisk) due to them not being proven and no solid proof that the companies will be here in a couple of years. With Hensoldt, S&B, USO and NF you can be sure these companies are here to stay, so your investment is safe.
Again, this is just IMHO.
Re: High End Show Down.
I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.
On a side, I've been bored lately so have been going to USO's site trying to assemble a scope that compares strongly with the S&B, NF F1, and PH in price and features.
Have any of you tried this? What did you come up with?
I'm finding I can get REALLY close until I add the illumination.
I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.
On a side, I've been bored lately so have been going to USO's site trying to assemble a scope that compares strongly with the S&B, NF F1, and PH in price and features.
Have any of you tried this? What did you come up with?
I'm finding I can get REALLY close until I add the illumination.
Re: High End Show Down.
Sorry.
Didn't mean to step on any toes..
Didn't even cross my mind to use the search.
But I didn't mean to leave USO.. Premier.. and others out
I just used the 3 as a example of the top dollar optics.
Sorry.
Didn't mean to step on any toes..
Didn't even cross my mind to use the search.
But I didn't mean to leave USO.. Premier.. and others out
I just used the 3 as a example of the top dollar optics.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
You can get a Razor with rings from a SH.com vendor or two for less than the F1. Plus, I prefer the heavier reticle and 20X on the top end to the F1 by a wide margin.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
You can get a Razor with rings from a SH.com vendor or two for less than the F1. Plus, I prefer the heavier reticle and 20X on the top end to the F1 by a wide margin.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would put it more like
Hensoldt
S&B
Blank <slot reserved for PR if they are still around in 2 years and still going strong
USO
NF
Razor HD </div></div>
While I've never had or shot a Hensoldt, I'd have to agree with the rest. I left Leupold for NF, and NF for USO. I just can't give up the USOs, despite the weight, as they do everything I want a scope to do(FFP, Clear, great reticles, the best turrets) and they don't do things I don't want them to (like break).
I'd like to trade one of my TPALs for Premier (simply for more mag), but cannot generate any interest. And like you said, the longevity of the company, whether justified or not, always comes into question. I have no concerns about USOs future, their CS, or their clickers!
And like everyone else said, do a search. Just a beat to death topic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would put it more like
Hensoldt
S&B
Blank <slot reserved for PR if they are still around in 2 years and still going strong
USO
NF
Razor HD </div></div>
While I've never had or shot a Hensoldt, I'd have to agree with the rest. I left Leupold for NF, and NF for USO. I just can't give up the USOs, despite the weight, as they do everything I want a scope to do(FFP, Clear, great reticles, the best turrets) and they don't do things I don't want them to (like break).
I'd like to trade one of my TPALs for Premier (simply for more mag), but cannot generate any interest. And like you said, the longevity of the company, whether justified or not, always comes into question. I have no concerns about USOs future, their CS, or their clickers!
And like everyone else said, do a search. Just a beat to death topic.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
You can get a Razor with rings from a SH.com vendor or two for less than the F1. Plus, I prefer the heavier reticle and 20X on the top end to the F1 by a wide margin. </div></div>
My eyes are really good so 15x is plenty for me.... right now I'm using a 3-9x.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
You can get a Razor with rings from a SH.com vendor or two for less than the F1. Plus, I prefer the heavier reticle and 20X on the top end to the F1 by a wide margin. </div></div>
My eyes are really good so 15x is plenty for me.... right now I'm using a 3-9x.
Re: High End Show Down.
I would say you can go wrong with any of these scopes
If you own an oil field, buy all means buy a hensoldt
If your an average joe looking forward something good, but at a good price, try the nightforce
All jokes aside, they are all great scope and if you own one it means you take your optics seriously
I would say you can go wrong with any of these scopes
If you own an oil field, buy all means buy a hensoldt
If your an average joe looking forward something good, but at a good price, try the nightforce
All jokes aside, they are all great scope and if you own one it means you take your optics seriously
Re: High End Show Down.
I havent tried a Hensoldt, but based on reviews they are top notch.
I have owned USO, Premier, Schmidt and Nightforce. Of those, it is pretty close between USO and Schmidt as being my favorite. But, honestly, it is like picking between a hot blonde and a hot brunette. You aint got a chance of getting fucked either way, LOL.
I havent tried a Hensoldt, but based on reviews they are top notch.
I have owned USO, Premier, Schmidt and Nightforce. Of those, it is pretty close between USO and Schmidt as being my favorite. But, honestly, it is like picking between a hot blonde and a hot brunette. You aint got a chance of getting fucked either way, LOL.
Re: High End Show Down.
The best scope is the one that most closely suits your shooting requirements. If you never shoot in low light or over 600 yards, then a Super Sniper 3-9X would be better than most I can think of. I know that having used one of those and my NF and Premier scopes, one thing I won't settle for is poor tracking. However, all the ones mentioned so far have good-enough to excellent glass and general reliability. Beyond that, it's so subjective to each person and what you're doing with the scope. Sure, I'll take a Hensoldt...if I can use your money.
The best scope is the one that most closely suits your shooting requirements. If you never shoot in low light or over 600 yards, then a Super Sniper 3-9X would be better than most I can think of. I know that having used one of those and my NF and Premier scopes, one thing I won't settle for is poor tracking. However, all the ones mentioned so far have good-enough to excellent glass and general reliability. Beyond that, it's so subjective to each person and what you're doing with the scope. Sure, I'll take a Hensoldt...if I can use your money.
Re: High End Show Down.
Of the scopes I own or have owned I rate them this way, though its truely a toss up between the S&B and NXS.
S&B
NXS
USO
SS 10X HD
Leupold
I would love to try a Hendsolt, and will give a Razor a try. At this point in time I wouldnt take a Premier if you gave it to me.
Of the scopes I own or have owned I rate them this way, though its truely a toss up between the S&B and NXS.
S&B
NXS
USO
SS 10X HD
Leupold
I would love to try a Hendsolt, and will give a Razor a try. At this point in time I wouldnt take a Premier if you gave it to me.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
While I like my F1 for the most part, I actually consider the inclusion of rings to be a negative. I don't want their rings and would rather I was not forced to pay for a pair in order to buy the scope. I would much prefer they reduced the price of the scope and let me buy the rings I want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
While I like my F1 for the most part, I actually consider the inclusion of rings to be a negative. I don't want their rings and would rather I was not forced to pay for a pair in order to buy the scope. I would much prefer they reduced the price of the scope and let me buy the rings I want.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
While I like my F1 for the most part, I actually consider the inclusion of rings to be a negative. I don't want their rings and would rather I was not forced to pay for a pair in order to buy the scope. I would much prefer they reduced the price of the scope and let me buy the rings I want.
</div></div>
Agreed, I was simply pointing out that if you add rings to the RZR (which are sometimes hard to find I hear) or take them away from the F1 then they would be closer to the same price point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the RZR came with rings it might give the F1 a run. But since the F1 comes with the rings and has that NF track record it places firmly ahead of the Vortex RZR.</div></div>
While I like my F1 for the most part, I actually consider the inclusion of rings to be a negative. I don't want their rings and would rather I was not forced to pay for a pair in order to buy the scope. I would much prefer they reduced the price of the scope and let me buy the rings I want.
</div></div>
Agreed, I was simply pointing out that if you add rings to the RZR (which are sometimes hard to find I hear) or take them away from the F1 then they would be closer to the same price point.
Re: High End Show Down.
The only losers in this kind of <span style="font-style: italic">"high end showdown"</span> are the people that chase one brand only to switch to another. We see tons of guys on here spending money for money's sake to simply <span style="font-style: italic">"say"</span> they have <span style="font-style: italic">"owned"</span> all of the above scopes, but have barely <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">"used"</span></span> them.
Detail what <span style="text-decoration: underline">"features"</span> are important to you, so what that means is, ask yourself what <span style="text-decoration: underline">your</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">personal mission</span></span> will be with that rifle and scope combination.
Is it an F Class cross-over, a tactical competition rifle, a hunting cross-bred, or is it to be a tacticool - mr tactifool and you want to impress your friends when they come over for drinks. Will it spend it life in the safe, only coming out to say you shot it, or just for show. Do you want to want to spend the most money imaginable so you can dress it to impress, or are you looking to beat the piss out of it hoping to put a 1000 rounds or more down the pipe, rain, sleet or snow be damned.
It matters, because if its just to say, you have it, or had it, then why not just start at the top and work your way down the line like a lot of the guys who talk about high end glass.
And before you get offended, if the shoe fits, wear it, because you paid for it. If that makes you happy who am I to argue with that line of thinking.
The only losers in this kind of <span style="font-style: italic">"high end showdown"</span> are the people that chase one brand only to switch to another. We see tons of guys on here spending money for money's sake to simply <span style="font-style: italic">"say"</span> they have <span style="font-style: italic">"owned"</span> all of the above scopes, but have barely <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">"used"</span></span> them.
Detail what <span style="text-decoration: underline">"features"</span> are important to you, so what that means is, ask yourself what <span style="text-decoration: underline">your</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">personal mission</span></span> will be with that rifle and scope combination.
Is it an F Class cross-over, a tactical competition rifle, a hunting cross-bred, or is it to be a tacticool - mr tactifool and you want to impress your friends when they come over for drinks. Will it spend it life in the safe, only coming out to say you shot it, or just for show. Do you want to want to spend the most money imaginable so you can dress it to impress, or are you looking to beat the piss out of it hoping to put a 1000 rounds or more down the pipe, rain, sleet or snow be damned.
It matters, because if its just to say, you have it, or had it, then why not just start at the top and work your way down the line like a lot of the guys who talk about high end glass.
And before you get offended, if the shoe fits, wear it, because you paid for it. If that makes you happy who am I to argue with that line of thinking.
Re: High End Show Down.
Important to me... in order of importance.
Mil/Mil
at least 15x max mag
The most forgiving in terms of head positioning
price under $2500 before rings and such
Since most of the quality scopes out are available with Mil/Mil and at least 15x then the most important thing is "eye box" and price.... to me at least.
That's why out of this group I'm leaning towards the F1... when I can afford it anyway.
Some have said that RZR isn't that bad, but seems bad enough to mention.
I've owned the PR 3-15 and loved it. I may try an S&B or USO next if I can either find an S&B used or spec out a USO to my price point.
Important to me... in order of importance.
Mil/Mil
at least 15x max mag
The most forgiving in terms of head positioning
price under $2500 before rings and such
Since most of the quality scopes out are available with Mil/Mil and at least 15x then the most important thing is "eye box" and price.... to me at least.
That's why out of this group I'm leaning towards the F1... when I can afford it anyway.
Some have said that RZR isn't that bad, but seems bad enough to mention.
I've owned the PR 3-15 and loved it. I may try an S&B or USO next if I can either find an S&B used or spec out a USO to my price point.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on what you're using the scope for and what aspect you value most in performance. </div></div>
Couldn't agree more. A scope is a tool. You have to consider it's intended purpose. When you are talking top optics they all have strengths and weaknesses. The Hendsoldt is considered top shelf glass but it is weak on features. The USO has every feature you can think of but does not have S&B or Hendsoldt glass. At the end of the day the BEST scope is the one that fits a specific task the best. I'll give an example.
Here is what i wanted in a scope.
(1) Bulletproof tracking
(2) Moa/Moa
(3) An Moa reticle in 1 moa increments
(4) More than 10 Moa per revolution
(5) Illuminated Reticle
(6) At least 15x
(7) Good glass
(8) Light Weight
(9) Side parrallax adjust
(10) Durable
(11) 1/4 moa adjustments
And this is why. I wanted to build a 1 rifle does it all. I hunt alot, do tactical competitions, and F-Class. If you hunt you want a scope that is rugged, light, repeatable, and has decent glass. For tactical competitions you need a reticle you can range with, Illumination, and it helps to have more than 10 moa per revolution because you can be going rapidly back and forth between long and short ranges; the extra moa per revolution keeps you from getting lost. For F Class you want high magnification (for 600yds my 15x worked great), Top glass is nice, and 1/8 moa adjustments (1/4 works but 1/8 is real nice).
The only scope that met all my requirments (except light, excellent glass, and the abillity to use 1/8 moa at F Class) was the USO T-Pal. I chose this scope because it was the best suited tool for the job. I could have used an NXS and did for years but i would have had to make comprimises, small ones but nonetheless comprimises i didn't want to make. I could have used S&B but the do not have Moa/Moa...etc.
Some people put way to much emphasis on glass quality. <span style="font-weight: bold">IT'S A TOOL</span>, if you want excellent glass get a good spotting scope and binos. Then you can wow yourself with excellent glass all you want. A gold plated wrench can drive a nail but i would rather use a hammer!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on what you're using the scope for and what aspect you value most in performance. </div></div>
Couldn't agree more. A scope is a tool. You have to consider it's intended purpose. When you are talking top optics they all have strengths and weaknesses. The Hendsoldt is considered top shelf glass but it is weak on features. The USO has every feature you can think of but does not have S&B or Hendsoldt glass. At the end of the day the BEST scope is the one that fits a specific task the best. I'll give an example.
Here is what i wanted in a scope.
(1) Bulletproof tracking
(2) Moa/Moa
(3) An Moa reticle in 1 moa increments
(4) More than 10 Moa per revolution
(5) Illuminated Reticle
(6) At least 15x
(7) Good glass
(8) Light Weight
(9) Side parrallax adjust
(10) Durable
(11) 1/4 moa adjustments
And this is why. I wanted to build a 1 rifle does it all. I hunt alot, do tactical competitions, and F-Class. If you hunt you want a scope that is rugged, light, repeatable, and has decent glass. For tactical competitions you need a reticle you can range with, Illumination, and it helps to have more than 10 moa per revolution because you can be going rapidly back and forth between long and short ranges; the extra moa per revolution keeps you from getting lost. For F Class you want high magnification (for 600yds my 15x worked great), Top glass is nice, and 1/8 moa adjustments (1/4 works but 1/8 is real nice).
The only scope that met all my requirments (except light, excellent glass, and the abillity to use 1/8 moa at F Class) was the USO T-Pal. I chose this scope because it was the best suited tool for the job. I could have used an NXS and did for years but i would have had to make comprimises, small ones but nonetheless comprimises i didn't want to make. I could have used S&B but the do not have Moa/Moa...etc.
Some people put way to much emphasis on glass quality. <span style="font-weight: bold">IT'S A TOOL</span>, if you want excellent glass get a good spotting scope and binos. Then you can wow yourself with excellent glass all you want. A gold plated wrench can drive a nail but i would rather use a hammer!
Re: High End Show Down.
I disagree on your assessment of glass, but maybe its just my eyes.
I dont see much difference at all in glass quality between any of the quality brands. Definitely not enough difference for it to be a deciding factor.
I disagree on your assessment of glass, but maybe its just my eyes.
I dont see much difference at all in glass quality between any of the quality brands. Definitely not enough difference for it to be a deciding factor.
Re: High End Show Down.
maybe, or perhaps inconsistent results with different scopes. I do have 20/15 vision so maybe my eyes are a little more sensitive than some. The Premier i looked through had eye popping edge to edge clarity. As good as the USO's are i couldn't say the same.
maybe, or perhaps inconsistent results with different scopes. I do have 20/15 vision so maybe my eyes are a little more sensitive than some. The Premier i looked through had eye popping edge to edge clarity. As good as the USO's are i couldn't say the same.
Re: High End Show Down.
I have a couple of the zeiss and a premier to go along with plenty of leupy's. I have used nightforce and have looked through s&b and uso. I liked them all but decided on the Premier. I would have gone for the hensoldt but did not think that the very slight diff in ability of the scope would be worth that much extra coin. I like the s&b but did not think there was a diff in quality or glass. At the time I bought my premier, it was way less then the s&b. Now, I would might try one because the cost is about the same now from best I can tell, used anyways. I still love my premier and think that it is as good as any other out there and would by another if the right used price came up. I could afford to by a 3k scope but find it hard to do when my life does not depend on it and some of the other ones that I could get would match up just as well as that 3k scope, read nightforce, zeiss or used premier.
I have a couple of the zeiss and a premier to go along with plenty of leupy's. I have used nightforce and have looked through s&b and uso. I liked them all but decided on the Premier. I would have gone for the hensoldt but did not think that the very slight diff in ability of the scope would be worth that much extra coin. I like the s&b but did not think there was a diff in quality or glass. At the time I bought my premier, it was way less then the s&b. Now, I would might try one because the cost is about the same now from best I can tell, used anyways. I still love my premier and think that it is as good as any other out there and would by another if the right used price came up. I could afford to by a 3k scope but find it hard to do when my life does not depend on it and some of the other ones that I could get would match up just as well as that 3k scope, read nightforce, zeiss or used premier.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the PR and RAZOR have to be left out of the list (or at least a astrisk) due to them not being proven and no solid proof that the companies will be here in a couple of years </div></div>
PR has been around for a long time and didn't the USMC just tested the shit out of the PR 3-15x and choose it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the PR and RAZOR have to be left out of the list (or at least a astrisk) due to them not being proven and no solid proof that the companies will be here in a couple of years </div></div>
PR has been around for a long time and didn't the USMC just tested the shit out of the PR 3-15x and choose it?
Re: High End Show Down.
Not for nothing, but didn't the USMC choose Unertl also?
So I doubt that the Corps' pick is a highly predictive of tenure of production and support.
All I have to say is I've seen all the listed scope hold the position of "best there is" here on the 'hide, and what I doubt we will ever see is an agreement on which is best. Probably because we are humans an have complex subjective experience that is confounded by mass psychology.
Oh, and I just think jasonk has an aversion to any scopes built by guys in flip flops.....
Not for nothing, but didn't the USMC choose Unertl also?
So I doubt that the Corps' pick is a highly predictive of tenure of production and support.
All I have to say is I've seen all the listed scope hold the position of "best there is" here on the 'hide, and what I doubt we will ever see is an agreement on which is best. Probably because we are humans an have complex subjective experience that is confounded by mass psychology.
Oh, and I just think jasonk has an aversion to any scopes built by guys in flip flops.....
Re: High End Show Down.
Truly the asterisk factor was a part of my thought process when making my personal choice.
Truly the asterisk factor was a part of my thought process when making my personal choice.
Re: High End Show Down.
CK 32, don't worry. 6 more posts and you'll be able to unload your gear. What kind of scope do YOU own?
These scope vs. scope questions are really getting old. By what you can afford and hope its what YOU REALLY want. All the high-end scopes are good.
CK 32, don't worry. 6 more posts and you'll be able to unload your gear. What kind of scope do YOU own?
These scope vs. scope questions are really getting old. By what you can afford and hope its what YOU REALLY want. All the high-end scopes are good.
Re: High End Show Down.
I read today that Premier picked up the USMC Scout Sniper contract. Is that correct?
I read today that Premier picked up the USMC Scout Sniper contract. Is that correct?
Re: High End Show Down.
Yes re. USMC contract - they are buying Premiere Heritage. It looks like Premiere is here to stay. And I hope Vortex is here to stay as well.
Yes re. USMC contract - they are buying Premiere Heritage. It looks like Premiere is here to stay. And I hope Vortex is here to stay as well.
I
IsleofGough
Guest
Re: High End Show Down.
yes, they were approved for an engineering modification of the original contract to use PH instead of S&B scopes for new purchases, since the original contract for PH to put their reticle on S&B scopes is ended due to the two companies having parted their relationship. That is not exactly the same as a new contract and does not mean that the USMC is buying PH scopes. But it is approximately correct to the best of my understanding.
yes, they were approved for an engineering modification of the original contract to use PH instead of S&B scopes for new purchases, since the original contract for PH to put their reticle on S&B scopes is ended due to the two companies having parted their relationship. That is not exactly the same as a new contract and does not mean that the USMC is buying PH scopes. But it is approximately correct to the best of my understanding.
Re: High End Show Down.
I wish they would just make a blue one because i like blue and think it would put it on top of the black ones for me
You guys crack me up with the whats best in optics. All of the ones listed are better than most of us need. Just pick the flavor you like best and enjoy it..
On a side note, clarity should not be in the top 3 things to look at. Who cares if you can see a gnats ass at 500yds if you cant accurately adjust to hit the thing?
I wish they would just make a blue one because i like blue and think it would put it on top of the black ones for me
You guys crack me up with the whats best in optics. All of the ones listed are better than most of us need. Just pick the flavor you like best and enjoy it..
On a side note, clarity should not be in the top 3 things to look at. Who cares if you can see a gnats ass at 500yds if you cant accurately adjust to hit the thing?
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vile Mr Bubbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read today that Premier picked up the USMC Scout Sniper contract. Is that correct? </div></div>
You are partially correct. You make it sound as if the USMC is gonna dump all the SB SSDS tomorrow. Not gonna happen, the contract supposedly states that when the SB is "totaled" it will be replaced with a 3-15 Premier, but as of now, there isnt anything on any DOD website or in the system showing that Premier has been awarded any money for the 3-15.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vile Mr Bubbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read today that Premier picked up the USMC Scout Sniper contract. Is that correct? </div></div>
You are partially correct. You make it sound as if the USMC is gonna dump all the SB SSDS tomorrow. Not gonna happen, the contract supposedly states that when the SB is "totaled" it will be replaced with a 3-15 Premier, but as of now, there isnt anything on any DOD website or in the system showing that Premier has been awarded any money for the 3-15.
I
IsleofGough
Guest
Re: High End Show Down.
Lets see:
1. repeatability
2. reliability
3. blue color
4. optical clarity
I guess you are right. Can we start a topic on the top three scope rings now. I would like Badger in Blue.
I get tired of hearing that optical clarity doesn't matter or that most of us just want tacticool scopes to show others. I've personally broken several high end scopes, so the impression that these scopes are better than we are is not my experience. I shoot a tighter group with better optics.
Lets see:
1. repeatability
2. reliability
3. blue color
4. optical clarity
I guess you are right. Can we start a topic on the top three scope rings now. I would like Badger in Blue.
I get tired of hearing that optical clarity doesn't matter or that most of us just want tacticool scopes to show others. I've personally broken several high end scopes, so the impression that these scopes are better than we are is not my experience. I shoot a tighter group with better optics.
Re: High End Show Down.
1)repeatability (tracking)
2)reliability (durability)
3) features (best tool for the job)
-that's what I look for. I have a Weaver T24 on my HP silhouette gun and loking through it is like looking through a glass of salt water. It stays because 1)it tracks correctly-every time out and back 2) it does it all the time, every time and 3)it makes weight for the class I shoot in.
I keep Super Sniper 16X's around for backups because the ones I have had fill the #1 and 2 bills, and as a backup they even fit #3.
1)repeatability (tracking)
2)reliability (durability)
3) features (best tool for the job)
-that's what I look for. I have a Weaver T24 on my HP silhouette gun and loking through it is like looking through a glass of salt water. It stays because 1)it tracks correctly-every time out and back 2) it does it all the time, every time and 3)it makes weight for the class I shoot in.
I keep Super Sniper 16X's around for backups because the ones I have had fill the #1 and 2 bills, and as a backup they even fit #3.
Re: High End Show Down.
You like blue too
not trying to offend anyone, just pointing out a few facts so someone can make a decision on their purchase without the fluff of this is better because i think it is clearererre. I would happily shoot any of those scopes and dont know too many serious shooters that wouldn't or haven't. I have owned or own all but the vortex and zeiss out of all mentioned. I have never not been able to see my target well enough to make precise hits or shoot small group off a bench on like power. Even the Leupold that would be, by most regarded as lower quality glass.
When i look for a scope this is what i look at. All of the decent scopes today have clear enough optics to shoot with. Leupold didn't make the list above, but the optics are plenty good to shoot small targets at 1200yds.
1- durability
1- repeatability (tied for first, i can count)
3- options
4- clarity
You like blue too
When i look for a scope this is what i look at. All of the decent scopes today have clear enough optics to shoot with. Leupold didn't make the list above, but the optics are plenty good to shoot small targets at 1200yds.
1- durability
1- repeatability (tied for first, i can count)
3- options
4- clarity
Re: High End Show Down.
why do people always leave U.S. Optics out..... i'd take a USO over a nightforce any day of the week
why do people always leave U.S. Optics out..... i'd take a USO over a nightforce any day of the week
Re: High End Show Down.
I think i only saw one mention of the March scope, and i dont think anyone really paid it any attention. is this because we're all unfamiliar with the scope/manufacturer or not worth writing about? I've heard the March scopes do very well in competitions despite their excessive price.
I think i only saw one mention of the March scope, and i dont think anyone really paid it any attention. is this because we're all unfamiliar with the scope/manufacturer or not worth writing about? I've heard the March scopes do very well in competitions despite their excessive price.
Re: High End Show Down.
Here is the ultimate showdown (of ultimate destiny):
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WgT9gy4zQA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WgT9gy4zQA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Unfortunately, no mention of Hensoldt, S&B, US, PR, NF or Vortex. Maybe I have misplaced my priorities.
Here is the ultimate showdown (of ultimate destiny):
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WgT9gy4zQA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WgT9gy4zQA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Unfortunately, no mention of Hensoldt, S&B, US, PR, NF or Vortex. Maybe I have misplaced my priorities.
Re: High End Show Down.
I would definately like to get a hensoldt and use it some but still do not think that there is or would be much if any of an upgrade for the cost involved. I have looked through them but I have not used them at the range or anything. I still wonder if they would be any better than the diavari's that I have. I would think that it is the same glass but probably have more adjustments then my zeiss's. Can't see paying more than 1k more for the hensoldt than the Zeiss and maybe the premier.
I would definately like to get a hensoldt and use it some but still do not think that there is or would be much if any of an upgrade for the cost involved. I have looked through them but I have not used them at the range or anything. I still wonder if they would be any better than the diavari's that I have. I would think that it is the same glass but probably have more adjustments then my zeiss's. Can't see paying more than 1k more for the hensoldt than the Zeiss and maybe the premier.
Re: High End Show Down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Night force.
Zeiss.
S&B.
Which is top dog???
Iv never seen them put head to head just that they blow the other guys out of the water.. </div></div>
I don't think there exists a blow the other guy out of the water scope because they all have their strengths.
I'm going to buy some first focal plane high end scopes in 2010.I want a higher magnification model(5-25 type) variable power in mil/mil with CCW elevation.I've also included other high end scopes that are SFP models just because I can
So this is how I'm looking at the high end scope world right now after reading about them for the last couple years.
Warning...This is mostly based off rumor and heresay,LOL, since to date I've only owned NF and USO.I have played with and shot behind most of the high end scopes now though.
I know that there is "nothing" man made that is perfect so any high end scope could brake according to Murphy's law! I also believe that the exact same scope model from any manufacture can be assembled by "humans" that are having a bad day and using occasional out of spec parts.There are lemons as well as nearly perfect specimens.
When I say "good everything" I just mean things "to me" required for a high end scope like accurate tracking,accurate sub-tensions,clear glass,tactile and audible turret clicks,you know...
S&B
Good everything except for some reason I've been hearing about more breakages than any other scope at tactical matches.So it makes me leery to spend the money on them.They do have a place to send their scopes to in America now for repair.That is a big plus and they have good warranty.
Zeiss/Hensoldt
The 6-24x72 SFP is the brightest clearest riflescope I've ever had the pleasure to look through!!! Downs for me were price,SFP,Clockwise elevation. Good warranty!
PH
Good everything but had teething pains with turrets going mushy and some earlier models were rumored to have tracking issues with the single turn model.I Love their turrets!Especially the 1 mil bigger click feel/sound.They raised their price for 2010 though...That changed the game for me with them.I was going to get one with a Horus reticle but they wanted $800 more,ouch! Good warranty though.
NF
I think they are excellent scopes for the money.The glass could be a little clearer,more MOA/Mils per revolution,a revamp on their illumination system and a mag ring that didn't turn the whole ocular.I have high hopes for their new 2010 models in FFP when they come out!!! Likely what I will buy.
Vortex Razor
The one I used didn't have the resolution that my NF had.I was surprised ???? because it had HD glass.I like everything else about it except the big ole elev knob but the best thing I liked was the feature to sight in to "exact zero",big+++++.Invariably when I sight in with other scopes I'm off 1/4moa there or .1 mil here.I hate that! Probably the best warranty on a scope there is.That particular scope was replaced by Vortex,not fixed!
USO
Their scopes are tough as a scope gets but heavy.The cool thing is that you can have them make you one just like you want it.A truly custom scope.The one I have tracks perfectly but the glass was less clear than what I'd expect for a high end scope.Jeff of USO contacted me personally about the problem through email as I had mentioned this problem here on the Hide in a post.I was Impressed!!!! It's already headed back my way next week.On the other side of the spectrum was a friends USO 12-42 SN-9.It was an extremely bright clear scope.USO has a great warranty!
Oh yeah...There's March scopes too.From what I've read they have allot to offer but nothing mil/mil or FFP right now I believe ? also only a 5 year warranty.
take it or leave it,there's my .02
Steve
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Night force.
Zeiss.
S&B.
Which is top dog???
Iv never seen them put head to head just that they blow the other guys out of the water.. </div></div>
I don't think there exists a blow the other guy out of the water scope because they all have their strengths.
I'm going to buy some first focal plane high end scopes in 2010.I want a higher magnification model(5-25 type) variable power in mil/mil with CCW elevation.I've also included other high end scopes that are SFP models just because I can
So this is how I'm looking at the high end scope world right now after reading about them for the last couple years.
Warning...This is mostly based off rumor and heresay,LOL, since to date I've only owned NF and USO.I have played with and shot behind most of the high end scopes now though.
I know that there is "nothing" man made that is perfect so any high end scope could brake according to Murphy's law! I also believe that the exact same scope model from any manufacture can be assembled by "humans" that are having a bad day and using occasional out of spec parts.There are lemons as well as nearly perfect specimens.
When I say "good everything" I just mean things "to me" required for a high end scope like accurate tracking,accurate sub-tensions,clear glass,tactile and audible turret clicks,you know...
S&B
Good everything except for some reason I've been hearing about more breakages than any other scope at tactical matches.So it makes me leery to spend the money on them.They do have a place to send their scopes to in America now for repair.That is a big plus and they have good warranty.
Zeiss/Hensoldt
The 6-24x72 SFP is the brightest clearest riflescope I've ever had the pleasure to look through!!! Downs for me were price,SFP,Clockwise elevation. Good warranty!
PH
Good everything but had teething pains with turrets going mushy and some earlier models were rumored to have tracking issues with the single turn model.I Love their turrets!Especially the 1 mil bigger click feel/sound.They raised their price for 2010 though...That changed the game for me with them.I was going to get one with a Horus reticle but they wanted $800 more,ouch! Good warranty though.
NF
I think they are excellent scopes for the money.The glass could be a little clearer,more MOA/Mils per revolution,a revamp on their illumination system and a mag ring that didn't turn the whole ocular.I have high hopes for their new 2010 models in FFP when they come out!!! Likely what I will buy.
Vortex Razor
The one I used didn't have the resolution that my NF had.I was surprised ???? because it had HD glass.I like everything else about it except the big ole elev knob but the best thing I liked was the feature to sight in to "exact zero",big+++++.Invariably when I sight in with other scopes I'm off 1/4moa there or .1 mil here.I hate that! Probably the best warranty on a scope there is.That particular scope was replaced by Vortex,not fixed!
USO
Their scopes are tough as a scope gets but heavy.The cool thing is that you can have them make you one just like you want it.A truly custom scope.The one I have tracks perfectly but the glass was less clear than what I'd expect for a high end scope.Jeff of USO contacted me personally about the problem through email as I had mentioned this problem here on the Hide in a post.I was Impressed!!!! It's already headed back my way next week.On the other side of the spectrum was a friends USO 12-42 SN-9.It was an extremely bright clear scope.USO has a great warranty!
Oh yeah...There's March scopes too.From what I've read they have allot to offer but nothing mil/mil or FFP right now I believe ? also only a 5 year warranty.
take it or leave it,there's my .02
Steve
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