probably a long shot on here but was thinking about setting up one of my spare lowers as a cmp service rifle and wondering if anybody in here shoots it and if so are willing to share pics of there rigs
- Thread starter 6.5creedmoor
- Start date
Where to start...
Until last yr the only option was an A1/A2 setup, and anything I mean anything that did not fit the exact outline of an issue A1/A2 was verboten.
Then came the cataclysmic rules change of 2016. OMG, they allow OPTICS!
The current rules from CMP and NRA allow any M4 or rifle length forend. It can be an A1/2 or it can be a quad rail; however, if it is a rail at minimum it must have rails for full length at 12, and ½ the length at 3,6,and 9. Sling must be at 13" ±.5 from the mag well on rifle length and 9"±.5 on M4 (carbine) uppers. Sling swivel cannot rotate. Rail covers are OK.
Barrel cannot be over 20" or (I think 20.5 with a standard A2 flash hider, basically the flash hider does not count in measurement so 20 inches of barrel + hider if you run one)
Only A1 or A2 pistol grips
Extended release (like the BAD lever) that does not require modification of the lower is OK
Scopes must be 4.5x or less with a 35mm or less objective.
Collapsible stocks are OK so long as they don't have any adjustment for cheek or buttplate.
Sling is a standard military sling. If you are getting one for your AR get a 54", the shorter ones work on M1s and M1As but not so good on the AR
Don't ask why, it's not going to help you, the rules just are.
The NRA and the CMP are currently in divorce court but the NRA still recognizes the CMP's interpretations on things.
I'll see if I can get some pics of mine up. One looks like a flat top A2, the other has a Magpul UBR and a YHM tube.
Until last yr the only option was an A1/A2 setup, and anything I mean anything that did not fit the exact outline of an issue A1/A2 was verboten.
Then came the cataclysmic rules change of 2016. OMG, they allow OPTICS!
The current rules from CMP and NRA allow any M4 or rifle length forend. It can be an A1/2 or it can be a quad rail; however, if it is a rail at minimum it must have rails for full length at 12, and ½ the length at 3,6,and 9. Sling must be at 13" ±.5 from the mag well on rifle length and 9"±.5 on M4 (carbine) uppers. Sling swivel cannot rotate. Rail covers are OK.
Barrel cannot be over 20" or (I think 20.5 with a standard A2 flash hider, basically the flash hider does not count in measurement so 20 inches of barrel + hider if you run one)
Only A1 or A2 pistol grips
Extended release (like the BAD lever) that does not require modification of the lower is OK
Scopes must be 4.5x or less with a 35mm or less objective.
Collapsible stocks are OK so long as they don't have any adjustment for cheek or buttplate.
Sling is a standard military sling. If you are getting one for your AR get a 54", the shorter ones work on M1s and M1As but not so good on the AR
Don't ask why, it's not going to help you, the rules just are.
The NRA and the CMP are currently in divorce court but the NRA still recognizes the CMP's interpretations on things.
I'll see if I can get some pics of mine up. One looks like a flat top A2, the other has a Magpul UBR and a YHM tube.
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Thank you. The bottom rifle is almost exactly what I was looking at building. You answered main questions if I can run the flash hider with a 20in barrel. So if I decided to use a quad rail design it has to have all the rails on it so keymod and stuff like that are not allowed?
I didn't bother to take pics of mine because it/they are about as generic as you can get, per the rules pre 2016. My base rifle is a RRA NM A2 config with flash Hider and I have a WOA upper with detachable carry handle. The carry handle version was a hedge for me, because it could be shot under the old rules with the handle attached but would allow me to mount an optic if the rules did in fact change later (which they did).
Also not mentioned are the rules on the trigger: which I believe also changed. IIRC it used to be single stage only at 5.5#? But now allows single or double stage at 4.5#
Also not mentioned are the rules on the trigger: which I believe also changed. IIRC it used to be single stage only at 5.5#? But now allows single or double stage at 4.5#
I'm really interested in the optics class my main questions where about the barrel length which xtr answered for me and the other is about the handguards and is there a specific barrel profile that had to be used in optics class
If you google "CMP rules" or similar you can see the exact specs. I think they're on page 32. I can't put my hands on my hard copy of the "old" rules right now, but they don't apply anymore anyway.
What weight and brand of bullet is the most commonly used
you'll want 77+ for the 600 anyway. Another vote for WOA (best bang for the buck)
Most use 77s for mag length in rapids at 200/300, some shoot them at 600.
Most shoot 80s for slow fire single feed loaded longer than mag length.
Some like 69s for reduced recoil in off hand, but if you use those then shoot them in rapids too. No reason to carry that many bullets to the range.
Triggers must be able to lift a 4.5# weight. Geissele is the benchmark.
NRA Rules are here:
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
Most shoot 80s for slow fire single feed loaded longer than mag length.
Some like 69s for reduced recoil in off hand, but if you use those then shoot them in rapids too. No reason to carry that many bullets to the range.
Triggers must be able to lift a 4.5# weight. Geissele is the benchmark.
NRA Rules are here:
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
I'll include this link since you asked about CMP. https://thecmp.org/civilian-stephens-wins-overall-during-2016-presidents-rifle-match/ There is a float tube under the A2 handguards on his rifle.
Always nice to see people interested in service rifle.
Always nice to see people interested in service rifle.
Concerning the hand guard, I believe these are legal to run.
https://geissele.com/12-7-super-modular-rail-mk7-black.html
https://geissele.com/12-7-super-modular-rail-mk7-black.html
What would be a good scope and reticle combo I know the nightforce is the top option but can't afford that right now look for a good beginning option in the 400 and lower range
Re: handguards, pretty much any of them are legal. The Geissele is certainly legal, as is the YHM in the picture of my rifle.
Scopes..
Mine is wearing the discontinued Vortex 1-4
There are a couple of Leupys that will work.
If you are really interested go here:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33593
and here:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32465&hl=
Scopes..
Mine is wearing the discontinued Vortex 1-4
There are a couple of Leupys that will work.
If you are really interested go here:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33593
and here:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32465&hl=
Buy a White Oak Armory upper set up with a flat top upper, with float tube, set up for service rifle.Put some lead in it. Geissele two stage trigger, must lift 4.5 pounds. 1:7 twist barrel, when burnt, replace with Shilen or Kreiger.
Sierra 77 gr for 200 and 300. 80 Sierra or 80.5 Berger for 600. RL15 or Varget 24 gr. LC cases Rem 7/12 primers.
If you want to save a little money, Rock River upper and trigger.
I have a Leoupold Mark AR on mine, about the lowest that will work. Higher grade Leuopold on back order from WOA.
This is good enough equipment to place well at the national level.
Sierra 77 gr for 200 and 300. 80 Sierra or 80.5 Berger for 600. RL15 or Varget 24 gr. LC cases Rem 7/12 primers.
If you want to save a little money, Rock River upper and trigger.
I have a Leoupold Mark AR on mine, about the lowest that will work. Higher grade Leuopold on back order from WOA.
This is good enough equipment to place well at the national level.
I have been shooting High Power XTC since about 2000. Over the last 4 years or so my eyes have been getting worse so I changed to optics last season (NF 1-4x). Going Optics resolves some challenges (front sight focus) but adds several others. I have to say I am very happy with the change as I will no longer have to switch to Match rifle and shooting 1K with the Service Rifle is now very feasible. In the past even with good eyes the target at 1K looked like crap with Service Rifle Sights. I am glad they made the rule change and I hope it results in more people shooting and shooting longer...
Best sentences of advice here and the prescription I followed in 2010.
RRA A2 lower, Geissele Service Rifle trigger and pre-ban A2 upper from WOA
I've started amassing parts to build a High Power rifle out of a spare upper/lower. I had no interest whatsoever but with the rule changes I can run a rifle that can double for DMR matches. With that being said I found a good deal on a Noveske 13.5" quad rail.
Can I just add a sling attachment point at the end of it and be within rules? Or does sling attachment have to be built into rail system like the Geissele?
Can I just add a sling attachment point at the end of it and be within rules? Or does sling attachment have to be built into rail system like the Geissele?
You can just add a sling attachment as long as it is mounted within the distance from the mag well specified in the rules. XTR posted this above.
"The current rules from CMP and NRA allow any M4 or rifle length forend. It can be an A1/2 or it can be a quad rail; however, if it is a rail at minimum it must have rails for full length at 12, and ½ the length at 3,6,and 9. Sling must be at 13" ±.5 from the mag well on rifle length and 9"±.5 on M4 (carbine) uppers. Sling swivel cannot rotate. Rail covers are OK."
HA! Thanks. You know I support the rule change because service weapons run optics now, participation in this discipline is fading, and those in it are getting older and their eyes aren't getting better.
But all that said I really like the idea of shooting irons. I hope they maybe make a separate irons "stock car"/production class.
The other cool thing is for those looking for a quality build competitors are dumping A2 uppers cheap. That FN upper I have was build by compass lake engineering. Round count was right under 500 and I picked it up for $450 shipped. The guy who had it order picked it up just a couple months before the rule change
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Got it! Thanks very much.
I replaced my A2 with an A4, shaved the fsb and run the Vortex 1-4 PST, sold off the lower and use a BCM that has a SSA trigger so I can dual use the lower. This is an Armalite NM, I retained the NM float tube as there's no real reason right now to change it for it's purpose. My end plan is to eventually build an upper, 20" with a rail and have two different scopes so I can have a higher power for "target work when I like and not NEED an "SPR" upper. The rules state that the top must be full railed and the bottom and sides have to be at least 6" of rail-and 12" rail. Unless you buy a quad rail, adding pieces of 1913 can add up so your best bet is to just get a quad. I personally think the 1913 requirement is DaF, I get it, that's what is in service--or so they think.
