When I start loading for my 260 to shoot in tac matches, should I Chase after higher MV or higher BC bullets. Is the ~.510 bc of the 123 scenars that much of a disadvantage up against the ~.580 of the 139 scenars? (Or whatever the actual bc is of those bullets)
- Thread starter prodigalson
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M
milo 2.0
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The best way to compare is with a ballistics program, compare drops and drifts. Shooting both would be optimum. In 6.5, like your 260, I'd take velocity of a 130gr bullet, over say the 140 class, to me there is no gain going heavy. Now if you had a 6.5 SAUM, or a 6.6WSM, why not utilize the bc of the 140's, your velocity is there. But you'll get a lot of replies saying the opposite.
Personally, I thing Berger's 130gr hybrid will change some peoples minds on this. if it'll ever get out here!
Notice, I didn't say "game changer".
Personally, I thing Berger's 130gr hybrid will change some peoples minds on this. if it'll ever get out here!
Notice, I didn't say "game changer".
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In my mind trying to make a "lesser bullet" fly faster is not the way to go.
I read recently that the "form factor" of a bullet has a lot more to do with how it performs rather than just the "BC".
I think of it as like trying to make a poorly handling car win a race by just adding more horsepower.
I read recently that the "form factor" of a bullet has a lot more to do with how it performs rather than just the "BC".
I think of it as like trying to make a poorly handling car win a race by just adding more horsepower.
I understand what you mean. However scenars aren't exactly the pintos of the bullet world (so I've heard). Lmao.
But I'm Pickin up what you're putting down.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
When a guy puts it like this, one just wants to face palm himself for not running the heavy. But as p-son states, there's some quality bullets out there, and with a velocity spread of up to 350fps between bullet weights, a lot of things can happen.
Prodigalson, got a pair of 260's same barrel, chamber etc. Ran the 123 scenars at about 2950 with 43.3 h4350, estimated BC was about .518. Changed back to the 139's at 2830 with 43.3 grains h4350, estimated BC about .565. I felt the 139's were a better bullet for the practical tactical matches, a little less drift at further range. If I could get the 123's moving a lot faster than 2950, then I might revisit them, my loads are by no means hot and I could probably get some more speed at the expense of my brass and barrel life, but they work for me.
Consider the application of your bullet too..
If your shooting a lot of Unknown distance targets for example,
You may find it beneficial to go for a lighter bullet travelling faster/flatter trajectory, to give you more room for error in your range estimation..
If your shooting a lot of Unknown distance targets for example,
You may find it beneficial to go for a lighter bullet travelling faster/flatter trajectory, to give you more room for error in your range estimation..
I do agree with flatter better but with a lighter bullet almost always yields more wind drift. That being said if your shooting f class and a 3" x ring is what your chasing .... I'd go with a higher bc. Less drift cutting winds and as we all know elevation is easy. Wind is what kills. If you know your elevation at 600 your gtg. So go with the higher bc and don't worry about Mv.
My apologies. Just saw it was a tac match
Being a Kansas guy, I can throw out that a good percentage of the time, I opt for the BC because of the amounts of wind we contend with here and we need all the help we can get sometimes in a 25 mph typical windy day on a 1000 yard afternoon. The difference on those 2 I can't comment about, but for 168's verses 175's in 308 it plays a difference. Same with 240's verses our 300's on the 338 at a mile. My luck has been to go with the BC route on those 2 anyways.... Not that it's right, just my experience...
Wind is what typically will make or break your performance. Heavier bullet with a greater BC will be more favorable in wind drift. In a lot of cases you will need to push the lighter bullets faster than you are capable of to equal the lesser drift of a heavier bullet going slower. A slower heavier bullet will still out preform the lighter faster bullet in most cases at further distances where variables such as wind play a huge factor.
Look for the best balance of BC to MV...not one or the other...thats just my opinion.
Here is an example. I shoot a 7SAUM as my main gun. I was trying to decide if I should shoot the 180grn Hybrids or 162 AMAX...right now my 180s are going 2980 fps. To match the 180s BC performance I would need to push the 162s at 3218 FPS.... at those speeds i don't trust the 162s will hold up consistantly and not sure I could even get there...so in this case the 180s is the perfect balance between solid MV and great BC!
both play a role...but you need a balance. Race cars don't win races without great handling...
Also. splash can be something of importance while shooting matches and again the heavier bullet tends to give greater feedback either by sound of it hittng the steel or by kicking up ground around the target allowing you to follow up the next shot with a good correction.
Look for the best balance of BC to MV...not one or the other...thats just my opinion.
Here is an example. I shoot a 7SAUM as my main gun. I was trying to decide if I should shoot the 180grn Hybrids or 162 AMAX...right now my 180s are going 2980 fps. To match the 180s BC performance I would need to push the 162s at 3218 FPS.... at those speeds i don't trust the 162s will hold up consistantly and not sure I could even get there...so in this case the 180s is the perfect balance between solid MV and great BC!
both play a role...but you need a balance. Race cars don't win races without great handling...
Also. splash can be something of importance while shooting matches and again the heavier bullet tends to give greater feedback either by sound of it hittng the steel or by kicking up ground around the target allowing you to follow up the next shot with a good correction.
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My recommendation is to always shoot the heaviest bullet your barrel will stabilize, higher BC is the reason, there are exceptions like 6mm 105 Hybrids v 115 DTACs, but for the most part the higher BC means less wind drift, also less powder may lead to longer barrel life, yall can point out the flatter pill is less time in the air but winners shoot the heavies.
Exactly. Another example would be the 155 scenar vs the 200 Berger hybrid. Which a lot of guys in ftr are running. (200 Berger ). Yes they can push the 155 over 3000 fps but wind is gonna kick its ass all over. Now take the 200 Berger and put it running 2650 ish and I guarantee with a full value wind the 200 will beat the hell out of the 155. Understand that I recognize the fact that everybody has their favorite load. But if you want the best chance of winning go with higher bc bullet. My suggestion.... Get the 140 hybrids with some h4350 and your golden. Bc is .618 g1. Doesn't get much better than that unless your shooting jlks.... I ran a few tests with my creedmor at 920 yards with the 140 hybrid , 139 scenar, and the 142 smk. Scenars shot great. Bergers DOMINTED. 2 to 3" drift while the scenars were 5 to 6". 142's... Not so good. 140 Berger is what I'd be putting down range.
Oh yeah. How far are your target engagements?? If you know you can play around with ballistic computers like milo said and figure out your best pbr. But you'd better know your #'s. 
I ran some numbers on jbm and assuming I can find a node with the 123s at 2900 I'll be facing -28.8 moa and 7.4 moa with a 10mph crosswind at 1k. It tells me the 139s at 2800 will be -29.4 moa and 6.9 moa with the same wind at 1k. I think I'll stick with 5" less of wind drift! And thank you AIMSMALL, I always forget about bergers.
No problem. And good luck with your match!!
Oh and also like Rob said, 2800 with the 139 is pretty light. I'm pushing them at 2830 with my creedmor so I'd say 2880 to 2900 is where you'll likely be at. Again. Good luck
I remember the early days when the discussion was about flat base bullets vs. boat tail ( b.c. didn't enter into it ). then, the criterior was; only if you are shooting distance did the boat tail come into a benefit. All hunting bullets then were flat base because no one would take a shot past, say, 300yds plus or minus. Very few boat tails were purchased. Even now, the benefit of Higher b.c. pays off at distance, not so much at close range. they still sell flat based bullets. there is a tremendous amount of information and technology surrounding this concept. A lot of design difference between bullets and their intended purpose. Even high b.c. bullets of different manufacture have varying ogives measurements, secant shape, total length, slight, or long boat tails. A prime example is berger's new juggernaut design for long distance match work. I am able to extend that bullet far enough out of the case ( much further than the older vld ) to allow at least .4 more grains of powder and still not be crunching the powder when seating. the same weight bullet and it went from 31 moa @ 1000yd. to 29.1 moa, just by DESIGN ONLY! BIG difference. So, the question is; what is each individuals intentions and needs in shooting? There is design for every application.
Well said sir. It truly is amazing how the sport of lr shooting has picked up 10 fold and the quality of optics, rifles , BULLETS ect that has come with the growth of the sport. I can remember when if you weren't shooting sierras you weren't shooting the right bullet.... Lol. Long time ago
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